Anyone Interested in Ships

[Bon Accord]

I shall bore you all senseless with these soon. I've been digging out Dads and my pictures of these as they were the class that he oversaw the build of in Nagasaki in the 70's  Resource, Reliance, Ranger, Resolution and.....the other one?

He was also overseeing some French ones "Chinon Ceaux" IIRC?

Excellent thread, Just swapping pics from another hard drive to contribute.

 

There was quite a few of that class. In addition to those you've mentioned there was also Renown, Trident, Norness plus a clutch of them for French BP and the Iranians.

Trident/Norness were bareboat chartered from P&O and had short BP careers, although they were identical to the other ships.

The surviving BP ships all had major life extension projects undertaken circa 1990, however Renown (which was in the worst condition) went to scrap in '94.

Odd man out was BRITISH RESPECT which although having an "R" name was very different to the other ships in terms of hull and accommodation but otherwise similar - she had come from another Japanese yard, Kawaski I think. She was sold off in '93 but did last until the millennium with other owners. Respect was the one which was bombed up the Gulf in '87 and also represented BP 10 years earlier at the Silver Jubilee fleet review.

A video of the Renown's final voyage (made for BP) has recently appeared on Youtube, see here:

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bon Accord

[MarkC]

Mention of Gibsons puts in mind that our (Bibby's) Wiltshire was built for Gibbos but delivered new to us - not sure what the story was.  She was a work up ship for sure, the smallest and perhaps most troublesome (see later!) in our fleet.  She had a 4 cylinder Doxford, which one fine day decided to begin to shake the ship apart. After much investigation nothing could be found amiss, and on starting away again once over 40 revs or so the shake started again.  A conference was had on the poop with a beer or two while ideas were bounced around.  She was in ballast so high out of the water, and the Mate says to the Chief, 'how many blades does this propellor have?'  '4 came the answer, why?' - 'Listen - splash, splash, splash, gap    splash, splash, splash, gap.....a bloody blade had fallen off!

 

 

As I understand it, she was still 'on the stocks' when Runcimans bought Gibsons. Their bean counters decided that she was a step too far for Gibsons, and so she was sold before even being launched. From what you're saying we dodged a bullet - although we did subsequently build "Traquair"...

[Bon Accord]

As I understand it, she was still 'on the stocks' when Runcimans bought Gibsons. Their bean counters decided that she was a step too far for Gibsons, and so she was sold before even being launched. From what you're saying we dodged a bullet - although we did subsequently build "Traquair"...

 

Mark,

I didn't know Runcimans had bought Gibsons, how long did that last? I know they're still (just) involved in the industry as they own a couple of container feeders but they have outside management, as it would seem the company is just an investment vehicle these days. Their ships do have names ending in "....moor" however. Weirs managed a couple of them for them for a while, I think GLENMOOR was the last one.

[chris p bacon]

There was quite a few of that class. In addition to those you've mentioned there was also Renown, Trident, Norness plus a clutch of them for French BP and the Iranians.

Trident/Norness were bareboat chartered from P&O and had short BP careers, although they were identical to the other ships.

 

Odd man out was BRITISH RESPECT which although having an "R" name was very different to the other ships in terms of hull and accommodation but otherwise similar - she had come from another Japanese yard, Kawaski I think. 

 

Yes, Respect was built in Kawasaki.

 

Dad was CE at handover and first voyages of Norness, I've got some piccies I'll post.

 

I might have posted some of these before, this is one of the 'R' class under construction "British Ranger" it is the one I have the fondest memories of as I saw pretty much most of its construction (I was 14) I was allowed to wander wherever I wanted in the yard and spent a lot of time with Mr Ichikawa the Mitsubishi head honcho.

Keel laying. (Dad is in the middle in front of 'No', that's him looking cheerful)

I did have to pass a safety test before wandering and had to have full protective gear on.

 

Handover, now can anyone guess the one on the left and his link to railways?

Sea trials.

 

I have in the loft a lot of paperwork relating to the builds as Dad brought them back from Nagasaki, some are quite technical papers but others are simple things like a letter written asking for the floor to be repainted as the cleaners swept up when the paint was wet, and the finish wasn't good enough. I remember Dad moaning about it and saying "For 19 million pounds I want it right"

 

More to come.

