Gladiator 7mm Stanier Duchess

[Silverstreak]

Hi, they are one  above  the  other on CoB. I need to check my reference  books  when I get  back to the  UK, but  I am more  inclined  to go with CoB than DoS, which may  have  been altered in preservation.

 

20170619_115115.jpg

 

Either  way it  will be  easy to change them to side by side as Horsetan says.

 

Cheers,

Peter

David or any other forum member

You don't happen to have an image that shows the AWS magnate fitting on the front of the bogie it may of course have been removed when COB was completed for the Bham museum

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I took lots of photos of CoB. I'll check on my pc tomorrow and if I have one I'll post it. I know the cable back to the cab is there as I noticed it last night when I was looking at something else.

Cheers,

Peter

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Hi Silverstreak,

Here are a couple of  shots  of  the  bogie on CoB where you  can see the  AWS bracket on the  front.  Unfortunately the  magnet has been removed.

 

These also show  the inside cylinder drain pipe are clipped horizontally (albeit a bit  bent) and  it's likely that those  on the  left hand cylinder have  been knocked and  so are almost vertically  clipped now. The  white  bits in the  end of  the  drain pipes are corks, put there no doubt to stop errant offspring from putting their  fingers in and getting  them stuck.

 

However, Looking in the "Book of  the  Coronations", there  a couple of  grainy photos that suggest it  was a round disc similar to that on Bittern below.

 

I came across you photos on Flickr and  see that you  have  an very nice A4 built from the  original Finney kit.  I built the  same loco some  time  ago but  from the Acme kit, so not so user friendly to build as yours.  Still it  makes  a  nice  model. Here's a similar image  to yours before  I weathered it.

 

I trust the  above photos are of assistance.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Here's a shot looking past the footstep. It looks  like the  magnet was held in place by 4 bolts, with 2 of the  bolt holes visible  in the  mounting plate at the  far side.

If there is  anything else you  need let  me  know as I took over 200 photos of CoB. Unfortunately there is  a  viewing platform on the  right  hand side which makes  it  impossible  to get detail shots below the running plate on both loco and  tender.  

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

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I found a couple of interesting photos of DoS during its original overhaul at Butterley. The image quality is not the best but they do show details not normally visible.

 

First the bogie. The bracket on the front for the AWS can be seen, but it's the wrong angle to see the magnet. You can see the four retaining bolts inside the coiled cable though.

 

Here's a shot of the boiler being dismantled and laying on its top. The front support bracket can clearly be seen riveted to the underside. There is also a strengthening plate between the support and the boiler, which is not seen when the cladding is in place. My version is simplified being only visible from the sides.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Silverstreak]

Thank you Peter those images are exactly what I was looking for and Im very grateful to you for providing them

 

Reason for asking was that I was unsure if there were any substantial differences between the Magnate holder fitment to the front of the bogie on an A4 to that of a Duchess

 

Many moons ago I managed to take some images of the front bogie AWS gear on 60007 and looking at your provided images it would appear to be a standard fitment irrespective of Region

 

All of my big ex LNER locos have them fitted mostly all scratch built bits apart from the magnate that fortunately is produced by Andy Ragstone

 

Im working my way through a Finney Duchess hence the image request  

 

Thanks again

 

Regards

Bob

Edited October 25, 2017 by Silverstreak

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Hi Bob,

You're welcome. If your Finney A4 on Flickr is anything to go by, your Duchess will be very impressive.

 

On with the Gladiator version. I have made and added the valve that Petebe made me aware of in his photos of DoS. It's not perfect but it's very small an looks the part.9 pieces to make it!

 

And with the boiler on. The cover and pipe on the smoke box are now on and I added some thin strips of brass to represent the clips holding the lubricators piping on the running plate.

 

There's still a lot to do on the loco but back to the tender. The water scoop has been added and at Ozzyo's suggestion I ran the operating links through the rear frame cross member before soldering them.

 

That way the inner frame can be inserted and the cross member slotted into the position.

 

I made a start on the brake rigging by soldering together the pull rods and cross shafts. I also added ridding to represent the bolts holding the various bits together on the real thing. This is quite simplified but a set of cast brass parts can be sourced from Ragstone if desired. To make it easy I did all the soldering so the the parts pinned to a piece is wood. I then snipped the rods to length, tidied up with a file then removed from the wood and snipped and filed the other side.

 

Cheers.

Peter

[Horsetan]

All excellent lessons here for 4mm.

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Hi, does anybody know why some Duchesses have wash out plugs on the cylinder shoulders and some don't. I've been searching through my references and can't find any mention of it.

