I seem to have destroyed my ECoS

[njee20]

I bought a second hand ECoS 50000 a while back for not much money as the screen had a load of dead lines on it and the motor driven knobs had stopped working. Took it apart, a couple of broken wires I re-soldered fixed the knobs. Re-seated the ribbon cables to sort the screen out.

 

All good, she veritably sprung into life. I then realised I'd not plugged in the sniffer module thingummy(?), did so whilst it was plugged in (probably a bad idea) and it turned off. No bang, pop, boom, fizz, smoke, fire, or anything else untoward. Since then it won't turn on. Plugging it in it now makes a high frequency buzzing noise, very quiet, can't discern where on the circuit board it's coming from. The power pack appears fine, but the output voltage is tiny - putting a multimeter across the two pins for the LED I'm getting about 0.9v, which seems low? Nothing registering on the track output, plugging in a network cable doesn't work either, no green light on the ethernet port, and nothing on the computer. Buzzing noise (which to be honest could have been there before and could be a total red herring, don't think so though) starts the second the unit is plugged in and stops as soon as it's unplugged. Screen plugged in/unplugged makes no difference at all.

 

Nothing really obviously wrong on the circuit board, the two main capacitors seem ok, would kinda expect to see something damaged somehow. Any obvious thoughts...? 

 

Happy replacing items on the circuit board, nothing to lose, not sure ESU even repair the 50000 any more, and it would be about £1m for a new circuit board anyway.

 

Inside an ECoS:

 

Untitled by njee20, on Flickr

 

Reverse:

Untitled by njee20, on Flickr

 

The whatsit that ruined everything:

 

Untitled by njee20, on Flickr

[GoingUnderground]

I think you may indeed have killed it. Umless an item is definitely Plug'n'Play always turn of the power when inserting daughter boards. Try removing the sniffer module, wiyh yhe power disconnected this time, and see if it works again. Unless you were intending to use the sniffer port, or the booster port or the s88 port, which I think are all on the sniffer daugbter board, you may still be able to use ypur ECoS. Worth a try.

.

[njee20]

Yeah, didn't mean to do it, feeling a bit smug, wasn't really thinking.

 

Doesn't work with it plugged in or unplugged.

[njee20]

Thanks Dutch_Master, yep input voltage is 18v, so all good there. I wondered about those capacitors, the front one above looked a little 'bowed', but they seem good having checked with the multimeter.

 

It certainly seems it's losing virtually all of its voltage somewhere! There are a lot of smaller capacitors, but no obviously blown ones, likewise none of the transistors or diodes show any evidence of damage, which was rather what I'd expect.

[John K]

It's a brick!

John

[njee20]

Helpful, thanks John! It is presently, I'd like to know if it's unbrickable, as it was cheap enough that I'm not too fussed, but may as well endeavour to fix it.

 

Something must be causing the problem. If it can't be fixed then sobeit, but stuff doesn't just break, there must be a cause.

Edited August 27, 2017 by njee20

[njee20]

Great, thanks. Have found a transformer which looks a little worse for wear, so I'll test that.

 

Shallnt be buying another ECoS, they're insanely priced, and whilst I did do something a little daft I'd like to hope it would be harder to destroy it! Had I paid 10 times as much I'd be somewhat annoyed! Didn't need another controller anyway, just took a punt as this one was cheap.

[RAF96]

Welcome to my world njee (NG?). I have killed 3 flaky Elites by cross connecting output terminals whilst 'scoping them on diagnosis.

 

Even with the correct parts in hand, soldering in replacement 8-legged smd chips around 5mm square is challenging.

 

So far - me 0.5, dead Elites 2.5. I can get one side of an H-bridge fettled but not both. But these duff controllers can be fixed if you can diagnose to component level and replace these often tiny parts, then as said earlier even if you can source and replace a PIC chip, you need to be able to reload its code.

 

Rob

[njee20]

Yes, at the point it's PIC chips that are dead I'll certainly admit defeat! I remain hopeful it's more straightforward than that.

 

I've soldered some SMD LEDs into N gauge locos, can't be much worse than that (he says...)!

 

I'll avoid Elites though, lest my experiences mirror yours Rob!

 

And NJEE are my initials, rather than en-gee. Or just call me Nick

Edited August 27, 2017 by njee20

[GoingUnderground]

Great, thanks. Have found a transformer which looks a little worse for wear, so I'll test that.

 

Shallnt be buying another ECoS, they're insanely priced, and whilst I did do something a little daft I'd like to hope it would be harder to destroy it! Had I paid 10 times as much I'd be somewhat annoyed! Didn't need another controller anyway, just took a punt as this one was cheap.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, but what you did was understandable if youre not used to working with electronics, but very foolish, and is simply not done because of the risk of causing severe damage.

 

Very few electronic components would survive what you did, no matter who made them. Modern electronics can be damaged by static electricity, never mind being inserted into live circuits. That's why new chips and boards come in conductive packaging, and engineers use anti-static wrist bands connected to the metalwork when working on things like PCs.

 

You broke the rules and got caught out.

[njee20]

Yep, but I plugged in a module which is designed to be plugged in by the user, this wasn't whilst messing around with the unit in its component parts, when I'd be more sympathetic. This was a complete controller into which I plugged an item they sell after market. I can't even find a warning to ensure it's turned off when you do so.

 

It was a mistake, I've said as much (now 3 times), but I'd expect a £600 device to have better overload protection for hamfisted idiots. Again, not looking for sympathy, attempting to fix.

