Traction tips

[Steamplug]

Hi all, looking for some advice I have a 1:30 incline leading into my reversing loop and some of my stock Hornby loco's are struggling when fully loaded 4+ coaches. Any advice on increasing the traction of these locos?

[HLT 0109]

Double-heading or banking is successful, but is perhaps not favoured for a continuous run.  DCC Concepts make PowerBase which is a magnetic strip installed under the track and requires a magnet to be fixed beneath the loco, but could be expensive and not much help if track laying is already complete.  You could try adding a little weight over the loco's driving wheels - I am guessing your locos are steam era because the diesels cope much better with inclines.  If you can find a way of hanging some weight temporarily over the boiler of the loco, you will find out if it is worth hiding some weight inside the loco.  My Bachmann steamers cope better with my incline than Hornby's

 

Harold.

[DCB]

I have the same problem with a 1 in 36 ish gradient,  I put a video on youTube of a Bachmann Tornado slipping to a stand with 5 coaches while a 1960s Triang Britannia sailed past with 10 or more on.     Sequentially I add lead weights to locos and reduce the weight and drag of tenders by sawing lumps off tender chassis or replacing the Hornby chassis with Triang trailing bogie castings which are a direct replacement.  Recent Hornby Black 5 and 10XX County had their haulage just about doubled to taking a 6 coach rake up the 1 in 36 by adding weight and removing tender pickups, and the 42XX improved greatly from 15 to 30 plus wagons on the l1 in 100 "level" section.

The weight needs to be centred over the driving wheels so lots of weight under the cab on 4-6-0s and maybe rest the weight of the front of the tender on the back of the loco chassis.  With DCC relocating the decoder in the tender is a good move to free up space for lead in the loco slots of running in.   Powerbase may well be a solution and the old magnadhesion certainly works well on steel track.    Banking and double heading is a solution and 90% of locos will run together if you have a decent controller like a Morley, however some oddities like the Hornby 42XX and Bachmann B1 are too low geared to run with most other locos.  I use a Triang chassis under a Grafar 81XX body and a similar Wills 61XX as bankers but you really need H/D Peco couplings or Kadees as the awful tension lock couplings ride over each other when being propelled.  My bankers also have the couplings arranged to float above the bogie and below the buffer beam to prevent the coupling lifting the pony truck wheels off the rails either will push 7 coaches or 18 heavy wagons up the 1 in 36 so when banked  anything from a 14XX to a 9F can take the maximum load of 21 wagons the reception sidings can take.

Edited November 28, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[RAF96]

Something to look at is the loco to tender link must be well aligned so as the tender is not lifting weight off the drivers. Same goes for any front bogie or pony truck.

 

I have a B1 that would slip on a lumpy flat track with no rake in tow until I adjusted the drawbar.

 

Edit - if  running single motor bogie diesels then it makes a difference if the loco is front or rear wheel drive and pulling or pushing coaches, due to weight transfer through the couplings.

 

​Rob

Edited November 28, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[davetheroad]

I have been wrestling with traction problems for the last few days but mine are on level track!. I am expanding my modelling era from the 1950's to include the period up to the early 70's and spent a lot of money on a rake of 12 Bachmann Blue/grey MK1 coaches. The problem is my Hornby Class 40 just spins its wheels and my Lima Class 40 does better but is not happy starting the rake on curves.

 

The cause of the problem? An equivalent Hornby MK 1 rake is a lot more forgiving and the Lima romps away with it. I set up an incline and conducted rolling tests. Those Bachmanns are dogs!. The Hornby's with metal or plastic wheels roll a lot further and surprisingly the plastic wheels on RR models are best of all. Then there is weight, the Bachmanns are all at least 30g heavier than the Hornby's and I can't see any reason why? I have spent a agonising couple of days removing the 33g ballast weights. Bachmann really don't make it easy! Now the coaches are about 125g, similar to the Hornby's. I also fettled the bogies

 

I am now doing rolling tests and the Bachmann's are a bit better but not much. There may be light at the end of the tunnel, I fitted Hornby metal wheels and it improved matters, further testing is needed but I notice the Hornby axle length is shorter so Bachmann wheel sets are rubbish?. More testing is needed and I think I will fit a set of Hornby plastic wheels just to see what happens.

