Running Marklin 3-rail equipment on conventional HO/OO track?

[Fredashay]

I just today bought a Märklin Class 139 locomotive (Märklin #37406) fitted with DCC and sound, and train set (Märklin #43867), because I recently bought the infamous discocar (Märklin #43868) a few days ago, but my layout uses conventional 2-rail HO/OO track.

But rather than convert the train to run on 2-rail track and possibly ruin a very expensive locomotive and train set, I plan to convert a portion of my main line to 3 rail.  But I don't want to rip up all my track and replace it with Märklin track.  So I bought a couple of pieces of Märklin C-rail track this afternoon to discover how it works.  They are very creative in hiding the center rail.  There's a tiny metal stud in the center of each sleeper that provides power to the center pickup under the loco, while the two running rails are earth.  Brilliant!  This method solves the whole reversing loop problem.  So I plan to hammer tiny metal studs between the sleepers in the center of my existing track and power them through a new feeder wire under the layout.  I'll also have a switch and relays on the control panel to configure the 3 rails to run in standard 2-rail mode or 3-rail mode in which the 2 running rails are shunted to earth and the center rail is powered.  

Alas, this means I can't run my Märklin train and my other trains at the same time, or at least not on the same loop of track.  Small price to pay I suppose, since I don't intend to convert my entire layout to this bodge idea.

What do the rest of you think?  Workable idea?  Or just convert the train to run on 2-rail track?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fredashay

[Mike Buckner]

This might help. Fits Peco HO track (e.g. Code 100):

 

https://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=3327&P_ID=17519

[Fredashay]

That's perfect!  Apparently, other people have the same problem, lol.  In fact, I see it's just a long narrow strip of thin copper foil.  Can be made easily!  But it would still require ripping up my track and laying it back down again with the strip under the sleepers. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fredashay

[Mike Buckner]

Here's another picture:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PECO-SL-17-Stud-Contact-Strip-For-Track-Marklin-3-Rail-System-00-Gauge-New-/121290081435

[Dunsignalling]

No reason why it shouldn't work. The Marklin AC electrics make life interesting but you seem to have the bases covered.

 

Many years ago, I recall seeing a 2-rail layout that was partially laid to stud contact (electrical return being via the common rail with no pick-up from the other) to allow a banking loco to be operated under independent control.

 

John

Edited February 24, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Dagworth]

I just today bought a Märklin Class 139 locomotive (Märklin #37406) fitted with DCC and sound, and train set (Märklin #43867), because I recently bought the infamous discocar (Märklin #43868) a few days ago, but my layout uses conventional 2-rail HO/OO track.

 

But rather than convert the train to run on 2-rail track and possibly ruin a very expensive locomotive and train set, I plan to convert a portion of my main line to 3 rail.  But I don't want to rip up all my track and replace it with Märklin track.  So I bought a couple of pieces of Märklin C-rail track this afternoon to discover how it works.  They are very creative in hiding the center rail.  There's a tiny metal stud in the center of each sleeper that provides power to the center pickup under the loco, while the two running rails are earth.  Brilliant!  This method solves the whole reversing loop problem.  So I plan to hammer tiny metal studs between the sleepers in the center of my existing track and power them through a new feeder wire under the layout.  I'll also have a switch and relays on the control panel to configure the 3 rails to run in standard 2-rail mode or 3-rail mode in which the 2 running rails are shunted to earth and the center rail is powered.  

 

Alas, this means I can't run my Märklin train and my other trains at the same time, or at least not on the same loop of track.  Small price to pay I suppose, since I don't intend to convert my entire layout to this bodge idea.

 

What do the rest of you think?  Workable idea?  Or just convert the train to run on 2-rail track?

What is the pick-up under the Marklin stock? Is it a skate or just a button? If it is skate then you can use less studs, you only need them every third sleeper or so.

Stud contact is reasonably easy to do, remember that the studs can be permanently powered, it is only one rail that needs switching. You don't even need both rails as return, just use one rail and leave the other dead! I built Dagworth as stud contact for various reasons and later converted it back to two-rail. 

Points are the interesting part, there are two methods, both work equally well. One uses higher studs through the point that lifts the pick-up above the point rail, the other method is to switch the point rail and make it part of the stud system, that way all studs can be the same height. This comes in handy for stock with very tight clearances beneath...

 

The easiest way to fit stud contact to an existing layout would be to add the studs from fine nails and then run a tinned copper wire down the centre of the track wrapping each pin. Solder the wire to each pin or you will get poor contact as the pins/wire corrodes. The wire can then be hidden under a little extra ballast.

 

Andi

[Fredashay]

What is the pick-up under the Marklin stock? Is it a skate or just a button? If it is skate then you can use less studs, you only need them every third sleeper or so.