[GoingUnderground]

AFAIK, and I do have an ECoS 50000, the sniffer module was never supplied as a user add-in. It was always a factory fitted component. I've never seen any retrofit option offered by ESU for the module, nor have I ever seen user instructions on how to install it as there never was any need for them. Does your car's driver's manual tell you how to fit the gearbox or cylinder head? Of course it doesn't. They're factory fitted parts, even though an owner with the right tools could remove or fit them.

 

The ECoS 50000 user manual from 2007 says on page 4 "Do not attempt to open ECoS. Innapropriate hamdling may lead to damage of the command station.". There's your warning.

 

By comparison, the user manual for fitting the aftermarket transceiver card for the ECoS Control Radio has a very clear and unambiguous warnings that the ECoS should be switched off before installing the receiver module, and the batteries removed from their compartment.

 

If you have a computer, try opening it up and removing and refitting a few components whilst it is powered up. You'll find it too goes belly up. You just don't do that to any electronics if you want them to work afterwards.

 

I'm afraid you may be a candidate for a "Darwin Award".

[njee20]

Little harsh, I've not killed myself!

 

Your post is the equivalent of someone saying "I dropped my loco, trying to fix it" and you turning up and saying "you shouldn't have dropped it". No . For the 5th time I'm not looking for advice on what caused the problem. Maybe it'll sink in eventually.

 

I'm not particularly fussed about the whys and wherefores, I have a duff bit of kit, I bought it semi working for the sole purpose of thinking I'd have a look at it. I didn't do the damage opening the controller, that I had previously opened it is totally inconsequential. I removed the sniffer module by hand, it just unclips. If that's what ESU deem as "opening" they're in a world of litigation trouble, I imagine most people are just far too reluctant to do anything (and rightly so) to their exorbitantly priced controller.

 

Your computer analogy is therefore totally flawed, this wasn't something that occurred whilst I had it in bits, it's more akin to remove a USB device whilst powered. We all know you should "click to safely remove this hardware", but no one has in the last 10 years.

 

The annoying thing about this forum is the bloody idiots contributing nothing whatsoever. It's normally me, makes a change it's not. I'm desperately trying to find a point to your posts. But I'm failing. So, kindly do one, ta! Xxx

Edited August 27, 2017 by njee20

[GoingUnderground]

USB, Firewire, SATA, eSATA, SD cards? All intended to be 'hotpluggable'. Thus your strongly worded statement is factually incorrect. I'll leave it at that.

That is totally uncalled for! So far I haven't seen any constructive contribution in your messages about solving the problem the OP stipulated, or perhaps I've missed it? Would it help re-reading the OP and consequent messages to get a clear idea of the situation?

Your comparisons are all totally invalid. As you said yourself, they're all devices designed to be hot pluggable by users operating the device in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions when the device is powered up.

 

The sniffer board is nothing like your examples. It's a daughter board that is factory fitted by ESU. It's not intended to be hot pluggable. You can only get at the module if you unclip its cover from the underside of the ECoS. In normal use it is totally inaccessible to users when the ECoS is being used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

[njee20]

It came out with the 'cover'... anyway, please go away, you really aren't contributing anything.

 

Thanks to Dutch_Master's advice I've found a potential culprit if not the culprit, this doesn't look over healthy (sorry about dodgy phone photo):

 

Untitled by njee20, on Flickr

 

There's 0 voltage over it whilst the identical ones around it read >10v. The question is... what is it?! My Google-fu is failing me. Writing on it says:

 

IOR P842H

H4W3

F7103

[Dungrange]

The IOR seems to imply that the chip is made by International Rectifier (IR).  The 'O' seems to be a logo rather than the letter O

 

https://www.elnec.com/en/support/ic-logos/manufacturer-description/?manuf=International+Rectifier+%28IR%29

 

I'm not sure about the rest.

[Georgeconna]

Good Luck. I hope that's your problem, Fair play for Trying to Remedy it too.

[RAF96]

It appears to be a dual mosfet same as I had fail on my Elite. The two together form an H- bridge switching circuit.

 

See here for your part - http://datasheetz.com/data/Discrete%20Semiconductor%20Products/MOSFETs%20-%20Arrays/IRF7103-datasheetz.html

 

Beware of using too much airflow on a hot air gun soldering iron as I managed to clear several components off the board.

 

You can just about solder them in using a 1.2mm tip on a 15W iron and a good magnifier.

 

Rob

Edited August 28, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[10000]

USB, Firewire, SATA, eSATA, SD cards? All intended to be 'hotpluggable'. Thus your strongly worded statement is factually incorrect. I'll leave it at that.

That is totally uncalled for! So far I haven't seen any constructive contribution in your messages about solving the problem the OP stipulated, or perhaps I've missed it? Would it help re-reading the OP and consequent messages to get a clear idea of the situation?

 

I think he was referring to IDE and PCI cards that plug into the motherboard not devices designed as external devices.

 

But having said that all my years in IT working on the innards of a PC including replacing CPU's I never ever wore a grounding lead. The advice I was given by a PC engineer (remember this in the UK so earthed mains leads) was make sure its turned off.

Leave the mains lead plugged in to PC and Power socket. 

Discharge yourself on something grounded before touching anything sensitive.

 

Also good luck with the repair

Edited August 28, 2017 by 10000

[Crosland]

Definitely a dual N-channel MOSFET as identified by Rob.

 

For an 8-pin SO I would use a sharp scalpel and cut through each leg, tidy up and then hand solder the replacement. No need for hot air in this case. Make sure you fit the new one the correct way round

 

The photo looks like someone has already had a go, rather than a blown chip. The soldering is untidy and the black residue is burnt flux indiciating a little too much heat.

[njee20]

Amazing, thanks guys, really helpful. Nothing to lose, so let's see what happens.