Freightliner 86’s

[Ncarter2]

Good news for 86 fan’s. Freightliner are to overhaul all the bogies under their 16 loco’s. They are also considering other modifications, looks like they are here for some time yet.

[PM47079]

A very useful loco still. The wiper motors have all been changed from air powered motors to electric ones. I still get real pleasure out of driving them, it’s very welcome news.

[phil-b259]

Slightly surprised at this - given the class90s used by Anglia are going to be spare in a few years time and the lack of any obvious use for them,  then I would have thought Freightliner might have been able to strike a good deal to take a few on and ditch the 86s.

 

Mind you if Frieightliner own the 86s outright then doing the bogie work and keeping them for the long time might be better financially.

 

Plus of course it may be that the bogie overhauls cannot wait and have to be done now anyway to tide the company over.

[YesTor]

Great news!  And to think that these locos are over fifty years old. 

[Pandora]

A very useful loco still. The wiper motors have all been changed from air powered motors to electric ones. I still get real pleasure out of driving them, it’s very welcome news.

I have tried to find diagrams fir the workings of the 86's,  please can you post the diagrams if you have them?

 

The 86 workings over the North London line are the least  travelling for me

Edited April 10, 2018 by Pandora

[Pete the Elaner]

Slightly surprised at this - given the class90s used by Anglia are going to be spare in a few years time and the lack of any obvious use for them,  then I would have thought Freightliner might have been able to strike a good deal to take a few on and ditch the 86s.

 

Mind you if Frieightliner own the 86s outright then doing the bogie work and keeping them for the long time might be better financially.

 

Plus of course it may be that the bogie overhauls cannot wait and have to be done now anyway to tide the company over.

I saw a comment recently stating that 2x90s draw too much power from the lower capacity OLE in parts of the Eastern, but 2x86s don't. Maybe 2 are required on a freight in case 1 fails on route? I saw this mentioned some time ago as the reason 86/4's/86/6's always work in multiple.

 

Or maybe it is, as previously mentioned, that they need the motive power available before the 90s become available?

[Titan]

More likely for grip. 80 odd tons on four axles is somewhat limiting. The class 90s have thyristor control, and the smoother action significantly reduces wheel slip,so that they can haul a longer train than a single 86.

[PM47079]

The 90s draw too much current for the poor old Great Eastern overheads. So that’s them ruled out in pairs on GE work. A single 90 isn’t much good for the weights of a lot of the trains these days. A pair of 86s are able to operate on the great eastern and pull a trailing load of 1800+ tonnes which suits a lot of the loadings. The 90s are worse for wheelslip because of the greater power they produce a tiny little slip and wheeeeee! The wheels don’t half spin. The only drawback with a pair of 86s is if the front loco fails you can’t get anything from the back loco either as I have found out. When they had the original jumpers there was a control cut out switch. But the tdm system of multi working doesn’t allow it.

[Classsix T]

Lower geared 86501 more often than not works singly doesn't she? If still available, natch.

 

C6T.

[Zomboid]

Great news! And to think that these locos are over fifty years old.

Though most of their components are probably newer.

Electric locos working at over 50 isn't that extraordinary. SBB Crocs got to nearer 70, and the Iowa Traction Railway operates Baldwin steeplecabs which are over 100.

It's still good going, though, for any loco to make it to 50 and still have a future that warrants significant investment.

[Pete the Elaner]

Lower geared 86501 more often than not works singly doesn't she? If still available, natch.

 

C6T.

I remember seeing it out working alone, but I understand it has since been converted back to 86608.

[4630]

 

 

Mind you if Frieightliner own the 86s outright then doing the bogie work and keeping them for the long time might be better financially.

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's very pertinent I should think.  With the exception of 86609 and 86610, which are listed as owned by Porterbrook Leasing, Freightliner own their remaining operational 86s.

 

Presumably the work will be done at their facility at Basford Hall, although I recall that bogie work on 90041 was done at Leeds Midland Road early last year.

