Printed textures versus 3D textures

[Marly51]

I am interested in the options of using very detailed printed textures for scratchbuilding and comparing them to textures created in 3D using, paper, card, Plasticard and etched brass. Some excellent printed textures are available from companies like Scalescenes, Model Railway Scenery, etc. but the selection may not always have one that is based on the subject detail required. I have read articles about N Gauge layouts where the modeller argues the case for using paper printed textures throughout, as they feel the level of detail is good enough for viewing at an exhibition.

I am currently scratchbuilding a small historic N Gauge layout based on a real Far North Line Station and therein lies the challenge of recreating the typical Highland Railway plank and batten walls of the signal boxes, waiting rooms, etc. An early modelmaker used thread pasted on card and this is a technique I have used, but it is extremely fiddly. I used the finest thread I could find and first pasted it onto card at the appropriate centres with PVA. Once dry I very carefully painted the textured surface with acrylic paint mixed to the correct colour. However, as we know PVA is easily reactivated by water or water based products, so the painting had to be done quickly in one coat and and any movement of the texture quickly adjusted using a pin. The result is not too bad, but when I compare my efforts to the modelling by Caley Jim I am just amazed at the detail other modelmakers are achieving in 2mm Finescale. Jim’s Caledonian Railway signal box for his 2mm layout ‘Kirkallanmuir’ has some beautifully crafted detail both externally and internally. http://2mmfcag.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/ This level of modelling takes a lot of commitment in time and skill and I am currently compromising using a combination of purchased printed textures with added three dimensionsal detail. I would be interested in other members’ preferences and techniques.

Marlyn

Edited January 15, 2018 by Marly51

[Chubber]

Perhaps securing the thread with shellac/knotting would have proved more successful as it is spirit based, and provided care was taken in the application of a water based acrylic paint it should not be affected by the painting stage. It will also confer a certain degree of toughness to the card/paper, sufficient to allow gentle sandpapering if needed at any stage.

 

Hope this might help in future,

 

Doug

[Marly51]

Thanks Doug, I have another couple of signal boxes and other buildings to make, so will try the Shellac method. Not used this since screenprinting as a student way back! I had already read a topic about using Shellac for building card wagons - Jim Read? But someone else in another post somewhere mentioned they weren’t keen on Shellac because it became brittle over time? Must jot down some notes from the Forum posts.

Marlyn

[Chubber]

  ...in another post somewhere mentioned they weren’t keen on Shellac because it became brittle over time? ....

 

 

That's not something that would worry me to much, it is supposed to confer rigidity, after all. Back in 2007 when living in SW France I made two scratchbuilt buildings using card and paper with shellac as a sealer and surface treatment, they went to the Warley show as part of a trade stand. I still have them and they are just fine. I used 'knotting', as I was too lazy to dissolve shellac nibs in alcohol in the time-honoured way.

 

Just as a couple of  'funnies', herewith a a little bench etc, made from cartridge paper treated with several coats of shellac before being cut out and joined up. It scales up to boards about 1 1/2" thick, and the interior deatils for a Stationmasters office, the chair is made from layers of very thin card, of the sort found in new shirt wrapping, also treated with shellac. It keeps dampness out of little things like this so that they don't change shape with variations on humidity.

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing some of your buildings,

 

Doug

Edited January 15, 2018 by Chubber

[kandc_au]

Marlyn,

Would the paint itself have enough strength to hold the thread in place?

Meaning could you bypass glueing with PVA and have the paint do the job.

 

Khris

[Marly51]

Marlyn,

Would the paint itself have enough strength to hold the thread in place?

Meaning could you bypass glueing with PVA and have the paint do the job.

 

Khris

Thanks, Khris - that’s another possibility - will experiment a little more.

[Marly51]

That's not something that would worry me to much, it is supposed to confer rigidity, after all. Back in 2007 when living in SW France I made two scratchbuilt buildings using card and paper with shellac as a sealer and surface treatment, they went to the Warley show as part of a trade stand. I still have them and they are just fine. I used 'knotting', as I was too lazy to dissolve shellac nibs in alcohol in the time-honoured way.

 

Just as a couple of  'funnies', herewith a a little bench etc, made from cartridge paper treated with several coats of shellac before being cut out and joined up. It scales up to boards about 1 1/2" thick, and the interior deatils for a Stationmasters office, the chair is made from layers of very thin card, of the sort found in new shirt wrapping, also treated with shellac. It keeps dampness out of little things like this so that they don't change shape with variations on humidity.