[MarkC]

Mark,

I didn't know Runcimans had bought Gibsons, how long did that last? I know they're still (just) involved in the industry as they own a couple of container feeders but they have outside management, as it would seem the company is just an investment vehicle these days. Their ships do have names ending in "....moor" however. Weirs managed a couple of them for them for a while, I think GLENMOOR was the last one.

Hi Jim

 

Runcimans owned Gibsons for a few years, before selling them on to an outfit called Belships. From there we went to Eitzen, and 2 years later, in 2008 the Edinburgh office closed. We sea staff were transferred to the remit of their Copenhagen office, but after 2 spills in 3 days just before Christmas 2008 (not on any of our ships), one oil major blacklisted the entire Eitzen fleet, some 150 ships - oil, chemical and gas - until the technical management and crewing management was transferred elsewhere. Eitzen opted for V Ships, who refused to take on Western Europeans, so we all got made redundant. I'd been there 19 years, and had been senior C/Eng since 2002. There were at least 3 Masters who had been there for well over 20 years. We couldn't believe it. Shipping, eh?

 

Mark

[Bon Accord]

IMG_0002 - Copy.jpg

Handover, now can anyone guess the one on the left and his link to railways?

 

Bob Horton wasn't it? I seem to remember he was properly hated within the company. I think he later joined the BR board and then Railtrack.

[chris p bacon]

Bob Horton wasn't it? I seem to remember he was properly hated within the company. I think he later joined the BR board and then Railtrack.

 

Yep.

 

I remember Lord Carrington (he became that after a term as FO minister in Thatchers government) signing for one ship and he was well liked, but when Bob Horton was chosen he was universally hated by everyone. I asked why he was chosen and Ron Henderson (Hull inspector) said " Some get it by merit others by brown nosing, don't ask to borrow his handkerchief"

 Stuffed BP when Chairman and was walked from the building by security then went on to be Railtracks first Chairman on a 3 day week.

[Bon Accord]

Hi Jim

 

Runcimans owned Gibsons for a few years, before selling them on to an outfit called Belships. From there we went to Eitzen, and 2 years later, in 2008 the Edinburgh office closed. We sea staff were transferred to the remit of their Copenhagen office, but after 2 spills in 3 days just before Christmas 2008 (not on any of our ships), one oil major blacklisted the entire Eitzen fleet, some 150 ships - oil, chemical and gas - until the technical management and crewing management was transferred elsewhere. Eitzen opted for V Ships, who refused to take on Western Europeans, so we all got made redundant. I'd been there 19 years, and had been senior C/Eng since 2002. There were at least 3 Masters who had been there for well over 20 years. We couldn't believe it. Shipping, eh?

 

Mark

 

Aye, oil majors and their target led BS - as if it meant anything meaningful.

I think I've been made redundant (in the proper sense) and 'not being asked back' (i.e. was too expensive because of my nationality) a good half dozen times now. Que sera sera.

On the flip side, after my final fling with tankers in the early part of the century I immediately returned to employment with Andrew Weirs and ended up on the MOD chartered ships they managed. For a good few years pretty much everyone onboard those ships was a refugee of some description: Bank Line/Cable and Wireless/Mobil Tankers/P&O/RFA/Various Ferries had all made people redundant so we all moved across. Since it was a virgin company it was mayhem for the first few years because everyone wanted to do things as per their previous employer, however it did all settle down eventually. They were great ships with great people and truly were the Indian Summer of the non-RFA MN  as they were the last ships to be UK flag/UK built/UK crowd/UK owners.

I remember one trip I was there that amongst the 4 senior officers alone there counted no less than 21 companies between us: Bank Line, Ben Line, Blue Star Line, BUE, Cable & Wireless, Calmac, Clan Line, Cunard, BP, Elder Dempster, Glen Line, Mobil, OCL/P&O Containers, Port Line, RFA, Shell Tankers, Union Castle Line, United Baltic Co, Union Transport, Whitco and Worldwide Shipping.

[MarkC]

Aye, oil majors and their target led BS - as if it meant anything meaningful.