 

The model will be finished as 46233 as running in the 1950s in BR Green (with the early BR logo). There's a photo in Book of the Cornations that show DoS in Blue where the washout plugs are present and a later shot in green in 1955 which under magnification also shows the plugs. After scouring the internet I found photos when the loco was repainted at Crewe prior to moving to Bressingham and also at Bressingham, that show DoS was withdrawn from BR service with wash out plugs. All photos after restoration at Butterley are without wash out plugs. Can anybody throw any light on this?

Cheers,

Peter

[Dave Holt]

Hi Peter.

I think you'll find that these are plugs which allow visual access for valve setting, not washing out. All Stanier locos have them (and many others too), but the openings in the cylinder wrapper are normally covered by easily removable plates.

Dave.

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Thanks Dave.

I assume there would be a removable plug like a washout plug in the hole? Any idea why they are not on DoS now?

Cheers,

Peter

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Hi Dave,

I don't have LMS Profile on the Duchess Pacifics to hand, but looking in the volume on the "Lizzies" it makes reference to sighting plugs on one of the cylinder drawings. One assumes that DoS has the cylinders it was withdrawn with, so it has the sighting plugs, and it would appear that the holes in the cylinder cladding have just not been added, and to use the sighting plugs the wrapper needs to be taken off. This is strange considering there is an access plate on the face of the wrapper for the steam chest drain.

 

I must spend more time reading these profiles in detail (instead of just looking at the pictures) as there is so much stuff that's useful when building a model.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited October 29, 2017 by PAD

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Sorry guys but what the feck are you talking about !!!!!!! The only washing out I do is with me smalls.

 

All my stuff is all modled between mid 50s to early 60s so my DOS will also be green. Oh and by the way she is going to be repainted this year back to red.

 

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Once a year whether they need it or not!

 

We're talking about the holes in the cylinder wrapper on the top curve visible just under the valance.

 

I thought they were wash out plugs same as those on the firebox side and on top of the boiler. Dave has pointed that they are sighting holes for assisting in setting up the valves, but as far as I know they look similar.

 

The question is whether to plug the holes or keep them as not all Duchesses seem to have had them all of the time. I believe they were on DoS mid 1950s and certainly when withdrawn and purchased by Butlins. They were also on when the loco was repainted at Crewe prior to going to Bressingham. Either the holes in the cylinders have since been plugged and so they don't need the holes in the wrappers, or they they are still there but to access them, the wrappers need removing. I'm going with the holes so I need to add something to represent the plugs.

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Firstly my smalls are not open to general discussion, and if you must know it's every two years. I turn them inside out after the first year !!!!!!!

 

I shall see what you come up with as regards to them holes.

 

Question. What was the magnet for on the front of the bogies ?

 

Finished one side of the rods/crank. Still have to change that brass rivet for the one in the kit (now I know what it was for)

 

Still got to solder the washers together

 

And together. 

 

All seems ok. Nothing fixed yet. Now for the other side then we shall see.

 

Pete

[Horsetan]

...my smalls are not open....

 

Only on special occasions? 

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Hi Pete,

Maximising use between servicing (your smalls). Practical as ever.

 

On the cylinder  holes, I think I'm going to leave them, or  maybe just epoxy a strip of  brass on the  inside. The sighting  plugs seem to be  much smaller than the  wash out plugs and  can barely be seen, so I'm not  busting a gut trying  to make  something. I've got  plenty of  turned brass wash out plugs but  they are  too big and  won't  fit  flush as they have  a  flange on the  outside. 

 

The  magnet  on the  bracket on the  bogie  front operated the AWS.  If you are representing DoS mid 50s then ignore  it  as it wasn't  fitted until later. Also no speedo either. Those  oil boxes on the  frames of  DoS above the  bogie  in your  pictures are also a  post preservation addition. They were not  there  in BR service.

 

Return crank is  looking good.  When you  replace that domed rivet, you  should  have  more  clearance to put  the  2 washers either  side  of  the  connecting  rod instead of  4 on the  inside. you  in fact just file  a  flat on the  domed rivet.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

Peter, whilst looking for something else I came across some photos of my City of Manchester, built 17 years ago! I'll try and scan them and post here if you don't mind?

Regards

Sandy

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Hi Sandy,

Look forward to seeing them.

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Peter

 

Here is City of Manchester. I built it during the Autumn of 2000 for a friend, who has an extensive loft railway, which he operates every week with a group of friends. CofM still runs well and he considers it one of his most reliable runners!!

When I built it I intended attaching tape boiler bands before painting. You can imagine my horror when, after the first coat of maroon paint, I realised that I had forgotten to put them on!