Stud contact is reasonably easy to do, remember that the studs can be permanently powered, it is only one rail that needs switching. You don't even need both rails as return, just use one rail and leave the other dead! I built Dagworth as stud contact for various reasons and later converted it back to two-rail. 

Points are the interesting part, there are two methods, both work equally well. One uses higher studs through the point that lifts the pick-up above the point rail, the other method is to switch the point rail and make it part of the stud system, that way all studs can be the same height. This comes in handy for stock with very tight clearances beneath...

 

The easiest way to fit stud contact to an existing layout would be to add the studs from fine nails and then run a tinned copper wire down the centre of the track wrapping each pin. Solder the wire to each pin or you will get poor contact as the pins/wire corrodes. The wire can then be hidden under a little extra ballast.

 

Andi

 

The pick-up under the discocar is a skate, but I haven't received the loco yet or other carriages, so I denno about them. 

 

Good point about the switching.  I wonder if I can modify the train slightly to use only one running rail for return?  That way I can put AC between one running rail (common) and the center studs, and DCC between the two running rails (just making sure that the same running rail is universal common for the AC and the DCC).  Or will that just blow up in my face Addams Family style?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fredashay

[UP 4000]

From the Rapido Trains APT-e to your own thread, Congratulations,

 

Both of my Entertainment cars (Disco Coach for APT-e) are Trix so run on 2 rail DC/DCC, For the coaches what you can do is swap out the wheel sets and the slider to E700580 for the wheels and the pick ups to 66720 will give you DC running.

For the locomotive, depending on age it may still be possible to get a DC wheelset and pickups for it, try finding the Trix counterpart and see if there available on the Marklin online shop https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/SpareParts/index

or try contacting them, it's worth looking into as at least you can then run it on your layout, I converted 2 Marklin class 4000 Big Boy locomotives, all parts were available apart from two sets of driving wheels which I had to double up on some others and build them myself, sound more daunting than it actually was, swapped out the decoder for a ESU one, motor untouched and they run superb,

[Fredashay]

Oh!  I'm an idiot!  I assumed the Trix and Märklin products would be the exact same item just with different branding on the box.  I just ordered the Trix version of the discocar from here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trix-23490-WGmh824-Disco-DCC-Sound/dp/B015OGTMHG

I guess I'll turn around and sell all the Märklin stuff on eBay when it arrives...  Or maybe I'll keep it.  I denno...

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fredashay

[Mike Buckner]

All Marklin rolling stock (powered and unpowered) has uninsulated wheelsets, which creates a direct short across the 2 rails. So you could not run DC/DCC locos on the same stretch of  track st the same time. You could switch circuits in and out and run them sequentially, or you could fit 2-rail wheelsets. You could also run the Märklin Class 139 locomotive off overhead catenary - it would still short the 2 rails unless fitted with 2-rail wheelsets

[UP 4000]

Oh!  I'm an idiot!  I assumed the Trix and Märklin products would be the exact same item just with different branding on the box.  I just ordered the Trix version of the discocar from here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trix-23490-WGmh824-Disco-DCC-Sound/dp/B015OGTMHG

I guess I'll turn around and sell all the Märklin stuff on eBay when it arrives...  Or maybe I'll keep it.  I denno...

 

Marklin is AC 3 rail, Trix is DC 2 rail, most rolling stock can be converted with wheelset E700580 and if pickups are required on newer stock try 66720, I think you've been a bit too hasty ordering the Trix Entertainment car, would be cheaper ordering the parts to convert the Marklin one, and wait until the other coaches arrive and check them out first, it's a dark art with Marklin but plenty of research and it can be done,

 

Not the best video but the red crane is Marklin and was converted to 2 rail DC/DCC, yellow is Trix and support coaches are Marklin with replaced wheelsets,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QX3mtkqJl4&t=13s

Edited February 24, 2018 by UP 4000

[Fredashay]

Marklin is AC 3 rail, Trix is DC 2 rail, most rolling stock can be converted with wheelset E700580 and if pickups are required on newer stock try 66720, I think you've been a bit too hasty ordering the Trix Entertainment car, would be cheaper ordering the parts to convert the Marklin one, and wait until the other coaches arrive and check them out first, it's a dark art with Marklin but plenty of research and it can be done,

 

Not the best video but the red crane is Marklin and was converted to 2 rail DC/DCC, yellow is Trix and support coaches are Marklin with replaced wheelsets,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QX3mtkqJl4&t=13s

 

Yeah, I didn't know Marklin and Trix were actually two brand names used by the same company, and that Marklin was the AC version while Trix was the DC/DCC version of the same items.  I never purchased any Marklin or Trix trains before this week.