I think I've been made redundant (in the proper sense) and 'not being asked back' (i.e. was too expensive because of my nationality) a good half dozen times now. Que sera sera.

On the flip side, after my final fling with tankers in the early part of the century I immediately returned to employment with Andrew Weirs and ended up on the MOD chartered ships they managed. For a good few years pretty much everyone onboard those ships was a refugee of some description: Bank Line/Cable and Wireless/Mobil Tankers/P&O/RFA/Various Ferries had all made people redundant so we all moved across. Since it was a virgin company it was mayhem for the first few years because everyone wanted to do things as per their previous employer, however it did all settle down eventually. They were great ships with great people and truly were the Indian Summer of the non-RFA MN  as they were the last ships to be UK flag/UK built/UK crowd/UK owners.

I remember one trip I was there that amongst the 4 senior officers alone there counted no less than 21 companies between us: Bank Line, Ben Line, Blue Star Line, BUE, Cable & Wireless, Calmac, Clan Line, Cunard, BP, Elder Dempster, Glen Line, Mobil, OCL/P&O Containers, Port Line, RFA, Shell Tankers, Union Castle Line, United Baltic Co, Union Transport, Whitco and Worldwide Shipping.

That's some legacy of the British Merchant Navy there, with that list 

 

The oil major concerned - it was the one which involved a large striped member of the feline species in its advertising, many year ago...

 

Their attitude has always been arrogant - in 1998 I was heading for the US from NW Europe (probably Terneuzen) with a cargo of Butadiene; our discharge port range was Houston to Port Allen (which is across the river from Baton Rouge - 24 hours minimum up the Mississippi) - which is a wide range. We had a crew change due, plus stores, spares, provisions, bunkers, LO bunkers to arrange. So, approaching the Bahama Channel, we asked Operations to see if there was an indication of confirmed port(s). Not yet, was the answer, so no problem, keep going. Abeam Miami, still no news. 2 hours from the deviation point abeam Dry Tortugas (do we go straight on for the Houston area or turn right for the Mississippi), still no news, so Ops were asked to try again. Ops phoned back 10 minutes later, to report something along the lines of

 

Ops:- Good afternoon. Do you have confirmed disport(s) for our vessel xxxxxxxx yet please?

Oil Major:- Why do you need to know?

Ops:- Well, ma'am, the ship is 2 hours from the deviation point, so a decision needs to be made very soon. Also, the Master has various items to set up (he reeled off the list), so it's important, you know?

Oil major:- It's ONLY important if xxxxx (the oil major) says that it is...

Ops:- *speechless*

 

We were finally told our destination 5 minutes before we were going to slow down just before the deviation point and then stop, to await instructions...

 

Mark

Edited August 6, 2017 by MarkC

[jjb1970]

​The MN was the original globalised industry. The thing that finally pushed me to leave was being dropped onto an anchor handlers managed by the company's subsidiary in Brazil. I joined her in Niteroi, under the harbour bridge and opposite their aircraft carrier that never moved, and the ship couldn't leave the berth because they couldn't get enough air to start engines. The air reservoirs were water tanks because the condensate drains had blocked at some point, nobody had bothered to unblock them and they'd filled up with water (keeping in mind how hot and humid it is in Brazil). As well as that all of the start air distributors were corroded from trying to distribute water. The engine room was just a mass of flexible plastic pipes and jubilee clips as rigging wilden pumps was easier than repairing proper pumps and pipe leaks for the bilge and sludge systems. When I looked in the air reservoirs it was awful, then the arguments started as the company knew what class would say if I reported it to them, I made a stand and told them to fly me home then as I wasn't going to blow myself up when the things ruptured because they were so rotten. I did the normally 6 week trip and worked my nuts off and barely started making in-roads into all the defects and decided that that was a portent of the future for that company. Their half decent engineers would end up just floating around the fleet sorting out the catastrophes created by local or minimum cost crews. I'd heard of similar experiences from friends on some of their other ships but sort of assumed there was a bit of exaggeration until I saw it myself. When I got home they were recruiting for the power plant at Sellafield and the rest as they say is history.

 

On oil majors, in my last job I had to do quite a lot with some of their representatives and they're very Jeckyl and Hyde. Depending on what part of the company you deal with they're either a complete nightmare or a pleasure to work with. They do like their arbitrary scoring systems which are pretty much meaningless, such as the OVID system.

