Gladiator 7mm Stanier Duchess

[Grasshopper John]

Have you got time off Peter, your really cracking on with this Build, In fact I would go as far to say your giving Ken (Jazz ) a run for his money

[PAD]

Hi John,

Just been taking the opportunities to build when they arrise. Jazz would have sent it to be painted by now.

 

Anyway, got the back plate and top tacked on at the rear and the front bulk head done. I should have added the lamp brackets before joining the top and bottom parts, so will have to put them on after wards. I'll get as much detail on as I can before fixing it to the tank bottom plate.

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

A little further progress on the tender front and rear bulkhead.

 

Here's the coal doors, shovel plate, locker and water level gauge. I overlooked drill the slot to take some brass rod to represent the index, so will do that later.

 

And on the other side the spare lamp irons, lamp cover and fire iron hook.

 

At the back the coal pusher "thingy", exhaust pipes (from 0.8mm tube) and fountain head cover been soldered on and the water filler epoxied.

 

I then tack soldered the bulkheads in place to assist in forming the bends in the sides, but that's for later. I'll remove the rear bulkhead as there are more fiddly bits to add and it will be easier to do with it off.

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

I've now curved the tender side plates at the top and front edges ready to go on later. The beading is etched on and so rather flat looking. To improve that I've

rubbed it down with a nail polisher, and with the abrasive coating being on a soft base, it has imparted some degree of curve and removed the sharp etched edges.

 

A quick trial fit with masking tape showed all is well.

 

After that I put them aside for now and de-tacked the rear bulkhead to continue with the detailing. The oil box and piping have been fitted and a representation of the access panel in the bottom corner was made from thin brass sheet. The hinges should have 4 rivets each but I passed on doing that on such small parts. I did manage to make the catch though. 0.8mm tubing was used for the pusher exhaust pipes.

 

The oil pipes are from 0.4mm copper wire.

 

 

And placed on the top plate. It can now be fixed on and the remaining pipe from underneath the pusher exhaust to the top plate added. After that I can fix one of the side plates on and see how the bunker etch fits.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

With the tank sides bent to shape I added the handrail and pillars at the front and grab rails at the rear. Easier to do in the "flat" and no solder on the outside.

 

Next I added a representation of the support brackets to the top of the sides made from waste etch. They are 20mm lengths with a saw cut about 3/4 through 5mm from one end. This allows it to bend for the curve in the sides. The first two were made individually, then I went industrial making the remaining six in one lot.

 

And in place on the left hand side.

 

This side was then fixed to the tender and attention turned to the bunker, which is a one piece etch with four fold lines. After folding to shape, it was test fitted with sone difficulty due to the added brackets. Slots had to be added to allow fitting around these, but after much messing around trying to fit this, I decided to separate the sides and bottom and fit individually. The bottom plate went in first, then the left side and then the right. Some filing of the bottom plate was needed to ensure it was fitted centrally before adding the side parts, also needing filing to get a good fit.

 

I was then able to build the fire iron tunnel onto the shelf on the right hand side. Again, a fair amount of filing was needed to get a good fit and appearance. Here it all is in place.

 

I had to add some etch strip to the front edge to fill some gaps and further filling and tidying up will be needed around the brackets and fire iron tunnel. The right hand side will be fitted after I complete the detail on the rear and front bulk heads and the coal pusher is added, but the hard part is done now.

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited July 15, 2017 by PAD

[Sandy Harper]

With the tank sides bent to shape I added the handrail and pillars at the front and grab rails at the rear. Easier to do in the "flat" and no solder on the outside.

20170714_191245.jpg

 

Next I added a representation of the support brackets to the top of the sides made from waste etch. They are 20mm lengths with a saw cut about 3/4 through 5mm from one end. This allows it to bend for the curve in the sides. The first two were made individually, then I went industrial making the remaining six in one lot.

20170714_191159.jpg

 

And in place on the left hand side.

20170714_191045.jpg

 

This side was then fixed to the tender and attention turned to the bunker, which is a one piece etch with four fold lines. After folding to shape, it was test fitted with sone difficulty due to the added brackets. Slots had to be added to allow fitting around these, but after much messing around trying to fit this, I decided to separate the sides and bottom and fit individually. The bottom plate went in first, then the left side and then the right. Some filing of the bottom plate was needed to ensure it was fitted centrally before adding the side parts, also needing filing to get a good fit.

 

I was then able to build the fire iron tunnel onto the shelf on the right hand side. Again, a fair amount of filing was needed to get a good fit and appearance. Here it all is in place.

