Bachmann decoders fitted to Midland 3F and G2A

[highpeakman]

I have both of these locos that I purchased as DCC fitted.

 

On Decoder Pro they appear to identify as ESU Lokpilot decoders.

 

I am having a real problem setting up the speed controls on either basic speed control or speed table. I want them to run quite slowly or, at least, be limited on top speed but I seem unable to achieve this as I do with other brands I fit.

 

Am I missing something obvious please?

[10000]

Advice given by Bachmann to a model shop I used to frequent was that with their small locos/motors was turn off BEMF so give that a try

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Presumably these will be the 36-554, which were the 21 pin version of a lokpilot badged for Bachmann. I have quite a number of these in diesel models, and also the 36-553 8 pin equivalent. They were a real steal relative to prevailing decoder prices when first available about ten years ago at £10, and so I bought a handful at that time and they have given excellent service ever since.

 

Just reduce the value in CV5 until top speed is sufficiently limited. It's only a 63 step range, just in case you don't have the documentation. There's no access to a speed table or CV6; so the speed curve either suits or it doesn't. My experience was that they suited the big motors with flywheels in centre motor diesels far better than small motors found in steam models. (There was another limitation too, insufficient range for my preferred set up in CV's 3 and 4. Again that pointed to use in diesels with ample power for more rapid acceleration than steam, and on brake fitted stock so able to decelerate more rapidly than unfitted steam hauled freight.)

 

It may be worth tinkering with the BEMF settings (CV's 54. 55) to improve smoothness, especially at low speed. They are very 'tweaky' with small motors, and a change of 1 can produce a noticeable effect, lots of patient experiment required. (With the big motor and large flywheels in diesel chassis, thus high momentum in the drive line, they are much happier, usually needed no adjustment.) Bachmann at one time had a table on the DCC section of their site showing suggested values which are  agood guide to a starting point from which to make the adjustments to find optimum performance, but I cannot get access to their site to provide a link at the moment.

 

It is not a trouble I have experienced, but there have been a number of reports of these decoders losing addresses. The finger usually pointed at systems creating noise on the track at power up/power down but no real explanation of the why. Having an isolating switch between the track and system that is used to disconnect the system from track when switching on and off reportedly fixes this problem.

[highpeakman]

Presumably these will be the 36-554, which were the 21 pin version of a lokpilot badged for Bachmann. I have quite a number of these in diesel models, and also the 36-553 8 pin equivalent. They were a real steal relative to prevailing decoder prices when first available about ten years ago at £10, and so I bought a handful at that time and they have given excellent service ever since.

 

Just reduce the value in CV5 until top speed is sufficiently limited. It's only a 63 step range, just in case you don't have the documentation. There's no access to a speed table or CV6; so the speed curve either suits or it doesn't. My experience was that they suited the big motors with flywheels in centre motor diesels far better than small motors found in steam models. (There was another limitation too, insufficient range for my preferred set up in CV's 3 and 4. Again that pointed to use in diesels with ample power for more rapid acceleration than steam, and on brake fitted stock so able to decelerate more rapidly than unfitted steam hauled freight.)

 

It may be worth tinkering with the BEMF settings (CV's 54. 55) to improve smoothness, especially at low speed. They are very 'tweaky' with small motors, and a change of 1 can produce a noticeable effect, lots of patient experiment required. (With the big motor and large flywheels in diesel chassis, thus high momentum in the drive line, they are much happier, usually needed no adjustment.) Bachmann at one time had a table on the DCC section of their site showing suggested values which are  agood guide to a starting point from which to make the adjustments to find optimum performance, but I cannot get access to their site to provide a link at the moment.

 

It is not a trouble I have experienced, but there have been a number of reports of these decoders losing addresses. The finger usually pointed at systems creating noise on the track at power up/power down but no real explanation of the why. Having an isolating switch between the track and system that is used to disconnect the system from track when switching on and off reportedly fixes this problem.

 

That's very helpful, Thank you.

 

I had spent some time trying to set max speed using the speed table and basic speed control (which I thought would have directly written to CV5) without success but writing directly to CV5 worked straight away. Considering it is a 63 step range then I am using a value of only 5 to give the max speed I want, it is quite low.

 

I will now go the Bachmann site to look up settings for CVs 54, 55 as it does not run as smoothly as I hoped yet. You indicate that this might be a problem.

 

I was on the verge of buying replacement decoders (probably Zimos) but will persevere a little longer with these. Otherwise they will go the way of all my old Hornby Saphires (to the bin!).

 

Thank you again for yopur helpful suggestions. 

Advice given by Bachmann to a model shop I used to frequent was that with their small locos/motors was turn off BEMF so give that a try

 

Thank you. I will look at that.

[highpeakman]

 

It may be worth tinkering with the BEMF settings (CV's 54. 55) to improve smoothness, especially at low speed. They are very 'tweaky' with small motors, and a change of 1 can produce a noticeable effect, lots of patient experiment required. (With the big motor and large flywheels in diesel chassis, thus high momentum in the drive line, they are much happier, usually needed no adjustment.) Bachmann at one time had a table on the DCC section of their site showing suggested values which are  agood guide to a starting point from which to make the adjustments to find optimum performance, but I cannot get access to their site to provide a link at the moment.

 

 

 

I have reset CV 54,55 according to Bachmann site and it now runs more smoothly than it did. Will experiment further but, at the moment, I feel I might invest in some Zimo replacements to get the quality of running I am after.

