Severn Tunnel Anniversary

[Killybegs]

According to my new tear off desk diary (freebie from my local Ford Dealer here in Donegal), the Severn Tunnel was opened on this day in 1886.

 

Thought for the day from same source - 'Those who believe that they are in the right are generally those who achieve something'. Hmm, discuss!

[Gordon A]

In my experience those who believe they are right often do not like to discuss or consider alternatives.

There is often more ways than one available to reach a destination.

 

Gordon A

[Zomboid]

It's probably fair to say that those who think they're wrong don't achieve much. The opposite I'm less convinced by.

[APOLLO]

For my birthday my sister bought me the book "The Severn Tunnel, it's construction & difficulties 1872 - 1887" by Thomas A Walker (Nonsuch publishing).

 

A very interesting book, describing in detail the water ingress difficulties etc, with many period plans and drawings. What hard and skilled men were bred back then.

 

It is said in my family that my great grandfather was a young mine ventilating engineer from Wigan, and worked on the Severn tunnel ventilation system at some (unknown) time. He married a Welsh girl and settled in Pentrebach, (near Merthyr) working at local collieries in the area, his son, my grandfather moving "home" to Wigan in his youth. I wish I knew more about this, but alas time has erased the facts.

 

Anyway, this is an interesting video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQho8DUMHJA

 

Brit15

[KeithHC]

9th January a goods train used the tunnel but it was not inspected by the ministry until 17th November 1886 and finally opened to traffic on 1st December 1886.

 

Keith

[Phil Bullock]

In my experience those who believe they are right often do not like to discuss or consider alternatives.

There is often more ways than one available to reach a destination.

 

Gordon A

 

Very true!

 

At the time alternatives were Aust Ferry or around via Gloucester - old Severn bridge from Sharpness to Lydney came later

 

Hang on - Perhaps Hawkshaw was right to think he was right! 

 

Phil

[Arthur]

Self evidently if you believe your course of action is right you will lilkely take it and probably achieve something. Good or bad.

 

Equally self evidently, if you believe you are wrong why on earth would you embark on that endeavour and consequently you will achieve nothing.

 

Really, it’s not that hard.

 

.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Arthur

[The Johnster]

Very true!

 

At the time alternatives were Aust Ferry or around via Gloucester - old Severn bridge from Sharpness to Lydney came later

 

Hang on - Perhaps Hawkshaw was right to think he was right! 

 

Phil

 

The Beachley-Aust ferry was started in 1926; it is a very difficult crossing, though the narrowest point for some distance, due to vicious tidal currents.

 

My father was on the last Sunday diverted Cardiff-Bristol train over the 'old' Severn Bridge before it's encounter with the tankers.

 

The Tunnel, of course, featured the lowest crossing that could take cars, with a train ferry that finished in 1966 when the Severn M4 (now M48) bridge opened; I am not sure when it started but I believe this was also in the 1920s.

[The Johnster]

Self evidently if you believe your course of action is right you will lilkely take it and probably achieve something. Good or bad.

 

Equally self evidently, if you believe you are wrong why on earth would you embark on that endeavour and consequently you will achieve nothing.

 

Really, it’s not that hard.

 

.

But not necessarily desirable; you could argue that Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, and Pol Pot were high achievers with a degree of self belief.  Nobody ever told them to 'go to your room young man and have a long hard think about what you are trying to achieve'!

Anyway, happy birthday Severn Tunnel!

[Arthur]

 

Er, I did say good or bad......

 

......probably achieve something. Good or bad.

 

.

[eastglosmog]

The Beachley-Aust ferry was started in 1926; it is a very difficult crossing, though the narrowest point for some distance, due to vicious tidal currents.

 

...............................

Strictly speaking, that was the reopening - the original ferry had run from way back and closed c 1877 as a consequence of the railway taking most of the trade and the postal service.

Of course, the tunnel thing was totally unnecessary - had the GWR persevered with the East Gloucestershire railway back in 1862 they would have had a much cheaper direct route between South Wales and London!

[Phil Bullock]

Strictly speaking, that was the reopening - the original ferry had run from way back and closed c 1877 as a consequence of the railway taking most of the trade and the postal service.

Of course, the tunnel thing was totally unnecessary - had the GWR persevered with the East Gloucestershire railway back in 1862 they would have had a much cheaper direct route between South Wales and London!

 

Absolutely - and Cheltenham would have had a sensible direct route too!