20170715_145427.jpg

20170715_145459.jpg

 

I had to add some etch strip to the front edge to fill some gaps and further filling and tidying up will be needed around the brackets and fire iron tunnel. The right hand side will be fitted after I complete the detail on the rear and front bulk heads and the coal pusher is added, but the hard part is done now.

 

20170714_212558.jpg

20170714_212745.jpg

 

Cheers,

Peter

And then you fill it full of coal!!!!!!

 

But you know its there!

 

Nice job Peter

 

Regards

Sandy

[PAD]

Thanks Sandy,

 

It will have a much depleted coal load so the coal pusher etc will be visible.

 

I suppose that means I will have to put a crew in the cab, with the fireman looking suitably sweaty and knackered after shovelling 8 or so tons of coal!

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

Thanks Sandy,

 

It will have a much depleted coal load so the coal pusher etc will be visible.

 

I suppose that means I will have to put a crew in the cab, with the fireman looking suitably sweaty and knackered after shovelling 8 or so tons of coal!

 

Cheers,

Peter

Sandy

[PAD]

I've now completed the remaining pipework on the coal pusher and made some adjustments to the fire iron tunnel. I was going to put the coal pusher in before fixing the right hand side piece, but that would have made it impossible to solder the rear edge of the coal rave on the inside. I also added a representation of the slacking pipe work to the front bulkhead, and the slacking pipes to the coal raves. The footplate is not strictly prototypical but passes muster as far as I'm concerned. After fixing the remaining sideplate I also added the coal pusher operating lever and rod into the fire iron tunnel.

Here's the completed rear bulk head.

 

And the front. There's more detail to be added either side of the shovelling plate of course.

 

And a view into the bunker from the rear. The slacking pipes are visible either side near the top of the raves.

 

And the coal pusher parts ready to be added

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Scale7JB]

Be nice to put a smoke unit in the coal pusher??

 

JB.

[ikks]

Beautiful prototype..........Brilliant modelling.

Thanks for sharing this build

 

Rgds...........Mike

[Horsetan]

Be nice to put a smoke unit in the coal pusher??

 

Don't give him ideas! 

[PAD]

Nah,

Never seen a smoke unit that looked realistic. You just can't scale down the smoke, and can you imagine the wisp that would come out of such a small hole.

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

I've now got the coal pusher into the bunker, but had to correct a cock up with the pusher links first. The front two are shorter than the rear ones, but there are spares of the longer ones and I used these in error.

 

I only spotted the shorter ones later which can be seen in the photo. I probably could have got away with it as there will be some coal in the bottom of the bunker, but decided to correct things. I didn't want to risk a melt down desoldering so I cut them instead, shortened and resoldered. Not perfect but passable.

First the cover and piston were epoxied and allowed to set. The large ram was than epoxied and allowed to set with the upper and lower rams still loose. These were then fixed with Loctite.

 

Finally for this session the etched rivet strips along the running plate edge were added.

 

It looks like the plates on the back are also riveted, but they are in fact plain and what you see is a reflection of the ones below. Who says the camera doesn't lie?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

Looks like I'm falling into the relegation zone to page 3, so time to post again.

 

I've been pressing on with the tender and have now got the bulk of it done. I deviated from the assembly sequence in the instructions and added the front and rear buffer plates to the running plate followed by the steps. The tender frames were added last after all the half etch and cast details were added in the flat. I have added some extra details by way of the brackets above the springs. These are simplified by fixing them through a hole drilled in the frame, rather than making a twist and second bend and soldering to the face of the frame. Quicker and easier to do and more robust.

 

The cross members between the frames are detachable, so the inner frame with the wheels remains removable. Here's some pictures of the work involved.

 

The basic frames ready for detailing.

 

With all the bits added.

 

Here's the brass section added to allow the cross members to be slotted in and out.

 

And all in place.

 

Here's the chassis.

 

And with the wheels on. The centre bearings will be made to float with a simple wire spring, and there are half etched grooves to facilitate elongating the bearing holes.

 

And the tender on its wheels.

 

There are still quite a few parts to add but it's getting there.

 

And a shot with the loco. This is one big model!

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Park]

Save you from getting relegated again   

 

 

Your build has been a great help and other than a major lot of soldering to do, I have most of the components bent and rolled ready. Not as daunting rolling the smokebox and the tender sides as I thought it would be

 

Can I ask on your preferences for a motor/gearbox and a pickup system to go with it, as I too have the frame stretcher ready to spring out when the time comes

[PAD]

Thanks Park.