 

Desk.JPG

 

SMsinterior1.jpg

 

I look forward to seeing some of your buildings,

 

Doug

These are amazing miniatures and thank you for all your advice. Really enjoying following the progress of projects by yourself and others. I’ve loved making tiny things since I was first able to use a pair of real scissors at about age 3!

 

Marlyn

[Kylestrome]

I am currently scratchbuilding a small historic N Gauge layout based on a real Far North Line Station and therein lies the challenge of recreating the typical Highland Railway plank and batten walls of the signal boxes, waiting rooms, etc.

 

In my experience, a good way to represent Highland Railway plank and batten walls is to use styrene sheet (Plastikard) and styrene micro-strip. The 2mm scale platelayers hut in the photo was done many years ago using these materials. If I were doing something like that today I would use some of the very fine strips available from Evergreen or styrene Plastruct, both of which are available in the UK. Glueing on the battens is still a bit 'fiddly' but at least they are the right shape. 

 

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips

https://plastruct.com/product-category/strip-and-rod/styrene-strip-stock-rod/

 

David

 

 

 

[Marly51]

In my experience, a good way to represent Highland Railway plank and batten walls is to use styrene sheet (Plastikard) and styrene micro-strip. The 2mm scale platelayers hut in the photo was done many years ago using these materials. If I were doing something like that today I would use some of the very fine strips available from Evergreen or styrene Plastruct, both of which are available in the UK. Glueing on the battens is still a bit 'fiddly' but at least they are the right shape. 

 

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips

https://plastruct.com/product-category/strip-and-rod/styrene-strip-stock-rod/

 

David

 

 

jul_08_05.jpg  jul_08_06.jpg

Thank you David - very good advice and lovely detail in your hut model.

I think thread glued to card was used in smaller scales in the past because the cabin battens were half-round, while the more utilitarian buildings like platelayers huts, etc used flat battens. I’ve been enjoying modelling in card, but may return to using Plastikard for the finer details. Somewhere I have a 2mm scale model of an old cottage in Rothiemurchus, which I made totally in Plastikard, but never painted it because I loved the textures of the plain white model!

Thanks again for sharing your techniques.

Marlyn

[Kylestrome]

I think thread glued to card was used in smaller scales in the past because the cabin battens were half-round, while the more utilitarian buildings like platelayers huts, etc used flat battens.

 

Thanks, I hadn't realised that. Evergreen also make half-round strips.

 

David

[14Steve14]

When my dad used to scratch build rolling stock and the occasional building he swore by using shellac, but I think he used knotting. When we looked at his models a few months ago, they were all fine and could be handled. Some of them are over 50 years old. Must work.

[Marly51]

When my dad used to scratch build rolling stock and the occasional building he swore by using shellac, but I think he used knotting. When we looked at his models a few months ago, they were all fine and could be handled. Some of them are over 50 years old. Must work.

Will definitely purchase some knotting fluid and maybe try making some sample textures first.

Thankyou to everyone who has responded - very useful tips.

 

Marlyn

[Robin2]

I'm the complete philistine.

 

I reckon if the surface was printed from your PC with appropriate colouring nobody would know from a normal viewing distance that the relief was not real. Or maybe just take some photos of a real hut and scale them and stick them on a block of wood of the right shape and size.

 

After all, the above pictures of the plate-layers' hut look perfectly good on my perfectly flat laptop screen.

 

I have some Scalescenes Ashlar sheets and they are very obviously wrong when I look at them upside down.

 

...R

[Marly51]

Produced a quick 2mm scale linesman’s hut last night from the Smart Models downloadable kit. I’m using this as a filler until I have time to make a scratchbuilt one based on prototype Highland hut. Apart from timber effect not being treated with creosote, texture detail is OK from viewing distance, but the modern camera lens is very unforgiving! The only problem I had with the paper kit was that, as a scaled down version, overlap allowances were too small. Also my inkjet matt paper is quite thick for the small scale and the rolled chimney edge is visible. I prefer silk inkjet paper for colour accuracy and it is also finer, but you still have to deal with a slightly glossy model when it is finished. This is the ‘teeniest’ item and probably smallest kit I would ever attempt to make from a paper downloadable!

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Marly51

[Edwardian]

Produced a quick 2mm scale linesman’s hut last night from the Smart Models downloadable kit. I’m using this as a filler until I have time to make a scratchbuilt one based on prototype Highland hut. Apart from timber effect not being treated with creosote, texture detail is OK from viewing distance, but the modern camera lens is very unforgiving! The only problem I had with the paper kit was that, as a scaled down version, overlap allowances were too small. Also my inkjet matt paper is quite thick for the small scale and the rolled chimney edge is visible. I prefer silk inkjet paper for colour accuracy and it is also finer, but you still have to deal with a slightly glossy model when it is finished. This is the ‘teeniest’ item and probably smallest kit I would ever attempt to make from a paper downloadable!

