Mileposts-what colour were they, pre-nationalisation?

[LMS2968]

Tell me - how does one lose a milepost?

 

Did it get left on a train? Perhaps it's in Lost Luggage, at Victoria, waiting for it's rightful owner to collect it?

(Tongue in cheek..... )

They disappear more often than you think, or more usually become broken and need replacement. The new one often shows the mileage as 0.

 

The one in the photo is only one along the L&MR to be replaced by an anonymous replacement.

[Southernman46]

Tell me - how does one lose a milepost?

 

Did it get left on a train? Perhaps it's in Lost Luggage, at Victoria, waiting for it's rightful owner to collect it?

(Tongue in cheek..... )

 

Erm ........... a few redundant SR concrete ones fell into my van / car over the years

Edited July 31, 2017 by Southernman46

[Trog]

Tell me - how does one lose a milepost?

 

 

Wooden ones rot, concrete ones the reinforcement rusts and swells and the concrete crumbles.

 

The posts then get replaced not always in the right place, or in the case of one wooden milepost I know of that rotted off at the base it has been standing inside a nearby OHL mast for several decades. One milepost I replaced myself with a concrete sleeper buried at one end so it stands up as a post, that one should last a while.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Trog

[Poor Old Bruce]

The Midland was an exception in doing a comprehensive re-mileing of its lines in the early 20th century - interesting* article on the Midland Railway Society website.  Sometime when I have time to spare I'll try to work out whether the series was continuous through Leeds or anticipated the cut-off via Bradford that was never actually built. 

 

AFAIK the Midland mileage at Leeds was continuous from [Holbeck] Engine Shed Junction to Whitehall Junction on its was to Carlisle Petteril Bridge. The mileage to Leeds would have continued from Engine Shed Junction into the station. The north side of the triangle would have had its own mileage presumably fron the Leeds junction to Whitehall Jct but I'd have to check that.

 

There is a Change of Mileage, just west of Plymouth North Road - 246.29 to 247.42 because the original was measured via the reversal at Millbay.

 

Another thing about Western mileages is that they are measured from the eastern boundary of Paddington Station, not from the end of the track which has, in any case, moved west wards over the years. I don't know what the other railways did. Also, what was the policy elsewhere on branch lines? The GWR kept counting from the junction so St Ives is 325.13 despite being less than 5 miles long. Did the others do that, or start again at 0.0?

 

On the Midland, the mileage from St Pancras to Manchester via Derby was measured from Spondon Junction to Derby North Junction via Chaddesden Sidings. The 'South Curve' from Spondon Jct to Derby via Way and Works carried on the mileage from Spondon Jct to (IIRC) Derby North Jct and the curve from Derby South Jct (at the Chad Sidings end of the triangle) carried on the mileage to Derby Jct at the north end of Five Arches. Closure of Chad Sidings as a through route has led to some changes and I think there are now two '128' mileposts, one opposite the RTC (an original one) and one somewhere a few yards north of the station where the measured mileage has been backtracked from the marked mileage to the north. Milepost all used to be painted white btw, yellow is a 'modern image' thing.

 

Reversals seemed to be a GWR thing although others probably did them as well.  I think branches would often start from a zero at the junction but if the divergence was in the direction of increasing mileage the main line sequence might continue down both the main line and the branch. 

 

Midland branch line served by facing junctions (e.g. Duffield to Wirksworth) continue the main line mileage. Lines served by trailing junctions (the one which springs to mind at the mo is the 'West Road' from Derby where the mileage starts from zero at London Road Junction) started a new mileage count.

 

Just to be clear, the Midland was not "up to Derby" on all routes, at least not after the re-mileing I referred to earlier.  The mileage at Derby was from St Pancras, as it was for all other Midland routes that could be reached from London without reversal or backtracking.  Like all the other Midland branches with junctions trailing from London, the Derby to Bristol line had a zero where it diverged from the London route, still visible at the south end of Derby station.  So in practice a lot of the Midland mileages to the south west would have started from Derby.  But that's not the same as saying Derby was the zero milepost for the whole network. 