 

Also, being as I collect rare and unusual trains, it has happened to me time and time again that I see something I want but wait a day to mull it over and find it's gone.  It took me quite a lot of searching online among countless out-of-stock Märklin trains before I found a loco, coaches, and discocar all in the same livery from various shops.  That's especially true that the particular livery used by the discocar is rare in itself.  So I've got in the habit of snapping things up that I've been searching for when I see them, especially when they seem to be rare.

 

So now that I ordered a Trix version of the discocar, I only need a Trix version of a DB loco in that livery.  I'll take your advice with the normal coaches and just swap the bogies. 

 

Or, if I order Trix versions of the DB coaches, I'll have a complete Märklin DB train set with locomotive, three coaches, and discocar all in the same livery, all new in box.  That has got to be a rare thing to come up for sale on eBay!

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fredashay

[UP 4000]

Just the wheels not the bogies,

 

Trix do this locomotive BR 217 https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/trix/trix-h0/locomotives/diesel-locomotives/56903/class-217-diesel-locomotive

 

For yours the Marklin  #37406 is a BR 139 and it looks like the complete bogie assembly is available as a Trix part, Trix #16961 https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/SpareParts/index?sSearchWords=16961&iBrandId=2&submit=

 

Wheels are https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/spare-parts/56643/radsatz-20-stueck not currently in stock, These ones are https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/spare-parts/33216/radsatz-2-stueck same wheels just different pack size,

Pickups https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/trix/trix-h0/accessories/lamps/53701/electrical-pickup-hardware

 

And one more for you https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/maerklin/gauge-h0/wagons/passenger-cars/50882/express-train-passenger-car As you can tell research is needed when working with Marklin but most of the time it is possible,

 

Hope this is some help to you,

[Fredashay]

Yes.  Thank you!  That Trix Class 217 is a nicer loco than the Marklin Class 139 that I bought.  I had started to search for Trix stuff, and am finding that Trix wheels, locos, and coaches are all out of stock everywhere I look, regardless of the livery.  It was sheer dumb luck that I found one single Trix discocar available straight away.  I was about to go back to my original plan to convert part of my layout to 3-rail operation as having a Marklin AC train is actually a welcome addition to my collection of weird trains, so I don't regret buying both AC/DCC and DC/DCC versions of the discocar or the two DB locos.  So those links all helps greatly :-)

Edited February 26, 2018 by Fredashay

[DCB]

Peco stud contact strip should be in everyone's tool/ junk box as it is incredibly useful for pickups and all sorts of miscellaneous tasks.   I never actually tried it for its intended purpose.

Plain track should be a doddle but stopping the pickups hitting the various rails on pointwork will be a challenge

[Fredashay]

Well, now that I have both Marklin and Trix discocars in my grubby little hands, this whole thread is now pointless.  I ordered that Trix Class 217 loco that Craig linked me to https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/trix/trix-h0/locomotives/diesel-locomotives/56903/class-217-diesel-locomotive .  And I can replace the wheels on those DB coaches that haven't arrived yet, or order Trix versions if I come across them in the future.  So I'm happy and delirious :-)

 

Nonetheless, I had set a few brain cells to the task of solving that problem with the points.  I had planned to cut the rails to the points, themselves, so they are electrically dead.  This should not cause a problem for any of my locos except for something like a Class 08.  I rarely run shunters on my main line, so it's a limitation I could have lived with, unless someone here thinks of a problem with that idea that slipped my mind -- and as you all may have noticed, my mind is rather slippery.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Fredashay

[Fredashay]

Anyone know where I can download instructions in English for the discocar?

[UP 4000]

Anyone know where I can download instructions in English for the discocar?

 

Here's a link, scroll down for English instructions,

 

https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/c8/96/c89669eea53d28dabeec12defeb309011464018018.pdf

 

Starts page 7,

Edited March 2, 2018 by UP 4000

[Fredashay]

Thank you!

Also, these were included on the Micro SD card inside the carriage:

 

Anleitung zum Musik aufspielen auf den Märklin Gesellschaftswagen mit Sound:

1. In das Verzeichnis "Konverter" auf der microSD-Karte wechseln.
2. Die gewünschte Musik (maximal 5 Dateien auf einmal) in einem anderen Verzeichnis markieren. Die Dateinamen sollten keine Sonderzeichen, Umlaute usw. enthalten.
3. Die markierten Dateien per Drag and Drop auf die Datei "MUSIK_HIER_DRAUFLEGEN.bat" ziehen.
4. Für jede Datei die konvertiert wird, erscheint im Kommandozeilenfenster eine neue Zeile mit dem Pfad und Namen der Datei.
5. Warten bis im Kommandozeilenfenster folgendes steht: "Drücken Sie eine beliebige Taste . . .".
6. Eine beliebige Taste drücken.
7. Im Verzeichnis "Musik" auf der microSD-Karte prüfen, ob alle Dateien erfolgreich konvertiert wurden.