[MarkC]

I can see exactly where you're coming from - I've been lucky, I guess, getting into the liquefied gases trades when I did, back in 1989. We have so many Vetting Inspections that situations like that anchor cranker's disgusting state just don't (usually) happen - although this present ship of mine was in a pretty bad way when I took her over in January last year. Previous owners had spent as little as possible on her after having her 'from new' - everything we looked at was in a poor way - indeed, I told the Office not to buy her or her sister (just as badly neglected), but the reply was that if we didn't, one of our competitors would. So, here we are. At least they don't have grounds to complain when I order yet more parts - but they still gripe a bit...

 

Was it a company with blue hulls and a 7 pointed star that you were referring to, by any chance?

[jjb1970]

I can see exactly where you're coming from - I've been lucky, I guess, getting into the liquefied gases trades when I did, back in 1989. We have so many Vetting Inspections that situations like that anchor cranker's disgusting state just don't (usually) happen - although this present ship of mine was in a pretty bad way when I took her over in January last year. Previous owners had spent as little as possible on her after having her 'from new' - everything we looked at was in a poor way - indeed, I told the Office not to buy her or her sister (just as badly neglected), but the reply was that if we didn't, one of our competitors would. So, here we are. At least they don't have grounds to complain when I order yet more parts - but they still gripe a bit...

 

Was it a company with blue hulls and a 7 pointed star that you were referring to, by any chance?

Your guess on the owner is correct..... Despite the image they like to cultivate of being the gold standard of shipping they had some real horror stories. I did 6 (or was it 7?) years with them and for most of that time was happy and had some great times. I did two years of 6 weeks on/off an anchor handler in Trinidad where we did a rig move once every couple of months then four days at sea doing supply runs and four days alongside in Chaguaramus. Great times. By the time I left the company was changing and it got a lot worse after I left.

 

For all that I did miss marine. When my power station employer relocated me to London followed by the financial crash it was an opportunity to return to marine. They offered me a job back oop North but we ended up really liking Milton Keynes and I like working in London so I applied for, and got a job with LR. When LR relocated to Southampton I left them but LR was a terrific outfit to work for, I learned an enormous amiunt in my time there and consider that I got more out of LR than they did from me. Now I'm with a trade association which is a nice life.

Edited August 6, 2017 by jjb1970

[MarkC]

You're spot on about the image they try to portray - a lot of cash is thrown at their container operations, but their tanker fleet, well...

 

I did about 18 months - 3 trips - on a couple of their gas carriers, through their UK/IOM section. Handed on from being run operated by their own nationals, they were run down and in very bad condition. After a lot of hard work, we had them running more efficiently, reliably and cheaper than the new ships now operated by their own nationals. This caused some, no, a lot, of acrimony in certain quarters.

 

However, we were on 5 month trips with 10 days/month leave, so when Gibsons offered me a C/E position, it was a no-brainer to move on

[New Haven Neil]

As I understand it, she was still 'on the stocks' when Runcimans bought Gibsons. Their bean counters decided that she was a step too far for Gibsons, and so she was sold before even being launched. From what you're saying we dodged a bullet - although we did subsequently build "Traquair"...

 

Despite her foibles she was a great earner, I think they kept her (and the larger Lincolnshire) a long time.  My old man hated her, but could make her run well enough!  The Lincy was nice, dad stood by her when building so I saw a lot of her too, never sailed on her though.  Dad had retired to the coast due to ill health by my day sailing with Bibby's though, finished his years as Chief on a little tanker called the Mobil Lubchem, I think managed by Stevies. 

 

By the sound of those stories I'm glad I was made redundant when I was!  Those air receivers sound lethal.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Bob Horton wasn't it? I seem to remember he was properly hated within the company. I think he later joined the BR board and then Railtrack.

 

And was highly successful in leading Railtrack towards disaster as he led the charge to cream off income into dividends instead of using it to maintain the network.

 

Now another little quiz - which should be very easy for the observant although it might require a tiny bit of research to get a very precise answer.  Taken on the bridge (obviously) who will be the first to say exactly where the ship was when the picture was taken?  (And no - alongside simply won't do.

