DMU guards van windows

[Titan]

Several classes of first generation DMU had windows in the end of the brake coach, adjacent to the gangway. Presumably this was for the guard to be able to view something, but what? Was it something specific to DMU's hence why most hauled coaching stock and EMU's did not have this feature?

 

But then not all DMU's had them either...

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ian

 

Guards on passenger trains when DMUs were introduced were still had to observe the signals and if necessary apply the brakes.

On hauled stock the guard had duckets or periscopes, and 3rd rail  EMUs he had periscopes.

On overhead electrics the guard had two mirrors one facing each direction fitted to the doors of the van. They can be seen between the R and C.

 

I suspect the windows in the van end gave him a reasonable view in one direction and popping into the passenger saloon a view through the front in the other direction. Were any fitted with periscopes, I am thinking of the Inter-city units that did not have forward view and windows in the guards van?

[Titan]

Hi Ian

 

Guards on passenger trains when DMUs were introduced were still had to observe the signals and if necessary apply the brakes.

On hauled stock the guard had duckets or periscopes, and 3rd rail  EMUs he had periscopes.

On overhead electrics the guard had two mirrors one facing each direction fitted to the doors of the van. They can be seen between the R and C.

 

I suspect the windows in the van end gave him a reasonable view in one direction and popping into the passenger saloon a view through the front in the other direction. Were any fitted with periscopes, I am thinking of the Inter-city units that did not have forward view and windows in the guards van?

 

Interesting, Does not look like the guard would be able to see much out of those tiny mirrors on the 308!  And what about those units with a brake in the center coach, the guard would have to walk in to the next vehicle to get any kind of forward vision, or did they have windows in both ends?

[AMJ]

The end window is an easy and safe way to view the next vehicle without sticking your head out of the window.

Many will remember the TV series Young Ones when a person makes comments about the notice advising to not lean out of the window then loses his head!

[Titan]

The end window is an easy and safe way to view the next vehicle without sticking your head out of the window.

Many will remember the TV series Young Ones when a person makes comments about the notice advising to not lean out of the window then loses his head!

 

And that's the thing, from these windows you would only be able observe the next vehicle, and perhaps a little more of the line side. At least with the tiny mirrors on the 308 you had some chance of being able to see down the side of the train, unless being able to view the top of the buffers, part of the gangway and maybe an exhaust pipe or two is more important than that on a DMU!

[Clive Mortimore]

And that's the thing, from these windows you would only be able observe the next vehicle, and perhaps a little more of the line side. At least with the tiny mirrors on the 308 you had some chance of being able to see down the side of the train, unless being able to view the top of the buffers, part of the gangway and maybe an exhaust pipe or two is more important than that on a DMU!

Hi Ian

 

I am sure on You Tube there is a DMU training video where the guard observes the signals through the rear windows of his van.

[Titan]

Mind you, I am kind of glad they are there, it was an interesting feature to me on the real thing and it is a nice extra to model!

[The Johnster]

As a guard at Canton during the 70s, where none of our dmus had end windows in the compartment, I can comment that the periscopes were never used because they were never cleaned.  We had windows on dmu and hauled stock to illuminate the desk and the pigeon holes, and the inward opening door had a droplight; you could see pretty much everything you needed to see without leaning out too far.

 

It is, as has been said, the guard's job to observe signals, 'keep a sharp lookout' generally, and be aware of his surroundings; we signed route knowledge cards for this reason.  And he has a brake setter (a valve admitting air to the brake system, applying the brakes) if he needs it, but this would be in the very unusual situation of a driver speeding, running past danger signals, or otherwise not responding to the needs of the train.  The guard in the Salisbury disaster was criticised for not applying the brake when it was obvious that the train was going too fast for the bend, but he would only have had seconds to react at that speed and one was reluctant to overrule the driver, who is in charge of running the train, in this way.

 

But it is also his job to inspect tickets, deal with passenger queries (some were very query indeed), keep his journal and notes, and so on, and he is not always in his compartment.  He is expected to observe what is going on around him from wherever he is in the train, though proper observation while you are selling a ticket or dealing with a lost child is not going to happen.

[Ronnie MB]

I’d need to check the details, but I think the guard’s role was an issue in the Paisley Gilmour Street inquiry. I seems to remember that the guard claimed he had tried to put the brake on when he realised the DMU had passed the platform signal at red but had missed the handle when he went for it.