[russ p]

The 90s draw too much current for the poor old Great Eastern overheads. So that’s them ruled out in pairs on GE work. A single 90 isn’t much good for the weights of a lot of the trains these days. A pair of 86s are able to operate on the great eastern and pull a trailing load of 1800+ tonnes which suits a lot of the loadings. The 90s are worse for wheelslip because of the greater power they produce a tiny little slip and wheeeeee! The wheels don’t half spin. The only drawback with a pair of 86s is if the front loco fails you can’t get anything from the back loco either as I have found out. When they had the original jumpers there was a control cut out switch. But the tdm system of multi working doesn’t allow it.

I'm surprised they never went back to the old jumpers when privatised as your locos won't be working with DVTs anymore and they could get rid of the TDM rack

[Pete the Elaner]

I'm surprised they never went back to the old jumpers when privatised as your locos won't be working with DVTs anymore and they could get rid of the TDM rack

I t would probably depend on how much of the system has been removed. The jumper cables themselves have gone & I would assume that some of the associated systems have also been removed.

I know 87002 has had cables re-fitted (& probably also 86401, but I've not seen that for well over a year so can't remember). I would expect these are just cosmetic restorations though.

[PM47079]

86501 kept getting through traction motors.although there was nothing wrong with the concept the motors were worked very hard and never lasted as well.

[PM47079]

I'm surprised they never went back to the old jumpers when privatised as your locos won't be working with DVTs anymore and they could get rid of the TDM rack

They very occasionally multi a 90 with an 86 with the 86 leading.but i agree with you the tdm isnt really needed for anything other than controlling the other loco.

[Titan]

I'm surprised they never went back to the old jumpers when privatised as your locos won't be working with DVTs anymore and they could get rid of the TDM rack

 

Not all 86's had the old jumpers either, so for some it would be a completely new installation rather than replacing existing kit. An awful lot of hassle for not much benefit if you already have a system in place.

[Pete the Elaner]

Not all 86's had the old jumpers either, so for some it would be a completely new installation rather than replacing existing kit. An awful lot of hassle for not much benefit if you already have a system in place.

All of Freightliner's were 86/4s, which had the old jumpers.

 

86/1s & 86/2/s (& therefore the original 86/5s which reverted to 86/2s) were the ones which didn't.

[cheesysmith]

Not a surprise that they are keeping the 86s. Fully paid off so owe them nothing. And unlike the 90s that have a limited component life (I think there is a problem with the main transformers on them, or being able to get replacements that don't cost too much) the 86s are clockwork controls. No problem getting micro chips for them.

[Supaned]

I presume the recent version of 86501 was sitting on re-geared bogies , so presumably a relatively simple swap to convert back to a "standard" 86/6?

 

Glad to hear these old warhorses are to be kept going - of all the traction I've signed , 86s were a personal favourite, and if I'm honest , the one type I'd love to have another go with,

['CHARD]

 With the exception of 86609 and 86610, which are listed as owned by Porterbrook Leasing, Freightliner own their remaining operational 86s.

 

 

609 and 610 are also Freightliner owned now.

[PM47079]

I presume the recent version of 86501 was sitting on re-geared bogies , so presumably a relatively simple swap to convert back to a "standard" 86/6?

 

Glad to hear these old warhorses are to be kept going - of all the traction I've signed , 86s were a personal favourite, and if I'm honest , the one type I'd love to have another go with,

If i remember correctly 86247 provided a lot of the parts to convert 86501 back to an 86/6. The trouble with the 90s are as you would expect getting spares for the electronics which are from the 1980s and we know how obsolete those parts are. The 86/87locos in the uk and abroad as well are more old fashioned engineering and parts are able to be remade i imagine

[phil-b259]

But if the 86s are a much better fit for Freightliner, it begs the question of why they didn't try and pick up the ex Anglia ones a few years ago (the ones subsiquently dispatched to Eastern Europe IIRC) and dump the 90s? Could this be a viable option for the future

[4630]

609 and 610 are also Freightliner owned now.

 

 

Thanks for the correction.  I was quoting the information from the usually reliable http://www.abrail.co.uk website.

[PM47079]

Different times and different owners of the company i suppose. Back then there were plenty of 86s about. It seems to be a recent decision to fully commit to them

Edited April 10, 2018 by PM47079