spikey Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) My 00 layout is now at the stage where the next thing is track painting prior to ballasting, so it's paint-buying time. I'm on a very tight budget here, but I'm only concerned with track and lineside stuff like retaining walls. I have no need of "authentic" colours, so it occurs to me that one way to reduce the expense would be to buy the minimum number of colours and mix them as required. But what make and colours to go for apart from black, white and a brown? Suggestions please, gents, bearing in mind that this is for brushing and I'm happier with enamels rather than acrylics but I don't trust Humbrol. I need to buy online, and half a dozen or so in one hit to make the most of the delivery charge. Edited September 30, 2017 by spikey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted September 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2017 I would certainly add red and blue (and probably yellow to get a full spectrum). White and Black will give you awide range of greys but i think they tend to be very flat colours. The addition of the slightest amount of red (and I really mean slightest) will give a grey that is far warmer. Similarly a touch of blue will give greys that are much more like slate (whether light or dark). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Do not buy "model paints" in tiny tins! Match pots of emulsion are cheap and very good for scenery etc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 My artistic daughter swears by Daler Rowney System 3 for most of the work she does which includes 3D stuff on plastic, card etc usually from this supplier. http://www.artifolk.co.uk/paints/acrylic-paints/individual-acrylic/daler-rowney-system-3-acrylic-59ml.htm The minium colours to get would be process yellow, processs cyan and process magenta, which along with black and zinc mixing white enable you to produce practically any colour. Obviously if you are going to use a lot of a particular colour, ie for a road surface then buy a tube of a suitable grey and adjust it by mixing in a little of the basic colours. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Thanks for the colour suggestions, chaps. I did say it was enamels I'm after, but that's really because that's what I used to use first time round 30 years ago (when you could rely on Humbrol). Point taken about the small quantities though, so I guess I need to ask whether acylics are any good for painting track? I've only ever used acylics on plastic, and then only Tamiya acrylics ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted September 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2017 I have used enamel and Tamiya Acrylics on track (different layouts) and appart from a different shade of grunge I could not tell the difference. The acrylic was much easier to handle though so this would be my personal preference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Acrylics are ideal for track and scenery but don't mix brands as there are different compositions of acrylics which can cause reactions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) If you use enamles you need matt for the track. I don't like Humbrol these day's. A good place to look if you want acrylics is game's workshop's they keep a wide range of colours. Edited September 30, 2017 by crompton 33 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted September 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2017 If you don't like Humbrol you should maybe try Revell enamels. They come in similarly small tinlets but, in my experience, their quality can be relied on. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 If you don't like Humbrol you should maybe try Revell enamels. They come in similarly small tinlets but, in my experience, their quality can be relied on. David These day's i stick to Railmatch or Phoenix paints . Plus the odd pot of acrylic from the games workshop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) My artistic daughter swears by Daler Rowney System 3 for most of the work she does which includes 3D stuff on plastic, card etc usually from this supplier. http://www.artifolk.co.uk/paints/acrylic-paints/individual-acrylic/daler-rowney-system-3-acrylic-59ml.htm The minium colours to get would be process yellow, processs cyan and process magenta, which along with black and zinc mixing white enable you to produce practically any colour. Obviously if you are going to use a lot of a particular colour, ie for a road surface then buy a tube of a suitable grey and adjust it by mixing in a little of the basic colours. Brian Process colours are printers ink colours that makes up the CMY of CMYK the four colour process inks used for litho printing. For paint mixing you want the primary, not the process, colours so primary red, primary blue and primary yellow plus black, white and any metallics you might care to add. However, the paint chart Brian links to does itself call the primary colours process colours. Odd that as it's quite wrong and goes against the conventions that describe colour theory – bad mistake for an artists' colour supplier. So the process colours they list are in fact the primary colours. Although you'll be able to mix anything in theory from just five hues you might find it an awful lot of effort. Why are you so against acrylics? They are much easier to mix than oil based enamels and since you could buy artist colours they could work out cheaper. That written artists acrylics are designed to have varying amounts of 'body' which effectively means they have less pigment than modelling specific acrylics making them less useful in many modelling applications. Edited September 30, 2017 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Tamiya acrylics are alcohol based, not water based - so they cant really be mixed with other brands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) ... Why are you so against acrylics? ... I'm not, actually. It's just that I used to use enamels (because that's what model paints were), and I recently had a go on Wilko's cheapo acrylics in tubes with which I was singularly unimpressed. So OK then, out with the bus pass and off to the