Bachmann 21 pin decoder writing - ok, working loco - no

[MarkNewZealand]

Hi Everyone

 

I'm still new to the DCC decoder setup, so when things don't go right i'm left scratching my head.

 

I recently purchased a Bachmann Class 66 loco with DCC fitted. I put the loco on the programming track and changed the decoder address (Running a Hornby Elite unit). All seemed normal in the setup.

 

When i put the loco on the track all of the lights come on and there is a humming sound. The loco will not respond to the controller. I did try and reset the decoder (CV8 to 8, which i read online). Went through the process again with the same outcome.

 

Not sure where to go from here, which is why I've turned to the forum. Can anyone provide some suggestions on what to do, or is the decoder fried?

 

Thanks 

 

Mark

[RAF96]

Humming is normally associated with a DC model sitting on a DCC track, as the motor protests about being hit with a pseudo AC voltage, so maybe your DCC Fitted is actually DCC Ready (i.e. Ready to be fitted).

 

 

If you can read back the new address then you know your loco is decoder equipped and that the previous programming worked. Edit: if your reset worked then the loco should respond to address 3 if not the new address.

 

 

Else the frying you fear could be the motor not the decoder if one is not installed.

​Rob

Edited November 27, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[MarkNewZealand]

H

 

Humming is normally associated with a DC model sitting on a DCC track, as the motor protests about being hit with a pseudo AC voltage, so maybe your DCC Fitted is actually DCC Ready (i.e. Ready to be fitted).

 

 

If you can read back the new address then you know your loco is decoder equipped and that the previous programming worked. Edit: if your reset worked then the loco should respond to address 3 if not the new address.

 

 

Else the frying you fear could be the motor not the decoder if one is not installed.

​Rob

Hi Rob, I did think that, but the box has the 21 pin logo on it. Usually the "ready ones" have it written on the box. When it was writing the address the lights were going on and off and then went off after the writing had finished, so would that suggest that a decoder is fitted?

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[Nigelcliffe]

H

 

Hi Rob, I did think that, but the box has the 21 pin logo on it. Usually the "ready ones" have it written on the box. When it was writing the address the lights were going on and off and then went off after the writing had finished, so would that suggest that a decoder is fitted?

 

Cheers

 

Mark

 

No, flashing lights can mean anything.  Without a decoder they mean "power on, power off, power on, power off" which is exactly what a programming pulse looks like. 

 

You can determine whether there is a decoder fitted by READING a CV back, such as the address, or the decoder's maker (CV8).   If it doesn't read, then there is either no decoder, or the decoder is faulty, or (in a very few cases) its a crap antique decoder design which can't do read-back.   

[MarkNewZealand]

No, flashing lights can mean anything.  Without a decoder they mean "power on, power off, power on, power off" which is exactly what a programming pulse looks like. 

 

You can determine whether there is a decoder fitted by READING a CV back, such as the address, or the decoder's maker (CV8).   If it doesn't read, then there is either no decoder, or the decoder is faulty, or (in a very few cases) its a crap antique decoder design which can't do read-back.   

Thanks for your input Nigel. I will try that out tomorrow.

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[10000]

Hum or more of a buzzing.

 

Hum is something I associate with a motor trying to turn but something is stopping it.

 

Buzzing  - DC loco on DCC. 

 

If its all lights coming on that sounds like a DC loco.

 

I've never bought a Bachmann DCC fitted but isn't there something about the code number that indicates it DCC fitted.

 

The 21 over DCC logo means it has a 21 pin plug in, not that it is fitted with a decoder

Edited November 27, 2017 by 10000

[amdaley]

Take the body off & see if a decoder is fitted.

The 21 pin on the box tells you it will take a 21 pin decoder.

Edited November 27, 2017 by amdaley

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...When i put the loco on the track all of the lights come on and there is a humming sound. The loco will not respond to the controller...

 Reinforcing what has already been posted: that alone suggests very strongly that there is no decoder fitted, and your first action should be to take the body off and check inside, rather than risk damage by exposing the motor to DCC track power.

 

Even if the box says 'DCC on board', it is quite possible for there to be a factory error in packing a loco in the box...

 

There is a second question raised by this problem. What do DCC systems 'report' if a loco without a decoder is put on programme track, and an address change is attempted? The Lenz 100 definitely gives an error - having accidentally done this once! - though I don't recall the fault code as 'twas some time past and I am not by the layout at present to repeat the experiment.

[RAF96]

Hornby Elite would return XXX or 255 if it couldn't read a CV value.

Rob

Edited November 28, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[John K]

 Reinforcing what has already been posted: that alone suggests very strongly that there is no decoder fitted, and your first action should be to take the body off and check inside, rather than risk damage by exposing the motor to DCC track power.

 

Even if the box says 'DCC on board', it is quite possible for there to be a factory error in packing a loco in the box...

 

There is a second question raised by this problem. What do DCC systems 'report' if a loco without a decoder is put on programme track, and an address change is attempted? The Lenz 100 definitely gives an error - having accidentally done this once! - though I don't recall the fault code as 'twas some time past and I am not by the layout at present to repeat the experiment.

In the event of no decoder, or a bricked decoder, Lenz will return 'Err02'

John K

[Dagworth]

In the event of no decoder, or a bricked decoder, Lenz will return 'Err02'

John K

and a loco with no decoder fitted should return Err01 (Short)

 

Andi

[MarkNewZealand]

Hi All

 

A quick update on the original question. Well the short answer was there wasn't a chip on board. I'd been lead a bum-steer by the person I purchased it off. But the fun and games came when I couldn't undo the screws holding the body on. They were so bl**dy tight they wouldn't budge.

 

It looks as though this is a common Bachmann problem and has been covered on here in the forums. A note to Bachmann got a less than useful response saying yes they are and if you can't get them out send it back. 

 

Anyway, the guys at my local club couldn't shift them either, so it was out with the Dremel and a very steady hand to drill the screw heads out. The upshot was that they came out with some persuasion and with only a little collateral damage to the bogies (melting).

 

The chip went in and thankfully no damage...phew.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input on the original question.

 

Cheers

 

Mark