Freightliner 86’s

[Pete the Elaner]

But if the 86s are a much better fit for Freightliner, it begs the question of why they didn't try and pick up the ex Anglia ones a few years ago (the ones subsiquently dispatched to Eastern Europe IIRC) and dump the 90s? Could this be a viable option for the future

The Anglia ones were 86/2s. Freightliner's are all 86/6s which were conversions from 86/4s. The 2 sub-classes had different traction motors & I believe other differences too. I assume this made 86/2s less suitable for freight?

[Pete the Elaner]

I t would probably depend on how much of the system has been removed. The jumper cables themselves have gone & I would assume that some of the associated systems have also been removed.

I know 87002 has had cables re-fitted (& probably also 86401, but I've not seen that for well over a year so can't remember). I would expect these are just cosmetic restorations though.

86401 is now back in London & was in Euston this morning. Its old MU jumpers have not been restored, the mounting points are still plated over.

[PM47079]

The Anglia ones were 86/2s. Freightliner's are all 86/6s which were conversions from 86/4s. The 2 sub-classes had different traction motors & I believe other differences too. I assume this made 86/2s less suitable for freight?

The 86/6 locos use a mono bloc wheelset and the 86/2 uses the SAB resilient wheels with the rubber segments in where only the weight of the tyres and tyre disc rests unsprung on the rails the axleboxes springs and motor are suspended by the resilience of the SAB wheel. Shocks and stresses are greatly reduced and as a result 100 mph running is permitted. In the old days the 86/3 were locos with SAB wheels but not flexicoil suspension springs, the 86/0 had neither SAB or flexicoil. The 86/0 And 86/3 then became the 86/4 some of which had the SAB wheels removed and monobloc wheels fitted and became freight only. The 86/1 of course had the 87 bogie fitted. I presume an 86/2 could be used by Freightliner but then you have to stock two different types of motors I presume, and the SAB wheels are higher maintenance. But you could monobloc them and renumber to an 86/6

[rodent279]

Apparently, some tests were done when it was realised that the unsprung motors on class 86's were not only knocking 7 bells out of the track, but causing brushes to disintegrate at an alarming rate.

Someone had the idea of fitting a small camera inside the traction motor, to see exactly what was going on. It was then calculated that a camera inside the motor would have to withstand accelerations of up to 100g. No camera in the world would take that sort of punishment.

[Classsix T]

The 86/6 locos use a mono bloc wheelset and the 86/2 uses the SAB resilient wheels with the rubber segments in where only the weight of the tyres and tyre disc rests unsprung on the rails the axleboxes springs and motor are suspended by the resilience of the SAB wheel. Shocks and stresses are greatly reduced and as a result 100 mph running is permitted. In the old days the 86/3 were locos with SAB wheels but not flexicoil suspension springs, the 86/0 had neither SAB or flexicoil. The 86/0 And 86/3 then became the 86/4 some of which had the SAB wheels removed and monobloc wheels fitted and became freight only. The 86/1 of course had the 87 bogie fitted. I presume an 86/2 could be used by Freightliner but then you have to stock two different types of motors I presume, and the SAB wheels are higher maintenance. But you could monobloc them and renumber to an 86/6

I love this hobby! I'm in equal ignorance and understanding of the above in equal measure at the same time!

 

C6T.

[rodent279]

A SAB resilient wheel is a wheel that is built up, with a central "hub" and an outer "rim" which includes the tyres. The hub and rim are connected by a series of thick, tough rubber blocks, which provide some resilience, or "give", thus softening the effect of unsprung weight on the track.

[E3109]

Hoping to get a pair in a bit, as per my docket. Bet I don't though! Been bowled out on a few diagrams that show 2x86/6 of late. Mind you as they're undergoing a mini refurb programme it's understandable.

 

As 47079 says, 90s slip like buggery when it's wet.

86s will slip too but not to the same extent, and being the lovely old-school ladies that they are, will tend to give you a clue they're about to play up by making grumbling and/or whiny noises beforehand...

 

"You've got to talk to them", as one of my colleagues says.

And I do haha.

 

Just as an aside, 86608 still retains the extra sanding kit that it received during its 'Christine' days.

There's an extra, external sandbox which is rather large and visible, something modellers may want to take note of.

 

Cheers

E3109

[Supaned]

watch the ammeters dance , E3109?

