Wye River City - Carl Carendt

[Milano]

Folks

 

I am about to start building my first ever US model railway layout in HO gauge and have decided for the available space I have that a plan drawn by Carl Caredt called " Wye Rive City" would be most suitable. I have a few Peco points in stock but when it comes to wiring a layout I find it a bit of a challenge so without infringing copyright could some maybe take a look at the plan on Carl's website and tell me where the electrician feeds , magnets etc go.

 

Kind regards

Milano

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Milano,

 

As a basic rule, "feed power into the Toe of the turnout" is a good start.

 

For "Wye River City",

 

and assuming you are using Insulfrog Turnouts,
I would suggest that it could be wired at-a-minimum with:

 

- a pair of feeders on the tail-track between the structures which form the "Big Factory" at Right

- a pair of feeders right where the Cassette at left joins the "landward" trackage, under the "overhead walkway" at the "Warehouse"

 

Again, assuming the use of Insulfrog Turnouts, and a single-loco-at-a-time operation,
one could add additional feeders to eliminate the reliance on rail-joiners and switchrail<>stockrail contact points,
but this would also start disabling any "turnout-switched spur" control
(IE park a loco on either the "Grain" or "Factory" spur, throw the turnout, and the loco is isolated and stays-put)

 

If using ElectroFrog Turnouts, there will also need to be some additional isolation-gaps added at the Heel End of all 4x turnouts.

 

Hopefully this helps,
if you can confirm whether you intend to use Insulfrog or ElectroFrog turnouts,
and whether you intend to use Analog or DCC,
then we can certainly provide some more-specific wiring assistance...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[Milano]

Dear Milano,

 

As a basic rule, "feed power into the Toe of the turnout" is a good start.

 

For "Wye River City",

 

 

and assuming you are using Insulfrog Turnouts,

I would suggest that it could be wired at-a-minimum with:

 

- a pair of feeders on the tail-track between the structures which form the "Big Factory" at Right

- a pair of feeders right where the Cassette at left joins the "landward" trackage, under the "overhead walkway" at the "Warehouse"

 

Again, assuming the use of Insulfrog Turnouts, and a single-loco-at-a-time operation,

one could add additional feeders to eliminate the reliance on rail-joiners and switchrail<>stockrail contact points,

but this would also start disabling any "turnout-switched spur" control

(IE park a loco on either the "Grain" or "Factory" spur, throw the turnout, and the loco is isolated and stays-put)

 

If using ElectroFrog Turnouts, there will also need to be some additional isolation-gaps added at the Heel End of all 4x turnouts.

 

Hopefully this helps,

if you can confirm whether you intend to use Insulfrog or ElectroFrog turnouts,

and whether you intend to use Analog or DCC,

then we can certainly provide some more-specific wiring assistance...

 

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

Wow what can I say Prof Klyzlt. Thank you for assistance. I intend to use insulfrog points with analog control but at sometime in the future. If I used Peco Electrofrog points would this change the look of the track plan? Please include wiring for both if you don't mind.

Many thanks again.

 

Milano

[JAMO]

With Electrofrog Peco turnouts: only 4 wires to solder to the rails. No more.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Milano,

 

You asked....

 

First up, the following is really the minimum required for either Analog or DCC, using Insulfrog turnouts
The RED and BLUE arrows are feeders.
This plan will allow a loco to be parked on a spur, isolated by simply throwing the turnout, then running out another loco.

 

 

 

If you are looking at using DCC, or want more-reliability from Analog, adding feeders as-shown is reccomended.
It will reduce the reliance on rail-joiners and the Switch/stockrail contact at each turnout to pass power,
but equally will eliminate the "park a loco, throw the turnout, and the loco stays where it was put" functionality.
Again, the RED and BLUE arrows are feeders.

 

 

 

If we are using ElectroFrog turnouts, 
(Like the PECO Code 83 US geometry ElectroFrog turnouts),

 

on ANALOG (the below is not technically "DCC friendly", although with correctly-gauged wheels it should still work for DCC),

 

then we will need to cut isolating gaps (or use insulating rail joiners)
on the HEEL end rails of each frog. 
(Shown on the diagram below by the pair of parallel RED lines)

 

 

 

 

Now, if we want to use ElectroFrog Turnouts _and_ DCC,
then we''re kinda-obligated to "go the Whole-hog", and ensure the wiring is fully "DCC friendly"
(IE maintains powered rail everywhere, while eliminating any possibility of glancing-short issues which can plague poorly-gauged DCC layouts and equipment)

 

In this case, shown below:

- RED and BLUE arrows are feeders.
- NOTE! that there are Additional RED and BLUE feeders wired to the Switchrails of the turnouts
(This way, the switchrail and adjacent Stockrail are guaranteed to be the same polarity under all conditions,
avoiding "glancing back-of-wheel shorts". This is a key part of making a turnout "DCC Friendly".
Instead of connecting the switchrails to the track-buss, jumpering them to the adjacent stockrail would also work...)
- The Frogs of each turnout have their own feeder, shown in GREEN.
This can be powered using a microswitch mechanically triggered by the turnout throwbar,
OR using some form of active electronic switching circuit like a Tam Valley Depot "Frog Juicer".
- Each turnout has insulating joints (gaps or insulating joiners) on the HEEL-end of the frog,

and on the TOE end of the frog
(PECO include little wire links which can be snipped from the underside of the turnout to achieve the required insulating gaps)
 