nearest artists' suppliers on Monday to splash out on a couple of tubes of halfway-decent acrylics and see how I get on. Is it just a case of mixing a splodge of paint and a drop or two of water until it's thin enough to paint with? Edited October 1, 2017 by spikey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) Ah yes if you buy paint that is cheap it will have lots of body and not much pigment. It is a simple as a splodge of paint and thin with water. You can paint with it neat if you wish – the paint is designed to enable impasto technique, ie. very thickly applied paint often applied with a painting knife. I can't recall the name off the top of my head but one brand is designed to have extra body, it might be Liquitex. One thing I would suggest is if you are under-painting areas of bare ground is to paint rather lighter than you may initially think. This is where scaled colour does matter IMHO. Aim to model the colours as you see them in the real world at around 50+ yards distant. If it has rained the ground at your feet may well look dark and it's tempting to copy that but you're trying to capture the impression of the whole scene and during daylight hours the scene is bathed in light, even more so if you are modelling summer. Edited October 1, 2017 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefromacrossthepond Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I would add: burnt & raw sienna, burnt & raw umber. With black, white and the primary colors, you would have a great set to practice with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just by way of an update, I ordered a few tubes of Daler System 3 acrylic as recommended by Brian and they seem to be just the job. FWIW I didn't get them from the linked supplier on account of several reviews mentioning erratic delivery times, but from artdiscount.co.uk. Brilliant service at a very good price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 The best acrylic paints I find are those made by Vallejo. Very fine pigment and good coverage. No doubt - but as I originally made clear, I'm on a very tight budget here and have no need of "authentic" colours, so Daler-Rowney System 3 at one third the price of Vallejo will do me nicely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I use both Vallejo and artists quality acrylics. The former for model figures, vehicles etc and the latter for scenery although I do use some Vallejo when making trees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Having painted a couple of backscenes in acrylics I would suggest getting a bottle of flow enhancer, it extends the working time and thins the paint with no loss of coverage. My personal preference is for Windsor & Newton Professional Acrylic range. These paints come in 60ml tubes, have a very heavy pigment content so a little goes a very long way - the white will cover lamp black in a single coat. The biggest single advantage is that there is no colour shift ie, the paint doesn't get darker as it dries which is really uesful if your trying to match an existing colour.. The only downside is that they aren't cheap - around £7-8 unless you get Cerulean blue which is £15 a tube. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefromacrossthepond Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just by way of an update, I ordered a few tubes of Daler System 3 acrylic as recommended by Brian and they seem to be just the job. FWIW I didn't get them from the linked supplier on account of several reviews mentioning erratic delivery times, but from artdiscount.co.uk. Brilliant service at a very good price Make sure you post your findings/thoughts on here. My first adventure with acrylics (cheap artist tubes on sale) was quite the process of trial and error. Like almost everything in this hobby, my first efforts were less than optimal, but each following experiment got better and better. I will admit at first I thought "paint is paint", but painting with acrylics requires a different skillset than enamels, not more/less difficult, just different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2017 No doubt - but as I originally made clear, I'm on a very tight budget here and have no need of "authentic" colours, so Daler-Rowney System 3 at one third the price of Vallejo will do me nicely Vallejo paints are lovely for brush-painting models; not because of the choice of colors but because it's easy to get a nice smooth finish which doesn't obscure fine details. I think none of this is necessary for what you're doing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 Make sure you post your findings/thoughts on here. Glad to. So far all I've had chance to do is mix up two colours I'm happy with, in the sense that the colours are about right when wet. I have a sleeper colour and a rusty rail colour. However, two things have become apparent, which are rather disappointing. One is that the paint I'm using, Daler Rowney System 3, dries to what I'd call a satin finish rather than the matt I need. And the other is that it looks like I'm going to end up with the sleepers having to be darker than I wanted, on account of anything lighter doesn't really cover the black that Peco mould their sleepers in. Anybody know a way of matting artist's acrylics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 Further to my above post, I've now had a bit more of a play and there's no way I can get acceptable covering power without very noticeable brushmarks. So much for the idea that I'd save money by mixing artists' acrylics to make the colours I need rather than forking out £3 a time for 15ml pots of proper model paint ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I haven't yet tried it myself (I intend to) but I recall someone (Iain Robinson I think) recommending Gouache paints, which are supposed to be opaque and dry properly matt. There's also acrylic Gouache, which is similar but waterproof. Has someone out there used them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 You could try spraying the track with an aerosol primer (Halfords?) so as to give a paler starting point perhaps Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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