 

Regards

Sandy

 

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Hi Sandy,

Looks very nice. Shame the images aren't better quality. Pre digital from the dark ages.

 

So is is from Gladiator or David Andrews?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Sandy,

Looks very nice. Shame the images aren't better quality. Pre digital from the dark ages.

 

So is is from Gladiator or David Andrews?

 

Cheers,

Peter

Peter, now that is a difficult question! I think it was a Gladiator, but I can't remember. I do remember it was a straightforward build with no big issues.

 

Regards

Sandy

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Hello all. For  those  of  you  that did not  spot  it  earlier, I made  a cock up of the  rear tender frame cross member.  It should  be fitted with the  flanges pointing downwards not  up as I did it. As it  is  sealed in place  by the  scoop mechanism, I had to slit it with a  cutting disc to get  it out and re-fit. Here it is  the  right  way round with the stabilizing shafts for  the rear part of  the  scoop represented with some  brass rod.  All the  brake  gear is  now added also.

 

A side  view with the  wheels back on.

 

And  with the  chassis back in the  tender body and  both cross members in place. The flanges on the  front cross member are meant  to point upwards.

 

I have  also added most of  the  remaining castings apart from the  buffers and  steam heating pipe. I'll need to make  one  as there  is no casting for  that included.

 

The  rear guard irons are now on. There's a couple of etched stanchions to go behind the  rear steps still to add.

 

Here's the  remaining work on the  front end done.  First up the  cast covers for  the  brake  and  water scoop operating  rods need cutting down as they are  too tall. I've seen models where  the  builder has  cut them down from the  top, but  the  excess length is  at the  bottom.

 

And here they are  in place with the  other  bits and  bobs added above them.

 

The operating rods and  cranks below  the  footplate and  not  included. I could  make  them, but  I don't  think they bring too much to the  party so I've decided to pass on those. Same story with the  intermediate buffers. I could  have  made them work, but  they are only cosmetic and  I wanted them set as close in to the  drag beam as possible  to avoid and  issues on the curves.

 

At the  front end, the  vac pipe and  steam lnce cock are now on. The  lance cock casting is  not  right  so some  cutting filing and modifying  are needed. The handle  on top is  made from a filed down 16 BA cheese head bolt solderer in to the casting whilst holding it  in the  pin vice.

 

And  a  cruel close up showing the  lance cock. The  white  residue is from the  "shiny sinks" type cleaner I used. When I get  to the  painting  stage,much better rinsing will be  in order.

 

Well I'm homing in on the  finish line now. I have  ordered an ABC gearbox and  Maxon motor to power it, so I must get  my thinking cap on and  consider the  pick ups.

 

I was travelling back up the  M6 today and  bobbed into Crewe and  took loads more pics of  Duchess of  Sutherland, especially  below  the  running plate on the  right hand side, which is  impossible  to photograph on City of  Birmingham. It's  a  bit  late  in the  build  but I finally caught up with it, and  as far as I'm concerned, you  can never have too much information. That said, CoB is a  better reference point in the  sense that it  is in 1960s BR condition, with none  of  post preservation equipment additions that DoS has of which there  are many. Still these extra photos may come in, and  you never know, despite  what I've said about  the  cost of  the  Finney 7 kit being beyond my budget, I would still love  to build one.

 

Here are some  shots of the  AWS bracket and  magnet. Its not  a  round disc as mentioned earlier, as it  has  been replaced by  a new one. I spoke  to an engineer who confirmed that the  original was round. He also confirmed the  the  sighting plugs are still on the  cylinders under the  cladding. It seems  they only  use  them when adding  the  valve pistons and they are not  needed for  setting  up the  valve timing. He also confirmed that the  oil boxes above  the  bogie on the  main frames are preservation items. They lubricate the  slides on the  bogie bearers and  were originally inside the  frames and  a  real pig to access for  filling. The ash pan is also bolted to the bottom of the  firebox, as opposed to  being held  by lugs and  cotter pins on CoB.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Some further progress tonight with the completion of the tender. The drawbar has been added to the front.

 

And the buffers, rear step brackets and home made steam heating pipe to the rear.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited November 3, 2017 by PAD

[Petebe]

Peter

 

Looking very good there mate.

 

Just doing the footplate. Now getting close to painting, just a couple of things to get like a few 16BA steel bolts.

 

 

Got the cut out for the pipes.

 

 

I'm going to paint the footplate before I lay the lube pipes. That way they will be copper on top of the black. I can then dirty them.

 

The lubricators will be painted separately then glued into position, again before I lay the pipes.

 

I could do with a fire box right about now, I'll give them a ring tomorrow. Hopefully at Reading (2nd Dec)

 

Pete