 

The second stage will be improving the traction of the locos if fettling the coaches does not work.

 

edit - most of the coaches have a preferred direction of movement, they offer more resistance depending on which is the 'front' end,. I wonder why?

Edited November 28, 2017 by davetheroad

[HLT 0109]

I have been wrestling with traction problems for the last few days but mine are on level track!. I am expanding my modelling era from the 1950's to include the period up to the early 70's and spent a lot of money on a rake of 12 Bachmann Blue/grey MK1 coaches. The problem is my Hornby Class 40 just spins its wheels and my Lima Class 40 does better but is not happy starting the rake on curves.

 

The cause of the problem? An equivalent Hornby MK 1 rake is a lot more forgiving and the Lima romps away with it. I set up an incline and conducted rolling tests. Those Bachmanns are dogs!. The Hornby's with metal or plastic wheels roll a lot further and surprisingly the plastic wheels on RR models are best of all. Then there is weight, the Bachmanns are all at least 30g heavier than the Hornby's and I can't see any reason why? I have spent a agonising couple of days removing the 33g ballast weights. Bachmann really don't make it easy! Now the coaches are about 125g, similar to the Hornby's. I also fettled the bogies

 

I am now doing rolling tests and the Bachmann's are a bit better but not much. There may be light at the end of the tunnel, I fitted Hornby metal wheels and it improved matters, further testing is needed but I notice the Hornby axle length is shorter so Bachmann wheel sets are rubbish?. More testing is needed and I think I will fit a set of Hornby plastic wheels just to see what happens.

 

The second stage will be improving the traction of the locos if fettling the coaches does not work.

 

edit - most of the coaches have a preferred direction of movement, they offer more resistance depending on which is the 'front' end,. I wonder why?

 

Dave, if the wheelsets are binding in the bogies, I have found these reemers from DCC Concepts helpful: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two/  You may care to give them a try.

 

Harold.

[davefrk]

Some of the time it is the stock that is the problem not the locos. Check the free running of that coaching stock, does it run back down the 1:30 slope, try each one individually and examine the wheels for drag against any brake shoes, coach floor or bogie sideframe. I made a huge difference to my 10 coach Bachmann rakes, so much so that the same locos could haul two rakes - 20 coaches. The record was 34 coaches with a kit built Britannia which had no extra weight added.

Gently clean the pinpoint hole out and add a tiny drop of Carrs white grease which is suitable for plastic and watch them roll.

 

Dave Franks. 

[davetheroad]

Dave, if the wheelsets are binding in the bogies, I have found these reemers from DCC Concepts helpful: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two/  You may care to give them a try.

 

Harold.

 

Thanks, I will be ordering tomorrow

 

 

edit - no stock anywhere

Edited November 29, 2017 by davetheroad

[Steamplug]

Thanks for all the tips and advice, ive been having a play over the last few days with different set ups generally the same rolling stock but different locos and weight configs.....

 

My Hornby A4 Gadwall is reasonable however slips with 4 coaches (Hornby Pullmans) ive liberated a weight from an old lima class 37 which I fixed to the top of the boiler with white tac for testing purposes with this setup I can get to 5 coaches. My Hornby tornado pulls better but again slips on 5, the TTS duke of Gloucester struggles to pull 3 coaches and this one isn't slipping its stalling not sure if I can up the power to the motor as it seems severely underpowered.

 

Given the incline is on my mainline ive had no choice but to alter the gradient so went to a 1:40 which is much better all round my gadwall and tornado can pull 9 with a little weight for traction, the Duke does 4 before running out of steam (must be a loco issue).

 

So my next question does anyone recommend weights which I could fix to the inside of the boiler?

With regard the duke any thoughts would be appreciated.

[HLT 0109]

I have a Railroad A4 (Falcon) that climbs an incline as if its wheels are greased; I stuffed as much Blu Tack into the smoke box as i could and it had some benefit - I woouldn't like to have to get it all out again.  Blu Tack has the benefit of being quite dense and therefore relatively heavy for its size.  You could use lead shot (perhaps there is a a lead-free substitute) but there are some comments on RMWeb that some glues causse problems with over time.

