Hornby 75t Crane Specifications?

[FPH 603]

Hi all,

 

Recently I aquired a Hornby 'Permanent Way' train set, only with the crane, two small wagons that go either side of the crane, a controller, transformer, one piece of track and a Triang flat wagon. I would like to scratchbuild the front wagon which the crane itself rests on, but I was wondering if anyone had specifications for this. I am looking for a good replacement for the missing tool coach too.

Thanks to all that contribute.

[Poor Old Bruce]

You need Peter Tatlow's Railway Breakdown Cranes, Volume Two (I assume there are libraries in Sydney if you don't want to buy a copy). There are side elevations and photos of the jib runners in there. The jib runner in your photo is the wrong way round btw, the higher side of the 'V' should be towards the crane. The jibs on these cranes are 'articulated', the bottom end of the jib is forked rather than pinned. There are projections on the side of the jib (not reproduced on the model) which engage in the 'V' as it is lowered onto the runner, this system then draws the jib away from its bottom bearing and allows the unit to curve without the jib or the crane tail sticking out sideways and fouling other lines while in transit.

[96701]

The two small wagons that go either side are actually weight relieving bogies. The real ones are far too heavy to run in train on their own, so jacks are used to lift the crane carriage ever so slightly, therefore transferring some of the weight from the carriage to the bogies.

[The Johnster]

Your missing tool coach, IIRC a yellow painted mk1 BSK as supplied by Hornby, depends on your period.  Mk1s were in use from the late 60s to the end of BR and turned up in several liveries.  Some were converted to feature sliding roller shutter doors for the tool vehicle; with the breakdown trains (this sort of big crane is not suitable for normal Per Way work, though may appear on big jobs like bridge girder replacements) there was also a mess coach, with sleeping and cooking facilities and a toilet for crews who might be on duty for up to several days in the case of a bad accident.

 

Prior to say 1970, you might find the previous generation of main line stock cascaded into such service; Hawksworths, Staniers, Thompsons, or Bullieds, and a decade earlier might feature Colletts, Gresleys, or Maunsells.  And so on...  Liveries were a bright red, not crimson; look at some of the photos of Carnforth on the '50 years since the end of steam' thread, and I think I remember black before that.

 

The tool van carried jacks, cutting gear, timber packing pieces, crowbars, big hammers, and other wrecking equipment to deal with mangled wreckage.  The crews, per way men and a tough bunch, were on permanent standby and got a bonus, as well as copious overtime when an 'incident' occurred.  They worked furiously and heroically in all conditions, and no one begrudged them the money.  

 

At Canton the breakdown crane lived on it's own siding, boiler and bunker full and ready to go at a moment's notice.  It had a permanently allocated goods brake van which was also fully kitted out and carried a supply of coal for the stove and lamp oil.  This van was sacred, and pinching anything from it a 'hanging offence'.

Edited February 9, 2018 by The Johnster

[96701]

The crews, per way men and a tough bunch, were on permanent standby and got a bonus, as well as copious overtime when an 'incident' occurred.  They worked furiously and heroically in all conditions, and no one begrudged them the money.  

 

 

At Kingmoor, they were depot  staff that made up the breakdown team, not p-way.

[Poor Old Bruce]

At Kingmoor, they were depot  staff that made up the breakdown team, not p-way.

 

Same at Derby. Fitters etc.

[jonhall]

If you want a flavour of how breakdown trains and cranes are worked, the recommendation is to seek out a copy of 'Off the Rails' by Bill Bishop. Whilst it focuses on his experience at Eastleigh, I imagine other depots were similar.

 

Jon

[FPH 603]

Thanks guys for your help. What I will probably do is track down a Jib Runner and I'll find an old coach and convert that into the tool coach. I'll probably go for something different from the repainted Gresley that was supposed to come in the set, maybe I'll do a Thompson or a Mk1, or I may even scratchbuild a completely new design. I'll also see about doing some reading up about brakedown trains, as this is a pretty new subject to me.

[The Johnster]

There's plenty to read about, Double.  Breakdowns were attached to major depots where locos were pretty much available 24/7 to haul them if required.  The prime purpose was wrecking in the event of an 'incident', and some urgency was attached to this; in the initial period after a bad accident wreckage might have to be lifted to release trapped and/or injured passengers, then, when that had been done, to recover those who had not survived, and then to clear the line to re-open it to traffic as soon as possible, all needing to be done as quickly as could be managed.  Nowadays accidents of this sort are regarded as crime scenes and the railway has to be closed while the investigators do their work as soon as the initial rescue is accomplished.

 

A breakdown train on route to the scene of an 'incident' is signalled as a class 1 express passenger train and given priority over all other traffic, even Royal Trains.  The crane at Canton, a Cowan Sheldon 75 tonner similar to the Hornby model, was permitted to run at 60mph, and had a goods brake van attached as it was vacuum piped but not fitted; the mess and tool coaches of course were but provided insufficient brake power and were in any case only at one end of the train, which had to be kept ready to go at a moments notice in any direction from the depot.  The Canton crew, except for the crane driver, were IIRC Per Way men, burly gentlemen suited to such work, but I can see the point of using fitting staff who would be on hand at the depot; ours were on call-out standby and I believe the Railway made a contribution to their telephone rentals as well.

 

The old coaling stage was used as accommodation, a GW style one with the water supply for the depot on the top, so coal and water were handy.  On an adjacent road were the Breakdown Vans, a pair of converted mk1s in similar livery (again, different types would have been cascaded in earlier periods).  These were a BSK mess coach with similar accommodation to that on the crane's train, and a similarly simiar tool van but with more in the way of packing, jacking, and lifting gear.  This was to deal with the more common minor derailments that did not need heavy lifting, and in my time as a guard at that depot I went out with them on several occasions, usually to some minor disaster on Cardiff docks somewhere (these were as unusual as an Allied Carpets Sale).  I went out twice with the big crane, fortunately not to accidents but to booked engineering work that required that sort of lifting capacity.  If you drive into central Cardiff beneath the railway bridge over Newport Road just north of Queen Street station, you are looking at girders installed by this crane in one piece each, with a hydraulic 75 ton road crane on the other end over 2 sequential Saturday night shifts with me as the guard; a very easy job with nothing required from the train crew once we had delivered the crane to the site; we got our heads down in the mess coach until it was finished in the morning.

 

Shame to take the money sometimes, not that I ever gave any back...