 

The only company as far as I recall that reached London but didn't have a zero milepost there was the Great Central (also unusual in having "up" as the direction of increasing mileage).  The Lancashire and Yorkshire had a zero at Manchester Victoria but the company HQ isn't always the zero point for non-London companies, with the Caledonian measuring from Carlisle for example. 

 

The Great Central was the London Extension of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway whose mileage count started from Manchester. They simply continued the count towards Marylebone. I would have to check what happened to the mileage count when the GCR met the Metropolitan Railway.

 

There is a communal zero milepost for several lines (companies?) at York station by the footbridge.

[Trog]

The Great Central was the London Extension of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway whose mileage count started from Manchester. They simply continued the count towards Marylebone. I would have to check what happened to the mileage count when the GCR met the Metropolitan Railway.

 

Mileage from Manchester reaches 161M 1100Y then changes to 44M 1056Y and starts decreasing towards Baker Street. Then at Northwick Park where the CG lines separate from the Met for the run into Marylebone the mileage picks up again at 197M 45Y and carries on rising away from Manchester.

[rodent279]

Mileage from Manchester reaches 161M 1100Y then changes to 44M 1056Y and starts decreasing towards Baker Street. Then at Northwick Park where the CG lines separate from the Met for the run into Marylebone the mileage picks up again at 197M 45Y and carries on rising away from Manchester.

Not in the least bit confusing at all........

[Edwin_m]

The mileage through Nottingham also runs "backwards" as it was miled via the Melton line that used to enter the station from the east.  This is also confusing as the mileage via Loughborough, which ends at Mansfield Junction, is only a couple of miles different. 

[runs as required]

The Great Central was the London Extension of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway whose mileage count started from Manchester. They simply continued the count towards Marylebone. I would have to check what happened to the mileage count when the GCR met the Metropolitan Railway.

I used to enjoy the literally outlandish sensation of travelling on an LNER train in Wales enjoying the delicate carriage water colours of Whitby and Wells-next-the-Sea !

This was from the Wallasey Corporation Mersey ferries terminal at Seacombe to Wrexham Central. The WMCQR had  gone into receivership and was apparently bought by the Great Central as distinct from the CLC.

 

I cannot imagine this was ever re-mileaged from Manchester (London Road).

 

Which begs the question - what were mileposts for?

Would they have been for any other purpose than for identifying a particular section of railway to Civil/PW/Signal Engineers (and to the Railway Clearing House)?

Drivers and guards would have their own detail route knowledge, passengers would use timetable mileages (and fares). Did stop watch timing nuts rely on them or use rail joints or telegraph poles?

 

I tried to recall in my post #25 how drawings with mileages were used on the former BR Eastern Region - which of course originally included former GCR lines.

And what happened when BR Regional boundaries were changed on former Grouping lines?

 

dh

Edited August 1, 2017 by runs as required

[Edwin_m]

I used to enjoy the literally outlandish sensation of travelling on an LNER train in Wales enjoying the delicate carriage water colours of Whitby and Wells-next-the-Sea !

This was from the Wallasey Corporation Mersey ferries terminal at Seacombe to Wrexham Central. The WMCQR had  gone into receivership and was apparently bought by the Great Central as distinct from the CLC.

 

I cannot imagine this was ever re-mileaged from Manchester (London Road).

 

Which begs the question - what were mileposts for?

Would they have been for any other purpose than for identifying a particular section of railway to Civil/PW/Signal Engineers (and to the Railway Clearing House)?

Drivers and guards would have their own detail route knowledge, passengers would use timetable mileages (and fares). Did stop watch timing nuts rely on them or use rail joints or telegraph poles?

 

I tried to recall in my post #25 how drawings with mileages were used on the former BR Eastern Region - which of course originally included former GCR lines.