 

Glad to hear the thread is of assistance.

I'll be getting an ABC gearbox with Canon motor. I'm not sure which gearbox I'll need but I can download the template off from the website, print it off the cut out the gearbox drawings and check which will be suitable. As to the rear ratio, if you get in touch with ABC they will suggest the most suitable for your loco to match the gearbox and motor choice. I've used both Canon and Maxon motors in the past and I feel the Maxon is that bit better and worth the extra cost.

 

It would be good to see how you are getting on with yours, so feel free to post some photos if you wish.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Park]

Hmm I might just get on with some soldering this weekend and get the sub-assemblies arranged for some photos. I must admit there are a few pieces that have come apart again and been re-done with a minimum of solder

The build techniques are coming along and helped by this being a decent kit. One day I might be skilled enough to build the all brass Class 37 I bought the other year

 

I must try your loading the frames with the axleboxes and filters before fitting, looks a good idea 

 

Oh also what are your thoughts on pickups, plunger or wiper ?

Edited July 28, 2017 by Park

[PAD]

Whoops!

 

I wrote the reply on my phone and my finger went astray on the screen and I lost it!

 

Had to re type it and then overlooked the pick ups. I use phosphor bronze wire wipers positioned wherever is accessible, rubbing on the backs of the wheels if possible. If not I've put them on the treads, but Dikitriki mentioned that he has achieved good results on the edge of the flange, first by polishing the edge and lubricating with some graphite based grease. I though there would be a tendency for the steel to act like a circular saw on runnkng at 90 degrees to the p/b wire,

but that is not the case. He told me he has used this on loco that do very high mileage on big layouts without problems so I might give it a try. It will all depend on the space and access available with the

valve gear and body in place.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[dikitriki]

 but Dikitriki mentioned that he has achieved good results on the edge of the flange, first by polishing the edge and lubricating with some graphite based grease.

Peter

Just to clarify, the lubrication is with graphite from a real graphite artists pencil, just held against the rim while it is rotated. Powdered graphite on a finger held against the rim would work; I would avoid grease.

 

Richard

[PAD]

Progress has  slowed since  the  last post due  to travelling for  work. However, I've made a start on the  lubricators and  piping. The  cast W/M mechanical lubricators need cutting down as they are too large, and the cast brass oil boxes need modifying to allow the  feed holes to be drilled for  the  pipes. Here's the  W/M casting after drilling and  fitted with 5 X 0.8mm OD/0.4mm ID tubing  to allow 0.4mm copper wire to be fitted as the  piping. This was  before I realised they were too big and  that on the  prototype,  one  pair have 4 feeds per side, and  one pair have 3 feeds.

 

In the  instructions it  suggest cutting the riveted beading around the  base of the  middle  splasher in half,  to facilitate the  positioning of the  mechanical lubricators. I passed on that and  reduced them in size and  then filed a step at the  rear to clear the  beading.

 

Here's the  larger oil boxes, one  with the  base modified so that the  feed holes can be drilled, and  one as it  comes.

 

And clamped in the  vise for  drilling. I used a piece  of coffer stirrer to protect the  cast lid from being crushed.

 

The base of  the  smaller oil box also needs to be similarly modified to allow  drilling of the  feed holes.  Here's the  right side completed and one lubricator and  piping in place  on the  left. 

 

And some further views with the  boiler in place. The  lubricator on the  right has two additional feeds exiting from the  front.

 

Here you  can see the  front oil pot with the  base cut to allow the  feed holes to be  drilled.

 

And a broadside view with the support plates for the sand box fillers placed in their slots on the  running plate.

 

The front one hides the joint I made in the  piping to make it  easier fit it. I won't be able to make the boiler removable as I would prefer, so painting this lot black with a brush after spraying the  green, will be  tedious, and no  doubt involve some choice expletives when things go wrong.

 

Thanks to Richard Lambert (Dikitriki) for  the inspiration to add all this piping, as without the  pictures on his F7 build on Western Thunder, I would  not  have  had  a clue how  to do it (even having seen and  photographed it on City Of Birmingham). I've not  gone  to the  lengths he  did, as he  has  made and added a number of pipe unions (straight jacket stuff) and  a  representation of  the  padding used to protect the  piping from fracture, where is  passes over the  running plate edges, but  there are one or  two retaining brackets that I may add later.

