GWR steam railmotors

[rue_d_etropal]

there are various ways to fit . Treat it more like a diesel railcar. Noone has a problem motorising them. A SPUD could be used under other end with a dummy steam bogie at loco end. It is not a big problem, just needs people to think out of the box, rather than the narrow view many have.

I fitted a an ex Dapol pug chassis on my LNWR railmotor. It is pivoted at the back. the connection also allows some sideways movements. In OO (mine is HO), a simple Smokey Joe chassis would fit in easily. I am not even certain if it actually nedds a central pivot, just as long as it can turn enough within the spaces. This is probaby what I will do with my HO version of the GWR railmotor, using a cheap Mehano chassis, with as much cut off to allow free movement. It might even be loose, so is separate when taken off the track.

 

For anyone who wants to do everything dead scale, then there is very little room for anything to turn, as there are fittings on outside of valve gear/connecting rods which would limit movement. I have seen comments regarding this and the subsequent problems,, but that is wgat you hae to accept to go full finescale, any scale.It wi

l

l be interesting to see how the Kernow/DJ model comes out.

[Jeremy Suter]

 

 

For anyone who wants to do everything dead scale, then there is very little room for anything to turn, as there are fittings on outside of valve gear/connecting rods which would limit movement. I have seen comments regarding this and the subsequent problems,, but that is what you have to accept to go full finescale,

 

 I think you are talking out of the top of your hat. There is plenty of room the fittings on the outside of the valve gear.  They are the pivot!

 From fixed positions on the outside of the solebar with the two beams running under the chassis then sprung rods which connect  the chassis to the beams allowing it to pivot. I intend to build my P4 Chassis this way, that being the case it can be done easily in OO and EM.  Of which I have not done the test builds yet

[richard i]

That looks great. I would be really interested in a oo gauge one once you are happy with it.

Richard

[rue_d_etropal]

 I think you are talking out of the top of your hat. There is plenty of room the fittings on the outside of the valve gear.  They are the pivot!

 From fixed positions on the outside of the solebar with the two beams running under the chassis then sprung rods which connect  the chassis to the beams allowing it to pivot. I intend to build my P4 Chassis this way, that being the case it can be done easily in OO and EM.  Of which I have not done the test builds yetIMG_1941.JPG

I seem to remember someone else actually mentioning this problem on another thread. I might have misread what they said, or maybe they did something wrong.

As I have mentioned before I am trying to provide something for the majority in this hobby, not just the few. I am not stopping anyone with the ability to build a fully working, to scale, every rivet in the right place, from using my designs as a start point. In fact I have found that many very well respected narrow gauge modellers have been very supportive of what I have been doing for them.

[rue_d_etropal]

I found the article I was referring to. Not sure if it is a thread as well, but this is why I questioned the positioning of the steam bogie,

http://www.bpodmore.co.uk/projects/steam_railmotor.htm

 

I had to highlight some of the text as it wasn't showing.

 

And now something for all the know-it-alls here.

I am using Jim Russell's book, but also hae a copy of book by Ken Gibbs. Both use official documentation. Jim russell does say that some drawings are not as correct as they should be.

The restored railmotor is one of the longer ones built to dia R,batch 1140. The earlier version dia O, lots 1088,1100, have some mall differences. Visually the two main differences are single passenger doors and a shorter sliding window, plus water filler flap on the later version. Some of the earlier batch had the later water filler flap as well. That is fairly straightforward, but I may have to do a version, combining double door and water filler cap.

Now the shorter version dia Q and Q1 is a bit more confusing. According to the drawings in Jim Russell's book, the early version lot 1101, nos 73-80, had double doors(photos confirm this), but have the longer sliding window and no water filler flap. According to the drawing in book by Ken Gibbs, again an official GWR drawing, the water flap is on this batch, but the drawing for the later batch  for nos 81-83, have the single door, and the earlier larger windows with no water flap cover. I can not find any photos shoing 81-83.  I suspect I might have to do an extra version of the earlier Q, but still not fully comfortable with the later Q1. Unfortunately Jim Russell only has drawing of the Q, in fact it is printed twice, but no Q1.

Edited June 26, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[richard i]

Inspired me to post the story so far of my GCR version

As previously said if the bogie could be sorted then the rest is simple, just the roof and boiler, crew coal and glazing .

Paint job could be better.

Any kit which saves some of this fight even if not all of it is to be applauded and thanked.

Richard

[rue_d_etropal]

That's another to add to my list. most railways had a play with steam railmotors, and I am gradually finding references to them, and sometimes even drawings, assuming they are OK.

Edited June 26, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[Siberian Snooper]

I will dig out my copy of the GW Steam Railmotor book by John Lewis and see what's in there, but it won't be until lunchtime tomorrow.

[rue_d_etropal]

I will dig out my copy of the GW Steam Railmotor book by John Lewis and see what's in there, but it won't be until lunchtime tomorrow.

Thanks. please do .

I had forgotten about that book. I need a copy myself, as there are more details i need to check. Had not realised it was so recent that the book was written. I aim to produce some of the other rail motors as well.