And what happened when BR Regional boundaries were changed on former Grouping lines?

 

dh

You'll be pleased to know that according to the Quail map it's miled from zeros at Wrexham and Bidston (although the junction of the former avoidling loop not the current junction).  They meet at Hawarden Bridge, which appears to have been the original northern limit of the WM&CQ.  As illustrated by this example and mentioned in previous posts, milepost numbers and positions once established were rarely changed.  But I believe there was and still is a legal requirement to provide them on all railways - perhaps in the days of fares being set per mile they were to reassure passengers they were getting their money's worth? 

[moore43grm]

hi there

 

hope this is of some help, taken from "The Queensbury Lines" face book page

 

 

 

 

Russ M

Edited August 1, 2017 by moore43grm

[rodent279]

hi there

 

hope this is of some help, taken from "The Queensbury Lines" face book page

 

 

 

 

Russ M

 

Judging from the state of some mileposts on the GWML, NR clearly do not require them to be "cleaned and painted at intervals of not more than 3 years"!

Edited August 2, 2017 by rodent279

[Southernman46]

Or indeed on the very same GWML - due to their piss-poor cess vegetation management - be seen at all .....................

[Poggy1165]

I used to enjoy the literally outlandish sensation of travelling on an LNER train in Wales enjoying the delicate carriage water colours of Whitby and Wells-next-the-Sea !

This was from the Wallasey Corporation Mersey ferries terminal at Seacombe to Wrexham Central. The WMCQR had  gone into receivership and was apparently bought by the Great Central as distinct from the CLC.

 

I cannot imagine this was ever re-mileaged from Manchester (London Road).

 

Which begs the question - what were mileposts for?

Would they have been for any other purpose than for identifying a particular section of railway to Civil/PW/Signal Engineers (and to the Railway Clearing House)?

Drivers and guards would have their own detail route knowledge, passengers would use timetable mileages (and fares). Did stop watch timing nuts rely on them or use rail joints or telegraph poles?

 

 

 

One function would have been to enable drivers to calculate their speed. Engines rarely had speedometers until quite modern times, so how would you know if you were breaking the speed limit? Complex mental arithmetic was an expectation of schools at one time.

 

A second function, possibly, would be to assist in working out the distance from the train when putting out detonators to protect it. 

[Fat Controller]

One function would have been to enable drivers to calculate their speed. Engines rarely had speedometers until quite modern times, so how would you know if you were breaking the speed limit? Complex mental arithmetic was an expectation of schools at one time.

 

A second function, possibly, would be to assist in working out the distance from the train when putting out detonators to protect it. 

They'd also serve as reference points for the various engineering departments when works had to be carried out. Far safer than using local placenames for things such as bridges.

[LMS2968]

One function would have been to enable drivers to calculate their speed. Engines rarely had speedometers until quite modern times, so how would you know if you were breaking the speed limit? Complex mental arithmetic was an expectation of schools at one time.

 

A second function, possibly, would be to assist in working out the distance from the train when putting out detonators to protect it.

I'm not sure on that. Drivers generally had a visual and an aural means of estimating speed: the former was the rate the telegraph poles were going past and the latter was sound of the rail joints. Both these came much more often than even quarter mile posts. A similar situation, as far as the poles are concerned, was used for putting shots down.

[rodent279]

Slightly OT (well I started it, so I guess it's my party! :-)), but if you go to the rather excellent National Libraries of Scotland, and bring up either SW England, OS 1:500, Towns, 1880's or SW England, OS 25 Inch, 1873-1888, they show mileposts, with the mileage, and where they are referenced from.

 

Here's a link to a section of the SW England, OS 1:500, Towns, 1880's maps, just east of Bristol TM. What's more interesting is that in this particular series of maps, the actual broad gauge & standard gauge rails are shown.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=20&lat=51.4518&lon=-2.5736&layers=117746211&b=1