Burton-on-Trent South - Adding Buildings

[Fishplate]

14 hours ago, ISW said:

how to attach it to the Upper Level baseboards in such a manner that it can 'easily' be removed (to give access to the tracks underneath) without too many tools.

 

There has been discussion on other topics of using small magnets. Might be worth considering?

[ISW]

8 hours ago, Fishplate said:

using small magnets.

The 9mm plywood for the Overbridge is roughly 900x600mm, so I thinking that 'large' magnets would be necessary?

 

My current thinking is to have the 'risers' attached fairly permanently to the Upper Level baseboard, as they will not block access to the tracks, and also because I'll need to clad some of them in a brickwork texture to mimic the walls. Then, the plywood can be attached to the risers. The simplest method would be screws, but only if they can be hidden under buildings / pavements and the like.

 

My problem/issue is that the Overbridge is in a corner of the layout, thus access is impossible on 2-sides (and restricted on the other 2!). Therefore, the Overbridge plywood has to come off 'vertically' and any attachments have to be accessed from the top.

 

All of this is conjecture, and plans may change ...

 

Ian

[5BarVT]

Hi Ian,

 

How ‘firmly’ will it need to be fixed in the vertical plane?  Will gravity be sufficient?

If you could screw down through the flat ply into the risers with old fashioned wood screws, you could then cut the tops off the screws and file the ends into a bit of a dome so that the ply lifts off but is constrained in the horizontals.  Then a card covering can hide the top of the screw hole.

Paul.

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

How ‘firmly’ will it need to be fixed in the vertical plane?  Will gravity be sufficient?

Paul,

 

I think you know my opinion on gravity; it's not to be trusted. When you don't need it, gravity makes things heavier than necessary. Conversely, when the pull of gravity would be useful, it fails to materialise. On a more serious note, I'm tempted to just use gravity, but concerned that the 'line' between the supports and the plywood (that'll each need separate textures) will be a little too obvious. In these circumstances, the clamping force of a screw/bolt would be beneficial.

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

If you could screw down through the flat ply into the risers with old fashioned wood screws, you could then cut the tops off the screws and file the ends into a bit of a dome so that the ply lifts off but is constrained in the horizontals.  Then a card covering can hide the top of the screw hole.

That's an interesting idea, and one I might 'try out' to see if gravity is going to play ball (and if the plywood is totally flat).

 

Ian

 

[5BarVT]

35 minutes ago, ISW said:

I think you know my opinion on gravity; it's not to be trusted.

The ‘problem’ I mentioned on my thread is an inconsistent gravity one!  Actually, it’s not gravity that’s inconsistent, it’s me.  What worked for a hinged 750x423x130 hinged board with 12 tortoise attached didn’t work for a roughly 400x300 (avge) x 50 with snap fastenings.  In retrospect it’s not surprising.

Paul.

[ISW]

Station Buildings 'Staged'

 

With both the Platform and Overbridge buildings 'substantially' complete, it was time to place them on the layout to do some measuring for the Overbridge plywood.

 

Here's a general overview of the two buildings:

 

Yes, that plywood is a little 'oversized' at present. Here's a slightly closer look:

 

Yes, that's Lego being used as temporary support for the Overbridge. After some fiddling with the Lego (Duplo actually) I found a combination that gave the required dimension. You can see the bits of masking tape all over the place, as I attempt (?) to transfer the important dimensions / measurements from the Overbridge to/from the Platform. The gap between the Overbridge plywood and the Platform Building has to be 19.2mm to accommodate 3-bays of canopy.

 

In theory (hmmm ...) the Overbridge (aka plywood) should be cut flush with the side of the Overbridge Building, and then angle back towards the road. This is fine on the southbound track (the other side), but on the northbound (this side) the tracks curve off to the left (well, they have to to avoid dropping off the edge of the baseboard!).  I 'could' solve the problem by moving the Overbridge (and building) southwards (towards the camera) but this would move the Platform building too far south and prevent me using the Bay Platform, as you can see in this next photo:

 

I'm therefore going to have to invoke Rule 1 and 'modify' the alignment of the Overbridge wall on the northbound side. 

 

As a final photo, here's a view looking north up the southbound tracks:

 

I really want to get this plywood cut and in place on the layout, but I'm being very wary/cautious as I'll only get one go at it, without buying another piece of ultra expensive lumber.

 

Ian

[ISW]

The Overbridge

 

On 17/03/2023 at 23:54, mallaig1983 said:

Is the overbridge ply far off Ian? Sounds like that probably needs to be your next move.

 

The plywood for the Overbridge has now been 'marked up', and is being dispatched for 'attention' in the garage:

 

This'll involve cutting along the marked lines (which always seems harder that it should be) and attaching some 'risers' to the underside to support the plywood. I'll be following my usual 'baseboard method' of simply screwing on the risers (length of plywood) at right-angles. Some of these 'risers' will also form the basis of the walls of the overbridge.