 

Phil

[KeithHC]

How about a combined road rail bridge for the proposed Third Severn crossing. This would be around the same location as the first Severn rail bridge at Sharpness........

 

Keith

[Pandora]

I knew little of the Severn Tunnel until the post prompted some research. Basically the construction of the Tunnel,  What a Disaster, and what a Triumph of perseverance by the Victorian engineers

Edited January 9, 2018 by Pandora

[The Johnster]

I knew little of the Severn Tunnel until the post prompted some research. Basically the construction of the Tunnel,  What a Disaster, and what a Triumph of perseverance by the Victorian engineers

 

Walker's book is well worth getting hold of if you can; a Victorian engineer intimate with the project who not only knows what he is talking about but is very effective at putting it across to 'lay' people without getting too bogged down in technicalities.  His description of the diver's (a man called Lambert, who was also involved in recovering the dead from the Tay Bridge disaster) heroic effort in closing a flooded valve in pitch darkness while trying to navigate his way around a wrecked underground building site is inspiring without being sensationalised!

[The Johnster]

Strictly speaking, that was the reopening - the original ferry had run from way back and closed c 1877 as a consequence of the railway taking most of the trade and the postal service.

Of course, the tunnel thing was totally unnecessary - had the GWR persevered with the East Gloucestershire railway back in 1862 they would have had a much cheaper direct route between South Wales and London!

 

The Tunnel was necessary and desirable, but for a slightly different purpose than it's current one; it was partly financed with government money as a means of connecting the steam coal pits of South Wales with the Naval bases at Portsmouth and Plymouth.  One of the first trains through was an Aberdare-Portsmount coal special, some pride being taken in the 15 hours or so taken from hewing the coal from the face to being fed into the boilers of a battleship ready for sea with full steam pressure; take that, Johnny Foreigner (we were terrified of the French at the time).  Part of it's modern role is still connecting South Wales with the English Channel coast, and it's role in connecting it with London was not properly realised until the construction of the Badminton cutoff over 3 decades later.  South Wales traffic for Paddington still ran via Gloucester and Sapperton for some time after the tunnel's opening, indeed some freight did so until the end of steam and an overnight passenger until the end of BR, with a Sunday morning run in latter years, class 50 hauled, from Cardiff.

 

Stapleton Road station in Bristol was built to accommodate South Wales-South Coast traffic, which did not reverse at Temple Meads in those days.

 

Once the Badminton cutoff was built, of course, the tunnel is not far off being in a dead straight line from Paddington to Newport, and it was incorporated into the new route.

 

How about a combined road rail bridge for the proposed Third Severn crossing. This would be around the same location as the first Severn rail bridge at Sharpness........

 

Keith

 

TBH, don't see much point in a rail bridge here, though it would relieve the Severn Tunnel bottleneck if some freight was diverted that way.  Downside is that it would create new bottlenecks at Westerleigh and between there and Stoke Gifford, and possibly Chepstow, and the requisite 25 ton axle loading would increase the cost of the proposed bridge exponentially.  I am not sure that road or rail traffic density or flows require a 3rd crossing, though the Severnside airport concept could change that!

 

I am a fan of the idea of an international airport based on Filton; massive runway and easy, effectively on site, access to motorway and rail networks for the whole country.

Edited January 10, 2018 by The Johnster

[Coppercap]

I am a fan of the idea of an international airport based on Filton; massive runway and easy, effectively on site, access to motorway and rail networks for the whole country.

You can forget all about that. Filton's closed, sold, and will slowly disappear under housing and other developments. The airport proposals were rejected by our local council, mostly because of the surrounding housing that had grown around the relatively quiet airfield. They didn't want it developed into an airport with more traffic of all kinds.

[Zomboid]

TBH, don't see much point in a rail bridge here, though it would relieve the Severn Tunnel bottleneck if some freight was diverted that way. Downside is that it would create new bottlenecks at Westerleigh and between there and Stoke Gifford, and possibly Chepstow, and the requisite 25 ton axle loading would increase the cost of the proposed bridge exponentially.

I doubt it would make much difference. Most of the weight such a bridge will have to support will be the bridge itself. A few thousand tons of railway might not be negligible, but I doubt the impact would be exponential.

This suggested bridge would be in the wrong place upstream of the first bridge though. The second severn crossing was the missed opportunity, which I believe was not done for political reasons rather than anything technical with the bridge.