Der Märklin Gesellschaftswagen mit Sound spielt bis zu fünf Geräusche ab. Diese fünf Geräusche müssen einen definierten Namen haben und können gegen eigene Geräusche ausgewechselt werden.
Anleitung zum Geräusche auswechseln auf dem Märklin Gesellschaftswagen mit Sound:

1. Schritte 1 bis 7 der vorherigen Anleitung mit dem gewünschten Geräusch abarbeiten.
2. Das konvertierte Geräusch aus dem Verzeichnis Musik ausschneiden und im Verzeichnis Geräusche einfügen.
3. Es werden nur Geräusche mit folgenden Namen abgespielt: Sound_1.wav, Sound_2.wav, Sound_3.wav, Sound_4.wav, Sound_5.wav
4. Falls bereits 5 Geräusche vorhanden: Eins der fünf Geräusche löschen oder umbenennen.
5. Das eigene Geräusch umbenennen, damit es einen der 5 definierten Namen hat.

 

 

 

Google Translate did a pretty good job of translating them to English:

 

Instructions for playing music on the Märklin company car with sound:

1. Change to the directory "Converter" on the microSD card.
2. Highlight the desired music (max. 5 files at once) in another directory. The file names should not contain special characters, umlauts, etc.
3. Drag the marked files onto the file "MUSIK_HIER_DRAUFLEGEN.bat".
4. For each file being converted, a new line appears in the command line window with the path and name of the file.
5. Wait until the command line window says "Press any key ...".
6. Press any key.
7. In the "Music" directory on the microSD card, check that all files have been successfully converted.


The Märklin company car with sound plays up to five sounds. These five sounds must have a defined name and can be substituted for their own sounds.
Instructions for changing noise on the Märklin company car with sound:

1. Complete steps 1 to 7 of the previous manual with the desired sound.
2. Cut the converted sound from the Music directory and paste it in the Sounds directory.
3. Only sounds with the following names are played: Sound_1.wav, Sound_2.wav, Sound_3.wav, Sound_4.wav, Sound_5.wav
4. If there are already 5 noises: Delete or rename one of the five sounds.
5. Rename your own sound so that it has one of the 5 defined names.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Fredashay

[Fredashay]

...and I just noticed something, ahem, bizarre.  The discocar came with a small baggie full of assorted HO/OO figures in various dancing poses.  I thought nothing more of them and set them aside and ignored them until now when I thought it would be a good idea to glue them inside the carriage as seems to be their intended purpose...  Well, there's one figure of a woman lifting her top and showing her boobs!  Really, Marklin?!?!  Does that sort of thing go on in nightclubs in Germany?!?!

[New Haven Neil]

...and I just noticed something, ahem, bizarre.  The discocar came with a small baggie full of assorted HO/OO figures in various dancing poses.  I thought nothing more of them and set them aside and ignored them until now when I thought it would be a good idea to glue them inside the carriage as seems to be their intended purpose...  Well, there's one figure of a woman lifting her top and showing her boobs!  Really, Marklin?!?!  Does that sort of thing go on in nightclubs in Germany?!?!

 

Down the Reeperbahn, yes!  Much much worse.....

[Martin S-C]

Hi all, I have just bought a Maerklin <<37285>> V188 DB heavy double car diesel loco and want to convert it to 2-rail DCC. It has the skate for centre stud contact and presumably non-isolated wheels. The instruction booklet mentions only for use with Maerklin systems (Maerklin AC / Maerklin Delta / Maerklin Digital / Maerklin Systems).

[DIW]

There are usually two options for such a conversion:

Sell the item and buy the equivalent Hamo branded version - that tends to be the "Marklin" 2-rail DC item.

OR, if there isn't an Hamo version produced,

Obtain the Marklin DC conversion kit - replacement wheels of course, plus other gubbins as required (may or may not require a different motor, or a replacement magnet for a field coil).

Usually, Gaugemaster are the best folk to contact for these.

If neither a Hamo DC version nor a Marklin D conversion kit are available, then you are looking at a project. If this is your solution, then please take photos and start a thread showing the conversion!

 

Hope this is helpful, but I am aware that it may not be the news you wanted. 

 

[Martin S-C]

Thanks for your help. I'll try Gaugemaster for a conversion kit. Having just bought the thing I have no desire to sell it and make a loss!

[UP 4000]

For 2 rail DC/DCC running always try Trix first, I've converted two Marklin Big Boys to 2 rail DC/DCC, new DC wheel sets were needed, 2 drivers weren't available so I had to over order and make my own and wheel pickup were also needed. The motors were fine so were the decoders but swapped them out for ESU V4's DC parts were available as Marklin done Trix versions so used them.

For your loco it may not be possible as it's a MHI series one, one time only,  https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/37285/

Another option is to buy Marklin AC 3 rail track and run it on it's own circuit,