 

It'll all probably get a coat of grey primer (top and bottom) in due course.

 

Ian

[ISW]

The Overbridge

 

The Overbridge plywood is back from its 'attention' in the garage. The plan shape has been cut back considerably and risers have been installed on the underside to give the 'correct' height. In addition, a small 6½mm thick block of wood has been added to the far rear corner (well, it's the far rear corner when it's installed on the layout) that acts as a 'bump stop' against the baseboard support framework upstands. The Overbridge plywood also 'bumps' up against another baseboard support framework upstand, but with a zero thickness packer (aka, none was needed). It's these two 'bump stops' that help it be located correctly on the layout.

 

This is the top view:

 

And here is the underside view, with the image 'flipped' so that it is easier to correlate the top and bottom images:

 

Not the most 'inspiring' of photos I know, and will probably cause many seasoned woodworkers to shudder violently.

 

There will be some additional 'support' to the Overbridge plywood directly off the platform, but that'll have to wait until the underside of the plywood is 'fitted out' to represent the curved arches so I can get the location(s) right.

 

The other 'problem' I have is the openings in the 'risers'. The ones in the 24mm thick plywood are 'easy' as they are at right angles to the wood. The other openings for the bridge arches need to run vertically down the photos, at an acute angle through the 9mm plywood 'wings' at the side. Any ideas / tips on how to achieve this gratefully received.

 

Ian

[ISW]

The Overbridge Continues

 

After a break of almost 1-month since the previous post, 'some' progress has been made with the overbridge.

 

One element of the support woodwork was extended on the SB side in an attempt to 'flatten' the 9mm plywood. It didn't work though, and the NB side still has ~3mm gap to the Upper Level baseboard. Some 'weights' do easily close up the gap that gravity singularly fails to do. I think that a single screw will have to be installed from the underside of the baseboard to close the gap. It's probably no bad thing that there is at least one 'permanent' fastening.

 

The openings in the support walls (opposite the platform edges) has been drilled out through the ~25mm thick plywood. That wasn't easy. Then the whole Overbridge was treated to a lick of paint, grey of course.

 

With the Overbridge Building in place, I cut some 5mm plywood for the walls that butt up to the Overbridge Building. It was at this point that I discovered an error on my part cutting the 9mm plywood surface on the SB side. I'd correctly drawn a line for the wall, but neglected to take the wall thickness into account. Oops. So, I had to cut another bit of 5mm plywood to glue (and screw) onto the support woodwork to 'widen' the 9mm plywood.

 

With that 'fix' done, I could glue (using Tacky glue) the two walls into place either side of the Overbridge Building.

 

Here's a few photos to show how it looks now:

 

NB side:

 

SB side (a view that's only possible by reaching over the Upper Level baseboards):

 

And, finally, the forecourt side (again, only possible by reaching over the Upper Level baseboards):

 

Yes, it's taken me ages to get the 'woodwork' done, but I wanted to make sure it was all correct. However, things should go a little quicker now as I get to installing the textures onto the plain woodwork. That will be fun ...

 

Ian

 

[ISW]

Overbridge Building - Bridge Textures

 

Well, that took longer than I anticipated, mostly because I had to 'design as you go' instead of my usual 'follow the completed design' method. It would have been nice to have the whole of the bridge drawn up in Xara Designer Pro X10, but the inaccuracies of my woodwork would have meant a complete 'survey' of the dimensions; not really practical.

 

Time was also used up waiting for the glue to dry on textures, before I could apply the next 

'layer' (or even cut off the excess - cutting 'wet' paper doesn't go well ...). The recesses in the two walls were complicated to 'texture' in order to hide all the joins.

 

The bridge has now reached the point where all the bridge sub-structure and side walls are now 'textured' and, yes, I have textured the inside faces of the support walls:

 

View from The Gallery side of the station:

 

Northbound side:

 

Southbound side:

 

Main forecourt entrance (with the forecourt roof not installed):

 

As is typical for these things, I noticed the roof of The Gallery was not correctly fitted until after I'd taken the photos ...

 

The next task will, probably, be to sort out the road, pavements, and station forecourt area as this involves lifting the whole bridge assembly off the layout, again. I want to reach a point whereby the bridge can be placed 'permanently' on the layout as I'm risking damage each time I lift the bridge on/off the layout. However, this will also entail detailing the underside of the bridge where the trains pass through. More on that later as it's causing me a problem ...

 

Ian

 

[61656]

That’s really beginning to look the part! Are you running trains too, or just going slowly insane?

[ISW]

12 hours ago, 61656 said:

That’s really beginning to look the part! Are you running trains too, or just going slowly insane?

I don't think I've run any trains for about a year! I sort of got 'sidetracked' into this scenery malarkey and overlooked the railway. I even bought a (secondhand) Class 20 last year that hasn't been run on the layout yet (it came with a decoder that only accepted 2-digit IDs, which I had to replace).