[Nick Holliday]

I'm surprised you've got this far without the John Lewis book, as it has comprehensive coverage of all the variations with plenty of photos too.  Some of the drawings are only small scale weight diagrams, but there are several GA drawings which provide the detail for a number of versions.

You also get a good introduction to the absorbed GWR railmotors - Taff Vale, Rhymney, Cardiff, Port Talbot and Alexandra Docks, some with plans, so that could keep you going for a while longer.

A book that is often ignored is R W Rush's Oakwood Press one, covering ALL UK railmotors, including Irish ones, as well as self-contained inspection vehicles like Drummond's Bug and Billinton's Inspector.  Plenty of drawings, albeit to something like 3mm scale.  Unfortunately Mr Rush did acquire a poor reputation for accuracy in his other works, but I haven't heard any comment on this one, good or bad, but, to me, they look quite good, and provide a useful starter, even if some modification might be required once photographic evidence has been collected.  David Jenkinson's book on the subject, although rather patchy and inaccurate in places, does have some good photos and drawings, with, I think, Barry Lane's input onto the intricacy of the L&YR units, and Gordon Weddell has provided full coverage of the LSWR varieties, including the LSWR/LBSCR Joint railcar for the Southsea branch.

[rue_d_etropal]

Thanks for that info on books. Getting copies of book by Jenkinson, and hopefully the one by Rush. There were a couple of the pages on an ebay listing, so I think the book by Rush will help a lot. I recognise both the books(well the covers ), but had not realised they had drawings in them. Granted I have only really got interested recently.

Part of the problem searching is names used vary, eg railcar, railmotor, rail motor, even railbus for some non steam ones.

 

I will eventually get onto diesel railcars, and I have both the OPC and WS books plus supplement, bought when first published. Still need a bit more practice before doing those steamline curves!

[Siberian Snooper]

I have had a look in the John Lewis book at the Q and Q1. The drawings and the official photo of Q car No 75 show a large double window and no filler.

Photo of No 74 dated as 13th June 1910 or possibly 13th June 1912 shows smaller double window and water filler. An earlier 1909/11 photo shows as the previous one.

Car No 76 around 1924-26 smaller double window and water filler.

Car No 73 possibly 1932 smaller double window and water filler.

Car No 75 9th May1931 smaller double window and water filler.

Car No 77 possibly between Aug & Oct 1931 smaller double window and water filler.

Car No 78 no date, but near the end of it's railmotor life smaller double window and water filler.

 

Diag Q1

 

Car No 82 1925-27 smaller double window and water filler.

 

So it would appear that the large double windows and no water filler did not last very long in service.

 

Diag's O & R the drawings show large double windows and no water filler.

All the photos (the earliest is dated 1908) show small double windows and a water filler.

 

I hope this helps.

[rue_d_etropal]

thanks. According to Jim Russell, the O's started with larger windows, but later ones had the smaller ones plus filler. The drawings for the Q and Q1 are odd, in that those in Jim Russell's book(only the Q) show big window, but the other book shows Q with small windws, and Q1 with large windows. Odd that drawing for an R shows large windows, as restored no 93 definitely has small windows plus filler. I may have to add another variant for the R, then it is up to modellers to choose.

There is a photo of an O , no 67, with large windows , no filler.

If the R's originally had large windiows, then does this mean the Kernow model should have both variants. Dare I question whether the restored one in early livery, is correct? Am I opening up a can of worms. I have ordered a copy of the book, so I will be looking closely at photos and drawings.

I am holding off doing any more work on the designs till have seen the book(s).

[Siberian Snooper]

I would think that the large window variant disappeared very quickly, as the only photo I have seen with this variation is the works grey photo, all the photos with brown or lake livery have the smaller window and the water filler. I have not re-read the book to find out a date line.

[rue_d_etropal]

If a version existed, even for a very short time, then I will try to do it.It does not cost me any extra, and time to do it is not much. If I don't then someone somewhere and at sometimes will say I am not doing the version they want.

[rue_d_etropal]

Got all the books now. A lot of conflicting info. Pleased I had Russell' book as the drawings are bigger. The non GWR drawings willprove useful, as I am planning a L&Y steam railmotor (both original 1 and 2, and more successful Hughes designs).

Anyway, my O, Q, Q1 and R types are now up and running. Even done versions of the O and Q with the revised water fillers. That is 6 designs. I have not done a version with the gong, as they were only fitted in the late 20s. I can always do some with the gongs, once  have done desogn for the trailer cars which had them.

[Methuselah]

 I think you are talking out of the top of your hat. There is plenty of room the fittings on the outside of the valve gear.  They are the pivot!

 From fixed positions on the outside of the solebar with the two beams running under the chassis then sprung rods which connect  the chassis to the beams allowing it to pivot. I intend to build my P4 Chassis this way, that being the case it can be done easily in OO and EM.  Of which I have not done the test builds yetIMG_1941.JPG

 

Are these bogies now available as a kit..? I have a Mallard GWR 57' Steam Railmotor that is missing it's power-bogie.