 

 

 

PS Click on the pic to enlarge it

[MarkC]

Despite her foibles she was a great earner, I think they kept her (and the larger Lincolnshire) a long time.  My old man hated her, but could make her run well enough!  The Lincy was nice, dad stood by her when building so I saw a lot of her too, never sailed on her though.  Dad had retired to the coast due to ill health by my day sailing with Bibby's though, finished his years as Chief on a little tanker called the Mobil Lubchem, I think managed by Stevies. 

 

By the sound of those stories I'm glad I was made redundant when I was!  Those air receivers sound lethal.

 

mobil lubchem.PNG

I remember seeing the Lubchem regularly. Stevies - another long lost company now, of course

 

Air receivers - another horror story - my present ship has an air started Emergency/Harbour Generator, so has separate Air Receivers for that machine, along with an Emergency Air Compressor - a little Lister beastie. The previous owners' staff had obviously had trouble with the safety valves on these Emergency Air Reeivers at some time, so had simply blanked the Safety Valves off and removed the non-return filling valve from the Main Air Receivers, so these Emergency Air Receivers were permanently paralleled with the Main Receivers...

 

One does wonder at the mentality of some supposedly professional people...

[NorthBrit]

 

Now another little quiz - which should be very easy for the observant although it might require a tiny bit of research to get a very precise answer.  Taken on the bridge (obviously) who will be the first to say exactly where the ship was when the picture was taken?  (And no - alongside simply won't do.

 

Kings Dock Swansea?

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

One of the more interesting aspects of working in class is incidents, I ended up finding it profoundly depressing as the vast majority we got were entirely avoidable and heading towards the Darwin award category. When people see in reports that one died and four were injured there is a tendency to downplay the significance of the poor saps who were injured and imagine that they got a sticking plaster and an aspirin and were right. Those injured often receive life changing injuries, anybody who has seen the affects of severe burns and being sprayed with hot heavy fuel and such like will have asked themselves who really were the lucky ones, the survivors or those who died. Over and over again I got involved in fatal incidents or severe burns cases where when I started reviewing or investigating the immediate response was "who the **** would do something that stupid?!" yet these guys were certificated sea farers, all the cases I was involved with were supposedly reputable companies classed by the top tier class societies. Invariably the company would claim nobody knew what was happening, Flag had no idea and class couldn't possibly know and it was the poor sap who'd just barbecued himself who was hung out to dry. And despite the common perception, I found insurers were sometimes the ones who decided that what was going on was a nonsense and stood up for the seafarers in demanding a proper investigation which considered how the operators, class and flag had failed to notice decay and poor practices which clearly went back many years. 

 

A few times I've been asked about getting involved in doing work to sell cadetships to youngsters. I've always found it a difficult situation. On the one hand I do think that a cadetship is an excellent start to a career, you get a decent academic education along with good practical skills. Going to sea doesn't pay superstar wages but it is hardly minimum wage either and you can lead a very comfortable life going to sea. And there is still an attraction to seeing the world. There are all sorts of opportunities for life after the sea, particularly if people are willing to continue studying. On the other hand I think the tonnage tax regime of hiring cadets which companies have zero interest in and with no intent of employing or developing to be shameful, I see the way the industry has gone and think that in spiteof all the positives I wouldn't look at myself in a mirror knowing there were kids abandoned on ships where nobody took an interest in their training and with no social life on-board simply to qualify an owner to get tonnage tax relief. So I've always ducked out of it and continue to politely offer excuses why I can't do it.

[rockershovel]

I'm not surprised in the slightest, by the story about being given sailing instructions minutes before Cut Off Time. There's a a common practice in the oil industry, of only taking decisions when they cannot be further delayed. Sometimes it is inevitable, because things can change quite rapidly. Sometimes it serves no useful purpose whatsoever, but happens anyway.

 

I've been to conduct gyro calibrations and GPS Health Checks on construction or survey vessels which were committed to sailing on the tide, or at a certain time, but couldn't sail without our Report. The Harbour Master, in turn, won't issue clearance to another vessel to commit to that berth until departure is confirmed.

 

I've also known negotiations to be in hand for cargo (particularly if it is being sold on the Spot Market) continue up to the last moment, in the hope of a better price.