 

One other  area I have also started on is  the  detailing on the  cast resin fire box. The riveting (I think it  may be screws on the  prototype) retaining the  cladding panels is  very course, so I've started replacing it  with small brass rivets from Eileens (Scale Hardward in the  US??). This  is  a very cruel close up and  I assure you they do look much better in the  flesh. 

 

Hopefully I'll get  the  other  running plate completed before  I go on holiday, so that I can crack on with the  boiler when I return.

 

Incidentally, I visited a customer today (Sheffield Refractories) who make special cements/concretes for  coating refractories/blast furnaces and  other  applications requiring resistance to very high temperatures.  It transpires that they provide a mix for  making the  castings used on preserved railways which makes the  "brick arch" in the  firebox. Apparently it is  very difficult to source the  traditional shaped bricks used to make  real brick arches, so a high temperature resistant casting is  used instead.  They count the  Great Central and  others amongst their  customers and  they also provided the  product to make  the  cast brick arch for Tornado.  I'm sure  I can get  a few gram sample for  anyone who wants  to add the brick arch to their 7mm firebox!

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[dikitriki]

Progress has  slowed since  the  last post due  to travelling for  work. However, I've made a start on the  lubricators and  piping. The  cast W/M mechanical lubricators need cutting down as they are too large, and the cast brass oil boxes need modifying to allow the  feed holes to be drilled for  the  pipes. Here's the  W/M casting after drilling and  fitted with 5 X 0.8mm OD/0.4mm ID tubing  to allow 0.4mm copper wire to be fitted as the  piping. This was  before I realised they were too big and  that on the  prototype,  one  pair have 4 feeds per side, and  one pair have 3 feeds.

20170724_202937.jpg

Peter

Hi Peter,

 

The mechanical lubricator with 3 output pipes was a normal sized 4 output (each side) lubricator. The 4th feed was still there, just not used..

 

Photo courtesy of and copyright Cliff Williams

 

It does make a big difference doing all the piping - good effort

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Edited August 3, 2017 by dikitriki

[PAD]

Thanks Richard.

 

Yes I realised the  lubricators were all the  same size with one  having the  rear outlets blanked. This  one  also has  the  two at the  front blanked as well. The Gladiator casting came with 8 outlets but  they were  far too small to drill out, hence the  use  of the  tubing. I agree it's well worth the  effort, and  having seen yours it  would  have  always rankled if I'd taken the  easy option. The worst part is  drilling the  brass castings which are heavy on 0.4 mm drill bits!

 

Painting may be difficult with the  boiler on but  I might  still be  able  to make  it  detachable. The  firebox will be  epoxied in place and  the  boiler can be  slotted in and retained with the  screw in the  smokebox.  The problem is  the  boiler firebox joint. If it's not  secured then it  will flex when picked up, and  if  I use  epoxy, the  risk is  it  will ooze on joining and  cock up the  paint work. I'm thinking it might be  possible  to add a strip of brass to the  lower front  of  the  firebox to allow me to screw the  boiler at the  bottom. We'll see.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

I have now added all the details to the running plate that I wanted to get on before the boiler. Here's the left hand side with all bar the sand box filler lids in place.

 

The simple chip wood cradle has been a big help in adding all this detail without bending the running plate, which is quite vulnerable. Here's the othe side after completion.

 

I have now replaced all the cast rivets on the firebox with smaller brass ones. The grooves to represent the gaps in the panneling have also been deepened with a the scrawker. As it comes I felt they were too fine to show after painting. The resin used does not containd the glass reinforcing as used by JLTRT, so is very easy to drill even at 0.4mm. I dont know if the F7 castings are just plain PU resin or if they are reinforced. Perhaps Dikitriki will comment on that. Here's the left side showing the original rivets and panel lines.

 

 

And the other side after modification.

 

Here it is back on the running plate.

 

I ran short of the rivets on the left hand side and used 0.5mm brass rod instead, after rounding off the ends. Can you spot which ones? It's easy enough to use the wire, but I still prefer the rivets as they save time on turning the end of the wire in the mini drill. I must get some more for the centre line along the top of the boiler.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited August 4, 2017 by PAD

[dikitriki]

Hi Peter,

 

The firebox looks much more refined with the work you have done. I obviously didn't use the DA one on my Ivatt Duchess, but I did think it very clumsy with the oversize rivets.

 

The Finney7 resin is not reinforced, just a plain resin casting to answer your question.

 

I was thinking about making your firebox detachable so the smokebox/boiler/firebox could be a removable unit - can you glue some some (say) 5mm angle along the bottom and a plate across the back and then screw into the footplate and cab front?

 

Richard