Blue Square DMUs in Norfolk

[russ p]

As I need more DMUs for my layout and Bachmann haven't done a four light 101 which could be converted to a 79xxx I could do with another pair of 2car units.

I have two Derby lightweights but don't really want four

My question is when did cravens or actual 101s appear in Norfolk?

I do wonder whether it was a question of traction knowledge as units in the Norwich area seemed to be the yellow diamond types. So it may have been than Norwich men weren't trained on the blue square types. ( DMUs were signed by the type of MU code rather than class)

As my layout is the supposed apex of two routes one from Norwich and one from Lynn set 66 to 68 any information would be gladly received

[chrisf]

Blue square units started arriving in Norfolk around 1968.  It had been found that around a quarter of the dmu fleet was surplus to requirements so the axe fell on the so-called non-standard types, ie the Derby lightweights and the early Met-Camms.  Surplus Cravens were sent to Norfolk from Lincoln, Hull Botanic Gardens and Buxton.  Also drafted in were examples of classes 100, 101 and 108.  The process took about two years and in the end some of the withdrawn units were reinstated temporarily.

 

Chris

[Waveydavey]

Russ,

 

Hornby have done the four light front end on the ex Lima Met Cam.

But if you want an early unit adding the two missing lights to a Lima/Hornby or Bachmann front end is going to be the least of your problems. As well as adding the ‘spoiler’ to the front I think the underframe equipment was quite different.

[giz]

Cravens units were delivered new to Cambridge in 1958 and operated alongside their Derby lightweights on diagrams that worked via the Stour Valley into North Essex, to Ipswich via Bury St Edmunds and into South Norfolk so depending on exactly where in Norfolk you are they may well be justified.

[chrisf]

I would advise reading the comprehensive sections on the 101s and the early Met-Camms on www.railcar.co.uk.

 

Meanwhile, I have found some notes which I made to help me write some captions for possible inclusion on a magazine [more about that if/when they appear in print].  The early Met-Camms started to be withdrawn from Norwich around September 1968.  The 101s started arriving in June '68, some going to Cambridge first.  They had been based previously at various depots including Neville Hill, Dundee and Leith Central.  If a list of numbers world help I will see what I can do but it won't be today!

 

Chris

[russ p]

Thanks for the replies.

Think I can justify a cravens

Has Hornby done a power trailer four light blue 101?

The underfloor equipment isn't too different. Does the Hornby one still have full length rain strip?

[FPH 603]

Thanks for the replies.

Think I can justify a cravens

Has Hornby done a power trailer four light blue 101?

The underfloor equipment isn't too different. Does the Hornby one still have full length rain strip?

They've done a couple of 3 car ones. I believe one was coded R3146 and the other one I don't remember. From what I understand they may have the full length rain strip.

[giz]

Has Hornby done a power trailer four light blue 101?

As far as I know, neither Hornby nor Lima ever produced a power/trailer 101. However, the centre car trailer chassis is a straight swap into the driving motor composite. It looks like it was designed that way so a driving trailer could be produced but never was.

I've one Hornby 101 that I've done that to, on another Lima one I cut away the engine 'box', filled the hole with plasticard and added trailer car bits.

I think all the Lima and Hornby models have full length rain strips.

[russ p]

I have a Lima one somewhere that I converted to four light but the motor is awful and think the yellow panel I painted isn't great

[EddieK]

If using Lima / Hornby 101s, be aware that the cab windscreens are too tall as compared to the real thing.

[russ p]

If using Lima / Hornby 101s, be aware that the cab windscreens are too tall as compared to the real thing.

There are also quite a few other comprises such as full length gutters and they seem quite rare for decent money so I'll think I'll wait and see if Bachmann do a four light met cam

[chrisf]

Thanks for the replies.

Think I can justify a cravens

 

If the 1959 diagrams are any guide, you can.  In the course of a day several Cambridge based Cravens sets worked in and out of Norwich on locals from the Ipswich direction and one spent the night there.

 

By the way: little things like incorrect windscreens are easily modified.  It's called modelling.

 

Chris

[stewartingram]

Blue square units were there from the beginning with Cravens 105, and Wickham 109. Yellow diamond were Derby Lightweight and Met-Camm (NOT 101, but the earlier version).

In the mid 60s, with Beeching closures etc, there was some movement of secondhand units into the Anglia region. Principally, more 105, and 100. !01/104 worked cross-country Birmingham-Cambridge-Norwich services. The yellow diamonds went by the end of the decade; it was only then that 101 really became apparent, though on very rare occasions I had seen a 101 previously in earlier times.

Cambridge was the principal depot, with units working cyclic diagrams around the region. There was also a depot at Norwich though I believe that worked in conjunction with Cambridge for maintenance.

 

Stewart

[russ p]

Thanks chaps

I've never seen a picture of a 109 at Norwich.

There is what must be a rare picture of an all bleach 120 at cromer about 69

[chrisf]

It is a pity that no-one with a camera was at Norwich on 15th June 1958.  On that day "several" of the new Wickham units visited from Stratford.  Ever helpful, the Railway Observer does not say which or why.

 

Chris 

[russ p]

Trouble was back then few people would be interested.

I will never photograph any unit especially in post privatisation colours

[adanapress]

Re: Cambridge and Norwich Thorpe working together for early diesel maintainance.  Geoff Ford DMP at Norwich had a lifelong friend in Teddy Kerr at Cambridge, (and indeed another in Terry Miller at Stratford, they called themselves 'the three musketeers', if you want to why and how the Eastern Region actuallly made money in their day  then thats why!)   Geoff and Teddy worked together very closely  and sorted it all out between them.  When Geoff died and Teddy's wife died, the two survivors then married. Thats how close the families were. I should know, Mrs Miller tried to teach me play the piano!

[russ p]

Ahh the day of the real railwaymen....

[Dagworth]

Trouble was back then few people would be interested.

I will never photograph any unit especially in post privatisation colours

We need an "Ironic" button...

 

Andi

[w124bob]

Completely OT but back in 1987 I'd just arrived off the SR as a driver at Manchester Victoria. First day of blue square training our instructor says "we'll not have a hard week these will be gone by the end of the year". I learn't a lot about rose growing that week but b****r all about blue squares, thankfully I got through the next few years without failing or trouble.

[russ p]

I learned class 110s for my DMU course at Neville hill, never saw one one I'd passed but had quite a few 101 and 108 units and various route learning units including the loadhaul 122

[EddieK]

If the 1959 diagrams are any guide, you can.  In the course of a day several Cambridge based Cravens sets worked in and out of Norwich on locals from the Ipswich direction and one spent the night there.

 

By the way: little things like incorrect windscreens are easily modified.  It's called modelling.

 

Chris

Agreed about the modelling - have done just that to correct a Hornby (Lima) 101 myself.