 

It's just how the industry works. The marine people see themselves as a self-contained profession, but the Client just sees them as a function.

Edited August 6, 2017 by rockershovel

[jjb1970]

The marine industry is so diverse, and each sector is essentially a stand alone industry with a shared marine heritage. For instance there is very little in common between container operators where the ship is simply one part of a vast, integrated logistic chain, and a bulk carrier operating for a spot trader. Even within sectors, some bulk carriers effectively operate liner services on long term charters to the big mining outfits or purchasers while others operate on the spot market. The cruise sector is part of the tourist and holiday sector and increasingly seems to want to shed any lingering aspects of their marine heritage other than for marketing use (although they're happy to take the tax breaks).

If looking at the offshore O&G sector there is a huge split between marine service companies operating PSVs and AHTSSs, and marine contractor companies operating LCVs, pipe layers, heavy lift vessels, DSVs etc and seldom does the twain meet. Then there is the split between O&G and renewables. In the tanker trades there has always been a huge split between oil major owned/operated tonnage and independent tankers, even though a lot of the independent tankers spend much of their time carrying cargoes for the oil majors.

To me that diversity has always been one of the attractions of shipping.

[jjb1970]

For the gas carrier lovers, a nice shot of four QMax vessels together, that's a lot of LNG capacity (266m3 each), although I still like the Moss type gas ships.

[jjb1970]

Talking about marine contractor vessels, the Seven Viking of Subsea 7 (owned by Eidesvik), nicely illustrates the X bow which is becoming very popular and has now been joined by the X stern.

[phil_sutters]

An initial batch of freighters visiting our local small port of Newhaven, East Sussex. Exports are scrap metal, mainly from South Quay, near the harbour entrance and incinerator bottom waste from North Quay. North Quay also has an aggregates zone in which the major company is Day's Aggregates. As well as imports, they also have incoming rail deliveries of aggregates.

Edited August 6, 2017 by phil_sutters

[New Haven Neil]

e supplier

I remember seeing the Lubchem regularly. Stevies - another long lost company now, of course

 

Air receivers - another horror story - my present ship has an air started Emergency/Harbour Generator, so has separate Air Receivers for that machine, along with an Emergency Air Compressor - a little Lister beastie. The previous owners' staff had obviously had trouble with the safety valves on these Emergency Air Reeivers at some time, so had simply blanked the Safety Valves off and removed the non-return filling valve from the Main Air Receivers, so these Emergency Air Receivers were permanently paralleled with the Main Receivers...

 

One does wonder at the mentality of some supposedly professional people...

Ah, yes....experienced that sort of thing....

 

On a lay-up fortunately, but on the day I joined, shore power was altered as the ship next door was re-activated, there were two sets of 3 phase cables to handle the current.  Said shore side supplier reconnected the cables with two phases crossed, which vaporised the shore power panel as you might imagine.  So we were told to run a genny on dry-dock systems.....which would have been OK if we had enough air - which we didn't, wouldn't start as it was in a very cold environment and power had been off for some time and the air leaked down (or more likely hadn't been bothered to fill first #cough#).  OK, run the emergency compressor (yes, a Lister job!) to fill the auxy air receiver.  Except the cylinder head of that was lying in the workshop, ruined.  A cold night ensued....

[New Haven Neil]

 jjb said....Over and over again I got involved in fatal incidents or severe burns cases where when I started reviewing or investigating the immediate response was "who the **** would do something that stupid?!" yet these guys were certificated sea farers, all the cases I was involved with were supposedly reputable companies classed by the top tier class societies.

 

 

Yeah, the Liverpool Bridge (Derbyshire - yes, that one) had a package boiler explosion when she was new, killed the lecky and the 3rd IIRC.  As I understand they had linked out the low water cut out as it wouldn't fire...WHY WOULD YOU?????  One failing was the gauge glasses were not visible from the firing position, but why oh why wouldn't you check there was actually some water in it?  When I was on it the Coffin feedwater pumps for the big boiler had big chunks missing where the bits of boiler hit them...gruesome reminder. I'm very fussy about the gauge glasses on the 2 foot gauge locos I drive at Groudle!