91s on parcel workings

[18B]

just reading some Modern Railways issues and much was made of the blunt end cabs of the 91s for use on parcels and postal workings............ where they ever used on such workings on a regualr basis?

[russ p]

Maybe once or twice, going back to Christmas 1990 91s were used on Christmas reliefs from York to Kings cross which were made up of blue and grey mk1s this was the last time I travelled in a compartment SK on BR

Don't think I've ever seen any pictures but there were two next to each other 10 and 11 at York both locos blunt end first

[Fat Controller]

just reading some Modern Railways issues and much was made of the blunt end cabs of the 91s for use on parcels and postal workings............ where they ever used on such workings on a regualr basis?

I think Sectorisation arrived before they could be employed in such a manner.

[Simon Bendall]

There is a pic in an issue of Rail circa 1990 of a 91 on a parcels train, possibly at York, can't remember the circumstances without digging out the issue though. Certainly wasn't a regular thing.

[TravisM]

There is a pic in an issue of Rail circa 1990 of a 91 on a parcels train, possibly at York, can't remember the circumstances without digging out the issue though. Certainly wasn't a regular thing.

 

They were supposed to used on sleepers as well but it was all quickly abandoned because of issues with the TDM.  Computers of the day didn't like being connected then disconnected from the loco to the train, so it was decided to keep trainsets together so everything would talk to each other.  I believe that directive still stands.

[GordonC]

There is a pic in an issue of Rail circa 1990 of a 91 on a parcels train, possibly at York, can't remember the circumstances without digging out the issue though. Certainly wasn't a regular thing.

 

was that a test train rake from the works perhaps rather than actually a revenue-earning working?

[tamperman36]

I remember seeing 91003 leaving Leeds blunt end first, coupled to a mk1 generator coach and a set of mk1 charter coaches back in the early 90s. They also turned up coupled up pointed end to DVT (having had the coaching set turned around) occasionally in the early days due to TDM problems.

[Ken.W]

They were supposed to used on sleepers as well but it was all quickly abandoned because of issues with the TDM.  Computers of the day didn't like being connected then disconnected from the loco to the train, so it was decided to keep trainsets together so everything would talk to each other.  I believe that directive still stands.

Not really, the sleepers, which had been withdrawn from the ECML for the electrification works, were never subsequently reinstated.

There's no directive that they stay coupled to the sets that I'm aware of, more a case of simply as they work in fixed formations there's no need to split them, and the locos are regularly swapped between sets as required for maintenance, the frequency of which differs between the locos and coaches. Also, the TDM system's only connected between loco and train (DVT) when the driving controls are energised.

Sectorisation, as mentioned above, which took effect around the same time as their introduction, would have had a greater impact on preventing them doing other work like postal / parcels. There was even frequent stories at the time  of, on the freight side, a failed train being left in a loop for hours until a loco from the correct sub-sector could arrive from hundreds of miles away when locos were available locally but from the wrong sub-sector, so little chance of locos doing work for an entirely different sector.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Ken.W

[pete_mcfarlane]

I definitely remember them working mk1 sets on the ECML, including the white roofed Mk1 charter set.

 

There was also a set of Mk3 sleepers used for testing, with a buffer fitted HST power car at the other end using the TDM push/pull. That seemed to run quite frequently through Grantham in the day time, back in the days when there were spare paths on the ECML for such things. 

[Mike Storey]

Maybe once or twice, going back to Christmas 1990 91s were used on Christmas reliefs from York to Kings cross which were made up of blue and grey mk1s this was the last time I travelled in a compartment SK on BR

Don't think I've ever seen any pictures but there were two next to each other 10 and 11 at York both locos blunt end first

 

Indeed. These reliefs, all stations P.boro to York, usually running at xx.35 past the hour after the most popular trains, at Christmas and Easter, were normally rostered Class 47's and timed accordingly, but I too recall spare 91's (and I think the sole Class 89) being used in this way a few times around that time out of the Cross. It was most definitely not a regular diagram. They would normally only be blunt-end first when southbound, because the pointy-end faced north on the Mark IV operations, with the DVT on the stops at KGX. However, it was possible to turn them via a triangular journey, and 91's did arrive on the stops on Mark IV workings on occasion, facing the wrong way, after diversions.

 

I never saw them used on non-passenger workings and bow to the knowledge of others on that. Certainly the sleepers were always diesel hauled (although I seem to recall Class 90's were tried for a while), and were almost always late southbound, which completely bu88ered up the morning peak at the Cross each time. We were very pleased when the whole operation transferred to Euston.....

[TravisM]

Not really, the sleepers, which had been withdrawn from the ECML for the electrification works, were never subsequently reinstated.

 

When I worked on the railways, I talked to someone from the design office, he told me that when the ECML extension was proposed and the Class 91's were on the drawing board, the pointy end (Number 1 end I believe) was designed for 125 mph and Mk IV stock and the blunt end, 110 mph.  The main reason the number 1 end was fitted with a Pullman rubbing plate between the buffers was that if the number 2 end was leading, it could haul other coaching stock including the sleepers and NPCCS.