No trains between MK and Euston

[Nearholmer]

One option sometimes used is to terminate all the 'intercity' services at MK, then run a shuttle using 12 car emus to WJ. It is better than nothing, and if run at 15 or 20 minute intervals has surprisingly high capacity, but, perhaps in contradiction to some of the foregoing, WJ is a fairly rubbish place to deposit zillions of people. The station is very cramped, the onward DC service of low capacity, and the Met station is a fair hike, not easy for the unfamiliar, and not viable with luggage, or for anyone a bit less that fully fit. Added to which, WJ is a really bad place from which to operate bus/coach shuttles, because they have to fight through thick traffic, the bus bay is very cramped, and there isn't anywhere very obvious to shuttle to.

 

In short, it's cr*p being turfed out at MK, but at least it's pretty simple to institute onward coaches to Luton Airport station, on good roads with less-than-London traffic, and it might actually be worse to be be turfed out at WJ.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Bernard Lamb]

One side affect of the shut down was that there were several 100 copies of the Metro at Hemel station this morning.

A quick look at the scene of the fire as I went past was that it must have been very intense as only a small pile of ash remains.

It appears as thought the building collapsed in on itself.

The end wall nearest to the track, it is very near to the track, that showed up in the item on the news, is still standing.

I presume that the shut down remained after the fire had been put out until this wall could be inspected and declar4ed safe. First reports were that it would have to be demolished before trains could run. If the gas cylinders had exploded when a train was passing it could have been very serious.

Bernard

[PenrithBeacon]

I went past Headstone Lane late this afternoon and the building has been shuttered up and secured.

 

Regards

[royaloak]

Apparently referred to by some airline aircrew as SLF (Self Loading Freight). When did railways ever care about passengers? I was going to say never but the truer answer is  only when a rival was trying to snaffle them.

I have just left another forum because of posts like yours, I thought this one was about railway modelling and was kept strictly in line, as a train driver who goes out of his way to 'get the job done' and get the passengers to their destination, I frankly find your post an insult!

Edited September 17, 2017 by royaloak

[royaloak]

The fire was at Headstone Lane, close to H&W station. That is nowhere near Watford Junction station and I'd have hoped that one of the contingency plans for a closure of the WCML south of Watford Junction would be to keep a service to Watford to get people in/out via the overground.

I know station staff were telling passengers that they were trying to organise buses between MK Central and Luton but that doesn't help those from other stations. Using the Marston Vale line as an alternative route is hamstrung by the capacity of that line, basically an hourly service with a single car train.

On the nature of companies, good companies in a competitive market take customer service very seriously as their financial future depends on retaining those customers. The passenger railway isn't really a private entity, it is more a government managed concession with service delivery outsourced to private companies supplying a de-facto monopoly service to many of their passengers.

Is Watford jn set up to handle full trainloads of passengers transferring from the Mainline to the Overground?

 

Is the Overground set up to handle full trainloads of passengers transferring from the Mainline onto it?

 

Are the junctions at Watford set up for trains to easily reverse?

 

I would hazard a guess that the answer is no!

 

We are not talking about one or two trainloads here, we are talking about full trains arriving every few minutes for hour after hour and all those passengers trying to get onto the Overground trains!

Edited September 17, 2017 by royaloak

[caradoc]

Fair points royaloak, but equally is Milton Keynes set up to handle that same number of passengers detraining, exiting the station and boarding road coaches in the station forecourt, assuming enough coaches could be sourced to transport that number of passengers ? Plus there is the issue of no service, at all, to any of the stations between Milton Keynes and Watford Jc. At least at Watford Jc proper passenger information for onward services would be available, and while the Class 378s may not have that many seats they are high capacity sets, all now being 5 cars. And if capacity did become a serious issue, with some joined-up thinking (!) they could run fast between Harrow and Euston, with the intermediate stations still served by the Bakerloo Line. 

[Bernard Lamb]

Is Watford jn set up to handle full trainloads of passengers transferring from the Mainline to the Overground?

Watford can barely cope with twenty people getting off a train let alone if you tried to get all the passengers off one and safely out off the station.

You have to leave a fairly narrow platform, go through a set of doors and the turn at 90 degrees to go down a flight od steps, You then have to go through a passage to get out or up another flight of stairs to reach the Overground platforms.

Bernard

[Pete the Elaner]

Fair points royaloak, but equally is Milton Keynes set up to handle that same number of passengers detraining, exiting the station and boarding road coaches in the station forecourt, assuming enough coaches could be sourced to transport that number of passengers ?

I know both stations quite well & the answer is that MK is much better than WJ for this.type of situation.

 

The bottleneck at MK would be the staircases from platform to the walkway.

Since the re-modelling around 2007, MK has 6 platforms accessible to the WCML compared to WJ's 4.

The station forecourt has about 12 bus stops & the old bus station is less than a 5 minute walk away. I am not sure if this could be used The M1 Junctions can be a little busy but the A5 is a lot closer, goes towards Luton (& meets the M1 at the new J11A) & it is much less congested.

 

WJ has a smaller station forecourt, narrower staircases to platforms, a smaller walkway to the station building, a smaller station building & is a lot harder to get to by road, even outside of peak periods.

[jjb1970]

Is Watford jn set up to handle full trainloads of passengers transferring from the Mainline to the Overground?

 

Is the Overground set up to handle full trainloads of passengers transferring from the Mainline onto it?

 

Are the junctions at Watford set up for trains to easily reverse?

 

I would hazard a guess that the answer is no!

 

We are not talking about one or two trainloads here, we are talking about full trains arriving every few minutes for hour after hour and all those passengers trying to get onto the Overground trains!

 

I don't think anybody would expect the full service to WJ, but something like a half hourly 350 shuttle would at least maintain a lifeline for those stations south of MK Central and offer an option to those passengers who'd rather go that way. When things go pear shaped like that (and btw, I do not blame the railway for having to close the line at Headstone Lane nor for that causing a lot of disruption) a lot of people will try to avoid travelling. If looking at MK Central, even if you find enough buses at short notice to move all the Virgin and LM passengers onto replacement buses to Luton there would be huge problems getting that many buses through the bus stops quickly enough to service all passengers.

[The Stationmaster]

Fair points royaloak, but equally is Milton Keynes set up to handle that same number of passengers detraining, exiting the station and boarding road coaches in the station forecourt, assuming enough coaches could be sourced to transport that number of passengers ? Plus there is the issue of no service, at all, to any of the stations between Milton Keynes and Watford Jc. At least at Watford Jc proper passenger information for onward services would be available, and while the Class 378s may not have that many seats they are high capacity sets, all now being 5 cars. And if capacity did become a serious issue, with some joined-up thinking (!) they could run fast between Harrow and Euston, with the intermediate stations still served by the Bakerloo Line. 

 

The big problem is not so much having room for 'buses to call and turnround etc but actually being able to ay hands on any, let alone sufficient to lift the passenger load of a full passenger service that can't get to Euston.  Very easy to forget that 'bus and coach operators rarely keep vehicles standing around on spec and they definitely can't keep drivers on that basis.  If you need to hire in replacement road transport you need to match the road operators deadlines - they can be measured in weeks, not hours.