 

Just re-discovered this product:

 

There you go - Blu Tack and Liquid Gravity!

Edited December 3, 2017 by HLT 0109

[HLT 0109]

Thanks, I will be ordering tomorrow

 

 

edit - no stock anywhere

Dave,

 

Did you see this in another thread? https://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner_2

[tamperman36]

Another possible option would be to fit a power bogie under a brake coach to give a little extra power to the train. The idea has been done elsewear on this site if you want some more info.

[davetheroad]

Dave,

 

Did you see this in another thread? https://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner_2

 

Thanks I looked at that but it looks as if it could foul on the plastic in the centre of some bogies/chassis. The DCC concepts one looks more versatile and hopefully stocks will reappear in a year or so!

[davetheroad]

Another possible option would be to fit a power bogie under a brake coach to give a little extra power to the train. The idea has been done elsewear on this site if you want some more info.

 

Are power bogies for MK1 coaches available? Or do you just use a DMU one?

 

My issue with traction is because all my locos are converted to battery power and radio control. Old Lima or Hornby Railroad ones are good for conversion because there is basically empty space inside the body. This means you have a power bogie with 2 or 4 traction tyres. Luckily all my locos including the steam outline ones can pull the loads I want them to. The problem with centre motor designs is there is so much metal in there that you can't find room for the batteries.

[DCB]

 

 

So my next question does anyone recommend weights which I could fix to the inside of the boiler?

With regard the duke any thoughts would be appreciated.

Lead, Lead flashing or sheet lead is good,  I melt car wheel balance weights into moulds with a blow lamp but that is because I have lots of them (and a wheel balancer)

I hammer the flashing to fold it into shapes which will fit available spaces,  The glue to use can cause issues, I tend to shape the weights to fit s they don't need glue but where I do have to glue it I use Evostick Pipe Weld (sparingly) as I have seen boilers etc distort with other glues.

[Sam Moss]

Thanks I looked at that but it looks as if it could foul on the plastic in the centre of some bogies/chassis. The DCC concepts one looks more versatile and hopefully stocks will reappear in a year or so!

 

 

Double-heading or banking is successful, but is perhaps not favoured for a continuous run.  DCC Concepts make PowerBase which is a magnetic strip installed under the track and requires a magnet to be fixed beneath the loco, but could be expensive and not much help if track laying is already complete.  You could try adding a little weight over the loco's driving wheels - I am guessing your locos are steam era because the diesels cope much better with inclines.  If you can find a way of hanging some weight temporarily over the boiler of the loco, you will find out if it is worth hiding some weight inside the loco.  My Bachmann steamers cope better with my incline than Hornby's

 

Harold.

 

The PowerBase concept is interesting and could be done quite cheaply using thin mild steel strip (something like biscuit tin) and Neo Magnets bought cheap off ebay. Would be a fraction of the price of the legit stuff.

[kevinlms]

Lead, Lead flashing or sheet lead is good,  I melt car wheel balance weights into moulds with a blow lamp but that is because I have lots of them (and a wheel balancer)

I hammer the flashing to fold it into shapes which will fit available spaces,  The glue to use can cause issues, I tend to shape the weights to fit s they don't need glue but where I do have to glue it I use Evostick Pipe Weld (sparingly) as I have seen boilers etc distort with other glues.

Probably melting lead with a blowtorch, isn't a good choice. I do hope you're taking proper precautions with masks & ventilation.

[DCB]

Probably melting lead with a blowtorch, isn't a good choice. I do hope you're taking proper precautions with masks & ventilation. 

It's a cheap butane gas blow lamp. I wear goggles and I do it outside so as not to set fire to the shed.Old Lead water pipe is good, melts beautifully.   I use car wheel balance weights because I have a lot which came with my wheel balancer but to be honest I find tyres seldom need to be balanced. If you fit new tyres and don't balance them but drive carefully for 50 miles or so the tyres settle down and seldom need balancing.  All Trick -Fit and the rest are doing is balancing out inequalities where the tyre isn't quite fitted properly Most of their profit is in the valve and balance they really hate it when you don't have the valve and balance.  If the wheel is significantly out of  balance the wheel is probably distorted and probably needs replacing, though I did find a tyre lever in a tyre on one occasion