WCJS fish van?

[ullypug]

I've acquired the attached but only have a vague idea what it is. I think it's a WCJS 6 fish van and I'm thinking it may be a Mallard kit.

What threw me is only the outer w irons are present though there is a slot in the centre where a further set could be.

So my questions are:

1. Is my thinking correct?

2. If so, what liveries did they have pre and post grouping?

3. Is there any conceivable scenario where they might have ended up on a Plymouth wharf side or a Somerset branchline?

I like the idea of doing something with it but not if it's completely out of region.

Thanks in advance.

 

P.s. I know what the GW van is!!!

[Brassey]

I've acquired the attached but only have a vague idea what it is. I think it's a WCJS 6 fish van and I'm thinking it may be a Mallard kit.

What threw me is only the outer w irons are present though there is a slot in the centre where a further set could be.

So my questions are:

1. Is my thinking correct?

2. If so, what liveries did they have pre and post grouping?

3. Is there any conceivable scenario where they might have ended up on a Plymouth wharf side or a Somerset branchline?

I like the idea of doing something with it but not if it's completely out of region.

Thanks in advance.

 

P.s. I know what the GW van is!!!

 

This looks like a D107 6 wheel Fish Van.  Mallard issued these as a limited edition I think.

 

In LNWR/WCJS days it would have been all brown with yellow lining.

 

Pre WW1, once a day such fish trucks left Aberdeen bound for the North to West line running via Shrewsbury to Bristol and one could well have gone further onwards on the GWR network.  I have no knowledge of the LMS period

[asmay2002]

LNWR Diagram 444 CCT?

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=600

 

http://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p909960545/h4867611A#h4867611a

Edited July 23, 2017 by asmay2002

[Brassey]

LNWR Diagram 444 CCT?

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=600

 

http://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p909960545/h4867611A#h4867611a

 

I thought that but the ends are different.  The CCT has opening end doors whereas in the OP you can just see the louvres in the fixed ends making it the fish van

 

http://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p909960545/h4867611A#h67200d93

 

Edit to add link

Edited July 24, 2017 by Brassey

[ullypug]

Thanks for the help!

Definitely has louvred ends and the roof profile isn't as pronounced as the CCT. Body sides do look the same though.

Edited July 23, 2017 by ullypug

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Is there any conceivable scenario where they might have ended up on a Plymouth wharf side or a Somerset branchline?...

 

 Very unlikely while in service as a WCJS vehicle. As a jointly owned vehicle built specifically for the fish traffic over the owning company's lines, that's would be its sole use (cheesy grin).

 

Once/if it was released from the WCJS stock list, then as usual with the steam railway, practically anything is possible. Was this design retained in fish traffic long term and even right up to withdrawal, (and thus less likely to be in some corner of the GW system) or did examples survive into use derated as general merchandise vans (or something else) having been superseded by later designs of fish traffic vans? The latter would offer the possibility of it going 'anywhere'.

[Londontram]

As has been said a WCJS six wheel fish van, if you enlarge the picture you can see the bolts holding the "W irons" in place and can see the bolts where the center W iron would bolt in place.

 

Some of the fish vans of various diagrams where duel used for seasonal fruit traffic but again if that would have taken it as far as the south west is unknown, though fish to or from Plymouth is a bit of a coals to Newcastle scenario fruit like say apples from Somerset to Scotland is a more believable scenario.

[duncan]

I agree with Brassey & Londontram and 102 diagram 107 vans built.

 

In 1913, vans in the 2pm from Aberdeen to London went to Carlisle, Holyhead, London & Crewe  (Casserley & Millard, WCJS).  

[Brassey]

I agree with Brassey & Londontram and 102 diagram 107 vans built.

 

In 1913, vans in the 2pm from Aberdeen to London went to Carlisle, Holyhead, London & Crewe  (Casserley & Millard, WCJS).  

 

In 1912 the 1.25am from Crewe to Bristol carried a Fish Van from Aberdeen to Bristol (and also a Fish Truck from Hull to Bristol).  This is probably the same Fish Van that left Aberdeen at 2pm bound for Crewe from where it went down the joint line.  Source: LNWR Marshalling Circular Jul - Sep 1912.  I do not have the GWR equivalent to see where it went from Bristol but maybe there was a big fish market there at the time.

[ullypug]

Thanks for all the replies folks. The level of information is really quite impressive!

Based on the advice, I would think that the fish truck would only end up in Plymouth or the Cheddar Valley if it was lost.

Certainly siphons of fruit or vegetables from the west country and Brittany did get distributed up as far as Scotland, but it might be stretching it a bit.

I'll put it on the back burner, will have a look at the various Cleminson chassis options before deciding what to do next.

[Brassey]

Thanks for all the replies folks. The level of information is really quite impressive!

Based on the advice, I would think that the fish truck would only end up in Plymouth or the Cheddar Valley if it was lost.

Certainly siphons of fruit or vegetables from the west country and Brittany did get distributed up as far as Scotland, but it might be stretching it a bit.

I'll put it on the back burner, will have a look at the various Cleminson chassis options before deciding what to do next.

 

London Road Models produce various LNWR 6 wheel Cleminson chassis that would be correct for this vehicle depending on wheelbase.  IIRC these limited edition Mallard kits came without castings, I have at least 2 in my unmade kit pile.

[duncan]

Andrew, don't despair of fruit or veg going from the south west (grown or ports) to Scotland, & vice versa.  The growing seasons are so different that it would not be impossible - it's your railway.

 

If elephants can go round the country ...........

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

They were a long time in service too. I have in mind that 'somewhere' (might be the NRM?) I have seen a picture of one of these very distinctive vehicles being shunted at Wolverton by one of the even more tres ancien Ramsbottom/Webb 'special tanks' carrying the BR early crest.

[Brassey]

I've finally started to build one of these for my LNWR/GWR joint layout.  I used a David Geen 6w underframe from the spares box discarding the stretchers that came with the Mallard kit.  The axle box castings are from the same source.  I utilised a Brassmasters Cleminson underframe though the LRM one would have done too as it has the correct wheelbase.  I botched the gas cylinders to get them in but I don't know if these vehicles had them.  There should be  a brake cylinder too: can't find a drawing.