 

My layout is a relatively short run from a fiddle yard to station and yard so most running is slow, shunting work and it can be difficult to get satisfactory performance to my own satisfaction.

 

Once again, Thanks.

[Jub45565]

I had a lenz 21 pin in my 3F & couldn't get it to work properly at slow speeds even though it did on DC. Swapped it for zimo & hey presto!

 

It seems a common thing with driving certain Bachmann motors.

 

I use Zimo as standard now, just a shame the mx600 range doesn't include a 21 pin option.

[highpeakman]

I had a lenz 21 pin in my 3F & couldn't get it to work properly at slow speeds even though it did on DC. Swapped it for zimo & hey presto!

 

It seems a common thing with driving certain Bachmann motors.

 

I use Zimo as standard now, just a shame the mx600 range doesn't include a 21 pin option.

 

Thanks. I also tend to go to Zimo first now as all the locos I have fitted with their decoders run well before any tweaking.

 

Your comment about Lenz is interesting. Seems that different brands suit different motors.

 

There is a Zimo MX632D and MX634D 21 pin but they do look a bit pricey. Have to have look around perhaps. 

[highpeakman]

That's very helpful, Thank you.

 

I had spent some time trying to set max speed using the speed table and basic speed control (which I thought would have directly written to CV5) without success but writing directly to CV5 worked straight away. Considering it is a 63 step range then I am using a value of only 5 to give the max speed I want, it is quite low.

 

I will now go the Bachmann site to look up settings for CVs 54, 55 as it does not run as smoothly as I hoped yet. You indicate that this might be a problem.

 

I was on the verge of buying replacement decoders (probably Zimos) but will persevere a little longer with these. Otherwise they will go the way of all my old Hornby Saphires (to the bin!).

 

Thank you again for yopur helpful suggestions. 

 

Thank you. I will look at that.

 

I have moved on with the job of setting up my locos to run on my layout. I now have a problem with another loco - Bachmann Fairburn Tank - which has a Loksound (I think v3.5) chip fitted. Essentially the same problem as above with the other Bachmann/ESU decoders. I just cannot get the max speed down. I have used Decoder pro to set max speed using Speed Table, Basic speed setting and individual CV setting.

 

Currently CV5 is set to 4 (CV6 to 2) and yet the loco still rockets away up to normal "fast" on the track.

 

I am wary of turning off the back EMF as I understand that will have an effect on the sound?

 

Any ideas anyone?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have reset CV 54,55 according to Bachmann site and it now runs more smoothly than it did. Will experiment further but, at the moment, I feel I might invest in some Zimo replacements to get the quality of running I am after...

 I could never get quite the smoothness I wanted at starting and stopping and dead slow speed from these decoders, in combination with the small Bachmann motors found in their steam models. I might have accepted that for models that were only going to run through on the mainline, but the lack of range in CV's 3 and 4 knocked that on the head. This decoder's control set up is much happier with the combination of  large motors with plenty of inertia from flywheels.

 

...I have moved on with the job of setting up my locos to run on my layout. I now have a problem with another loco - Bachmann Fairburn Tank - which has a Loksound (I think v3.5) chip fitted. Essentially the same problem as above with the other Bachmann/ESU decoders. I just cannot get the max speed down. I have used Decoder pro to set max speed using Speed Table, Basic speed setting and individual CV setting...

 There's another factor in your problem descriptions alongside Bachmann/ESU. That's 'Decoder Pro'. Why not try set up the simple way on CV's 2, 5 and 6 from the DCC system and see if that makes things work to your taste, or at least enables the low maximum speed you are trying for?

[Ron Ron Ron]

...... Bachmann at one time had a table on the DCC section of their site showing suggested values which are  agood guide to a starting point from which to make the adjustments to find optimum performance, but I cannot get access to their site to provide a link at the moment.....

 

 

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/decoder_settings.pdf

 

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/3-function_decoder.pdf.  (applies to both 36-553 and 36-554)

 

 

 

.

[highpeakman]

 I could never get quite the smoothness I wanted at starting and stopping and dead slow speed from these decoders, in combination with the small Bachmann motors found in their steam models. I might have accepted that for models that were only going to run through on the mainline, but the lack of range in CV's 3 and 4 knocked that on the head. This decoder's control set up is much happier with the combination of  large motors with plenty of inertia from flywheels.

 

 There's another factor in your problem descriptions alongside Bachmann/ESU. That's 'Decoder Pro'. Why not try set up the simple way on CV's 2, 5 and 6 from the DCC system and see if that makes things work to your taste, or at least enables the low maximum speed you are trying for?

 

I use an NCE Powercab. I did as you suggested and checked on the programme track. CV5 read back as value 5. I entered it again as 5 to make sure. Loco on track still behaves the same.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

[highpeakman]

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/decoder_settings.pdf

 

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/3-function_decoder.pdf.  (applies to both 36-553 and 36-554)

 

 

 

.

 

Thanks for the suggestions but I have already tried those settings.

 

Just to clarify - my original problem was with factory fitted Bachmann decoders which are made by ESU. Problems on those were largely cured by using the data you mention above to set the CVs although I found the only way to get the loco to perform reasonably for me was to set CV5 to 5 which seems a very low number compared to my other locos fitted with other brands of decoder.

 

However this latest problem is on a ESU "Loksound" sound decoder which I bought some years ago and fitted myself. Initially the behaviour seemed the same as the Bachmann/ESU parts in that a very low CV5 setting was required but on this decoder even that setting does not cure the excessive speed problem.