[298]

Though most of their components are probably newer.

Electric locos working at over 50 isn't that extraordinary. SBB Crocs got to nearer 70, and the Iowa Traction Railway operates Baldwin steeplecabs which are over 100.

 

Only one (number 60) is 100, the others are relatively new by comparison, as they were built in the 1920s...

[PM47079]

Hoping to get a pair in a bit, as per my docket. Bet I don't though! Been bowled out on a few diagrams that show 2x86/6 of late. Mind you as they're undergoing a mini refurb programme it's understandable.

 

As 47079 says, 90s slip like buggery when it's wet.

86s will slip too but not to the same extent, and being the lovely old-school ladies that they are, will tend to give you a clue they're about to play up by making grumbling and/or whiny noises beforehand...

 

"You've got to talk to them", as one of my colleagues says.

And I do haha.

 

Cheers

E3109

Yep you do have to talk to them coax them a little here and there. We have a driver whose dad and grandad drove the 86s in their career. They just go on and on..

[Ncarter2]

Have many fond memories of cab riding on the 87’s and 90’s used by Virgin. Every now and then we get a pair of 86’s on a freight as our engineer was keen we see how the track was with freight.

[E3109]

Incidentally re 86501/86608.

If anyone requires a detailed shot of the engine's extra sandbox let me know on here, and I'll snap it next time it's on the yard.

Photos are on Flickr etc but more than happy to get close up shots of it.

[E3109]

Caught up with 86608 yesterday, just for info the engine has not one but FOUR extra sandboxes from its days as the regeared 86501. Two per side.

No idea how I missed that, mustn't have prepped that loco for years as many of my jobs don't involve a prep, just step on/off.

 

I will post the photos on this thread when I get the chance, if anyone wants them. It is markedly different from the others in that respect.

Incidentally, FL's 86s all retain the two exhausters, purely as ballast I'd presume as they never work in vac these days and it's quite possible they're isolated. Never had reason to flick the air/vac selector switch and I daren't anyway!

 

The exception to this is 86608, as one exhauster has been removed to make way for the sandbox in that location.

[E3109]

Here you go gents, 86608's extra sandboxes, still fitted from the time of its 86501 incarnation.

 

 

 

[Jim Martin]

Not a lot of standardisation there!

 

Jim

[Dick Turpin]

Anyone fancy a gratuitous picture? 

 

 

One I snapped near Northallerton in 2008. Only one I have ever seen on the East Coast.

[admiles]

Here you go gents, 86608's extra sandboxes, still fitted from the time of its 86501 incarnation.

 

Would there have originally been another compressor in the left hand rack where the sandbox now is anyone know?

[E3109]

Yes, two compressors on the transformer side, and two exhausters on the corridor (window) side.

One compressor was removed several years ago, but the two exhausters remain in situ on all 86/6s apart from 86608.  

[rodent279]

Were 86's AB from new?

[E3109]

Yes (dual braked) and I also found a photo of one of the early examples E3101 or 3102, in the paint shops at Donny undergoing testing, it was complete apart from the logo and numbers.

The photo is dated 1964! October or November I think. When I get home I'll dig the book out to check.

[russ p]

Yes, two compressors on the transformer side, and two exhausters on the corridor (window) side.

One compressor was removed several years ago, but the two exhausters remain in situ on all 86/6s apart from 86608.

 

Do they still manage to blow the train up in decent time with only one compressor? Must be slow if only one loco.

I find it odd that 90s go onto one compressor at 8 bar

[E3109]

No worse than any other loco, can any old hands here elaborate on whether the dual compressor arrangement was any better at blowing up the brake?

I may very well be wrong, but my guess is that the twin compressors only operated one at a time in any case, and that the second one was taken off to save on maintenance costs.

[E3109]

Yes (dual braked) and I also found a photo of one of the early examples E3101 or 3102, in the paint shops at Donny undergoing testing, it was complete apart from the logo and numbers.

The photo is dated 1964! October or November I think. When I get home I'll dig the book out to check.

Update now I'm home, photo is dated 9-11-64 and the loco, E3101, has its numbers (and shiny paint).

The book is 'E for Electrics' by Book Law Publications, an absolute gem for anyone interested in the subject. Plenty of SR and MSW stuff in there too.

ISBN 9-781909-625051