 

BAD419E2-2F30-4704-9798-2B37635DC42E.jpeg

2D2795D5-C308-4E81-99DF-39677B3F003B.jpeg

 

Full of character, and would not a dark wash creosote it for you?

[Marly51]

Here is my model of Invershin Station before I completed the roof and added more external finishes (sills, downpipes, dormer roof detail, etc). My threaded texture for the booking hall gable had already been created before posting on this thread, and subsequently received lots of great advice about treating card to make it more diverse as a modelling medium. Everything else is paper, thin card and printed textures. Time factors have meant that for this and a second layout I do not have the luxury of creating all the textures in 3D, unfortunately. The main building and booking office (which is roofed) have some basic internal detailing in case I decide to add lighting at a later date. I shall be creating two topics for these layouts eventually but, as these are the first complete model railways I have ever built, I have been holding off posting so as not to put myself under too much pressure.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Marly51

[Marly51]

Full of character, and would not a dark wash creosote it for you?

Yes, Edwardian, that would work - I matt varnished the printout, so a wash and maybe a touch of weathering using some ground pastels might work. I am placing all the buildings on the layout today to adjust weathering etc.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Marly51

[Marly51]

Yes, Edwardian, that would work - I matt varnished the printout, so a wash and maybe a touch of weathering using some ground pastels might work. I am placing all the buildings on the layout today to adjust weathering etc.

Think this little model might be underscale, but that’s Ok as it is going to the back of the layout. There is a good photograph of a lineside hut made from old sleepers in Peter Tatlow’s ‘Highland Miscellany’ - Fig.165. When they are old and bleached they probably look a bit like a slightly more grey version of the model. Kylestrome’s hut which he posted earlier has some fine detail and the timbers have a good finish to simulate creosote.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Marly51

[Marly51]

2mm scale Invershin scratchbuilt card model before final detailing and weathering!

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Marly51

[acg5324]

This is good stuff.

 

If you haven’t already had a look I recommend Grahame Hedges thread dealing with the buildings around London Bridge in n gauge. He uses a mix of mountboard and embossed plasticard plus Redutex.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115057-scratch-built-card-and-styrene-structures-based-on-real-buildings/

 

Or as an alternative my Kensington Olympia n gauge layout uses plasticard and mountboard for the framework with scalescene downloaded brick papers etc.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75679-kensington-olympia-in-n-scale/

[Marly51]

This is good stuff.

If you haven’t already had a look I recommend Grahame Hedges thread dealing with the buildings around London Bridge in n gauge. He uses a mix of mountboard and embossed plasticard plus Redutex.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115057-scratch-built-card-and-styrene-structures-based-on-real-buildings/

Or as an alternative my Kensington Olympia n gauge layout uses plasticard and mountboard for the framework with scalescene downloaded brick papers etc.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75679-kensington-olympia-in-n-scale/

Thankyou acg5324! I am already a fan of Graeme’s city models - he works at an amazing pace and is so inventive with his use of materials. Thank you for link to your work as well - you have a long thread of posts, which I look forward to reading through. Very impressed from my first glance at your model buildings and structures.

[t-b-g]

I have created half round beading by scoring a groove in sheet plastic and laying the smallest round plastic rod into the groove.

 

The groove keeps it straight and a touch of solvent secures it.

 

I haven't done any for many years and don't have any photos to illustrate but a very light cut with an "Olfa" cutter or a scraperboard knife will do the trick.

[Marly51]

I have created half round beading by scoring a groove in sheet plastic and laying the smallest round plastic rod into the groove.

 

The groove keeps it straight and a touch of solvent secures it.

 

I haven't done any for many years and don't have any photos to illustrate but a very light cut with an "Olfa" cutter or a scraperboard knife will do the trick.

Thanks t-b-g! I will try that technique - I have a selection of Plastikard sheets and rods, including some which are like filament.

[Marly51]

Invershin Station now in place on micro layout - Just noticed a couple of chimneys have been knocked - oops! I downloaded some old posters, station signs.etc from Scale Scenes. Moving on to another layout and will try out some of the suggestions other modellers have made in this topic. Thanks everyone!

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Marly51

[Marly51]

I will start a new topic in Micromodel section about construction of my first model railway based on Invershin Station during 1940s/1950s.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Marly51