 

 

 

I hope this helps. If there are any terminology issues or questions about the above,
I strongly reccomend you ask and get-them-answered First, BEFORE firing up the soldering iron or laying any track!
(This is one of those situations where getting the plan-of-attack clearly in-mind before starting the job will repay in a smooth installation which "just works")

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Edited April 8, 2018 by Prof Klyzlr

[Milano]

What a comprehensive reply prof. Thanks very much again. Turns out I only have 4 insulfrog wye points in stock so I will be using them. I will report back in a day or two once I have them and the track down.

 

Really appreciate your help and advice

 

Milano

[mogtrains]

the only thing I would add to this, if you're using insulfrogs (which are fine by the way!).. you may want to consider soldering a jumper wire across from the stock rail to the point rail, that way you aren't relying upon the rails touching and there being zero dirt/paint for connectivity.. a little extra work but it might save a deal of frustration later on. :-)

[Milano]

From an operational point how many cars do I need to use and what sort of switching could I do? I assume I start using a loco and a box car from the cassette end and spot the car randomly or use cards etc to determine where it should go.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

Milano

[jcm@gwr]

I believe that layout was designed with the Tyme-Saver concept in mind,

so 6 wagons, 3 already in place, and 3 to be brought in and 'switched',

and all against the clock, or in the minimum number of moves.

But that doesn't mean you can't just shunt to a sequence, or random

system (dice throw, cards, etc.),either way, just have fun!

[johna]

Looks an interesting track plan in an small space. I am sure I have seen someone build a simular layout. Keep us posted on the build.

 

Johna

[Regularity]

wagons

Not sure how horse-drawn farm vehicles are going to help...

[Milano]

I have started putting together the baseboard and getting some track into position but doing this makes you realise how small this layout will be.

 

Not sure what the smallest HO layout is but this be close.. Think I am going to enjoy this buiild.

 

Any advice on what locos I should be using on could the track plan be improved,

 

Milano

[Zomboid]

I doubt you'll be able to use anything bigger than an SW sized loco. I'd probably stick with a 45 tonner or an 0-6-0 tank engine if it suited the era.

[Milano]

I have increased the size of the layout to 48" and the first loco ran up and down last night. I using a SW but will be getting a 45T as well.

 

Where is the best to put magnets and how many would I need?

 

Thanks

Milano

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Milano,

 

 

 

I have increased the size of the layout to 48" and the first loco ran up and down last night.

 

Well done! Glad to hear it's working for you :-)

 

 

 

I using a SW but will be getting a 45T as well.

 

Nice, either should work well given the tight spaces...

 

 

 

Where is the best to put magnets and how many would I need?

 

Hmmm, interesting question. Magnetic Uncoupling on curves is always challenging, esp if you intend to make use of the Kadee "delayed uncoupling" function. It is also tempting to place a magnet every single location you think you may need to uncouple, which is usually not the case.

 

As a starter, reccomend reading thru Kadee's document on the subject, including an active "how to analyse where magnets should go" exercise.
https://kadee.com/html/delay.pdf

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[Milano]

Just ordered two magnets to try them on various places around the layout.

 

Milano

[Jerry1975]

Hi Milano.

 

I got given a kadee magnet and they work pretty good.

I too need get some more.

 

Jerry.

[Milano]

I believe that layout was designed with the Tyme-Saver concept in mind,

so 6 wagons, 3 already in place, and 3 to be brought in and 'switched',

and all against the clock, or in the minimum number of moves.

But that doesn't mean you can't just shunt to a sequence, or random

system (dice throw, cards, etc.),either way, just have fun!

I have been experimenting today with a number sequences. Hopefully this is how the plan should work. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am placing 3 boxcars on at various spots on the layout then by a random selection (card) introduce another car on the team track and pushed unto the layout by a loco. However if the spot selected already has a car on it I have a number of moves to make to remove said car from its spot. I do hope I am making sense. A further two cars are introduced using the same principles

 

Milano.

[jcm@gwr]

I have been experimenting today with a number sequences. Hopefully this is how the plan should work. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am placing 3 boxcars on at various spots on the layout then by a random selection (card) introduce another car on the team track and pushed unto the layout by a loco. However if the spot selected already has a car on it I have a number of moves to make to remove said car from its spot. I do hope I am making sense. A further two cars are introduced using the same principles

 

Milano.

 

Not exactly what I mean't, but that doesn't mean it's wrong!

If you enjoy the random element of what you're doing, great!

 

But, rather than trying to explain what I meant, try this link to

the site where I learnt all about the Tymesaver (and Inglenook)

You will find it works well on Google, but not Chrome.

 

http://www.precisionlabels.com/shunt/home.html

 

Have fun!

 

Jeff