Sand traffic to St Helens mid-1970s

[DavidLong]

I am interested in the wagons that would have been used to deliver sand to the St Helens area in the mid -1970s. Can anyone confirm if the B.R 1/163, 1/166 and 1/167 were used for this traffic at this time. If so, were the deliveries from Oakamoor?

 

It may be possible that some deliveries used Covhops but I haven't found any definitive information in the form of photographs. Although see my comment below.

 

I have seen MTVs mentioned in relation to shipments out of Oakamoor. Any ideas on when they began to be used and where they were destined for? I have found some photographs in Paul Bartlett’s MTV file:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mtvzander

which show MTVs from Pool 5019 at Warrington in 1979 which is close enough to St Helens to make it likely that it was where they were heading. I wonder if they were used a couple of years earlier as 1977 is more the timescale that I’m interested in. In the background of the photos is a line of Covhops which may also mean a relationship with St Helens but Crosfields at Warrington Bank Quay is also a possibility.

 

Prestwins may also be of interest but, again, I haven’t seen any evidence of them in the area. One of the aspects of these wagons that I have noticed in photographs is that they rarely seemed to run as block loads but a few are often seen marshalled in mixed goods trains. This is especially noticeable in  photographs from the 1960s.

 

For 2FS Stephen Harris does kits for the ex-ore hoppers and the covhops and he has produced Prestwins for the 2mm Association. He also does a kit for the 35T tank wagons and, if necessary, I may be able to wheedle some underframes out of him to scratchbuild some MTVs!

 

I have also asked this question in reviving an old thread but I am repeating it in this area as it may get more views!  Any information gratefully received.

 

David

[Fat Controller]

I worked near the line, in Fenton, in 1977-78; the majority of the sand trains were composed of former iron-ore hoppers, though I did see a few of the almost-new MTV opens.

[AberdeenBill]

There were Prestwins (CQVs) and sand tipplers (USVs) allocated to Congleton for sand traffic, but I don't know if they worked to St Helens.   Sand seems a bit dense (heavy) for loading in Covhops?  

 

Bill

[DavidLong]

There were Prestwins (CQVs) and sand tipplers (USVs) allocated to Congleton for sand traffic, but I don't know if they worked to St Helens.   Sand seems a bit dense (heavy) for loading in Covhops?  

 

Bill

 

Covhops certainly were used for sand as seen here on Paul Bartlett's site:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcovhop

However, although Rockware bought a company in St Helens in the late 1960s, I believe that the Covhops that were lettered for Rockware were used for deliveries to their plants in Yorkshire. I have never seen any photos of them west of the Pennines.

 

David

[DavidLong]

Found in another thread that the Prestwins used for sand from Oakamoor were conveying it to Lever Brothers at Port Sunlight for  use in making domestic cleaning materials. Conveyed via Arpley - Ellesmere Port - Port Sunlight.

 

David

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just as a matter of interest, something that has always been in my tiny mind, but, how much sand actually got to it's destination when carried in open wagons, I can't think of a much more inappropriate wagon for such a load, and was it paid for on despatched or delivered weights?

 

Mike.

[DavidLong]

Just as a matter of interest, something that has always been in my tiny mind, but, how much sand actually got to it's destination when carried in open wagons, I can't think of a much more inappropriate wagon for such a load, and was it paid for on despatched or delivered weights?

 

Mike.

 

Pilkingtons had some sand hoppers which they owned to move sand from local pits to St Helens. A photo here:

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p557772082

shows them with tarpaulins even though the movements were over relatively short distances. However, aside from Prestwins and Covhops which come with roofs, photos of sand tipplers, hoppers and MTVs don't seem to show the same concern for the load or indeed the guard in the rear brake van!

 

David

[Enterprisingwestern]

Pilkingtons had some sand hoppers which they owned to move sand from local pits to St Helens. A photo here:

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p557772082

shows them with tarpaulins even though the movements were over relatively short distances. However, aside from Prestwins and Covhops which come with roofs, photos of sand tipplers, hoppers and MTVs don't seem to show the same concern for the load or indeed the guard in the rear brake van!

 

David

 

Oakamoor had some cattle wagons allocated to serve as "windbreaks" to protect the guard from getting shotblasted, can't say as I've seen pics of them in use though.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

Oakamoor had some cattle wagons allocated to serve as "windbreaks" to protect the guard from getting shotblasted, can't say as I've seen pics of them in use though.

 

Mike.

I suspect their role on the Oakamoor run was as much as a fitted head as windbreak: because of the reversal at Leekbrook, some vans would be found at either end of the train. These were replaced by Banana vans and then by ex-Ford Palvans, before the traffic went over to air-braked stock.

[davefreight]

 

I have seen MTVs mentioned in relation to shipments out of Oakamoor. Any ideas on when they began to be used and where they were destined for?

MTV's carried sand from Oakamoor to the CWS Glassworks in Wigan