 

I'm not complaining though, as I'm quite enjoying the challenges of making bespoke buildings out of recycled materials, especially when the completed article looks as it should. I suppose I should be thankful that I'm not 'distracted' by running trains ... (there are already enough distractions).

 

My railway modelling seems to go in 'phases' (or should that be fads?) until they are complete (ish). So far that's included:

1. Design and drawing up in Xara Designer Pro X10
2. Building the support timber framework
3. Building the baseboards
4. Track laying
5. Wiring
6. MegaPoints Controller boards and wiring
7. Ballasting

Although (2), (3), (4), (5) & (6) were repeated 3-times over in sequence for the Lower Level, Ramps, and Upper Level.

 

Ian

 

[61656]

It’s definitely a hobby where you need to keep some variety to prevent losing interest. And losing interest is ultimately frustrating because you really do want the end product. I still love running trains and probably every other session is to run trains. I have quite a few friends that pop round too, presumably they enjoy operating under pressure!

[ISW]

Overbridge Structure - Forecourt Textures

 

With the Overbridge 'structure' (aka plywood) removed, again, from the layout I have been able to tackle the forecourt and main road (named Station Street, rather predictably). My main 'tool', other than the usual Xara Designer Pro X10, was to make a 'template' of the entire forecourt area in paper. This was simply a matter of placing overlapping sheets of scrap A4 paper (I've rather a lot of that ...) onto the overbridge and taping it all together.

 

With the Overbridge building in place (including the forecourt canopy) I could easily mark the 'extents' of the building onto the paper. I then marked out the pavements, using the 22-Chain Plan-View drawing as a guide.

 

Each of the pavement elements were then cut from 'greyboard' I bought from a local craft shop. Yes, I know, shock & horror all around. I didn't use cereal packet! As I needed ~2mm thick carboard, and rather a lot of it, it was just easier to use greyboard.

 

Then it was back to Xara Designer Pro X10 to draw up the various textures I'd need for the road, pavement, and kerbstones. Some of these I downloaded from the Google SketchUp 'library' and others were from the Xara installation itself.

 

The road markings, for a zebra crossing and Bus Stop I drew up in Xara, using information from GOV.UK, of all places. They have the complete design specifications for all road signs and markings, so I've been able to 'draw up' correctly scaled and spaced road markings, which should help with realism.

 

Here's an overview of progress so far:

 

The 'rear' wall is now in place, complete with a 'representation' of the steel bridge parapet. All the pavements are 'built' and have kerb stones, with the exception of the rear long pavement. That'll be 'kerbed' later today.

 

The 'bits' of masking tape stuck to the plywood are my cheap-n-cheerful 'filler' over the screwheads. I filled the holes with 'Tacky Glue' and then placed masking tape over the blob of glue to spread it flat-n-even.

 

Cutting greyboard is not the easiest, especially when it comes to curves. However, I found that if you 'score' the right curve with a blade, it can easily be cut using an 'ultrasonic knife'. Such devices are a tad expensive (understatement ...), so I built my own using an old Philips SoniCare toothbrush we had in the house. Details can be found at:

It cuts through greyboard like a knife through butter cheese, but you have to hold the greyboard 'in the air' and use the 'middle' of the blade length. Hence, scoring the curve first as a guide.

 

Next will be printing out the road surface textures, on ~900mm long sheets of paper.

 

Ian

[ISW]

48 minutes ago, ISW said:

Next will be printing out the road surface textures, on ~900mm long sheets of paper.

 

Overbridge - Road Textures

 

Well, that didn't take as long as I expected. I was anticipating a few 'issues' to arise convincing the printer to 'obey' my requirements to print on long sheets of paper. But no, everything went as it should. The paper I'm using is 300gsm 'water colour' paper of size B3 (it was bought in Malaysia, hence the 'American' paper size). I taped 2-sheets end-on-end and then cut it to a width of 210mm, corresponding to the width of A4 paper, the maximum width my printer will accept. The resulting sheet is 916mm long, just long enough for my Overbridge structure of 900mm.

 

And here are the 2 sheets of road texture:

 

Hopefully, it'll look okay once glued down to the Overbridge ...

 

Ian

[ISW]

Overbridge - 'Topside' Substantial Completion

 

After 2-months of work/progress, the 'topside' of the Overbridge is now basically complete. There are a few 'missing' items that'll need to be added, including the zebra crossing belisha beacons and  a fence along the 'island' of pavement.

 

It seemed like a good opportunity to 'stage' a few vehicles on the roads and take some photos of the completed Overbridge, although without placing it on the layout (to provide easier photography!).

 

Plan View:

 

View from the Southbound Track side:

 

View from the Northbound Track side:

 

Street view looking along Station Street:

 

Inside the station forecourt:

 

The forecourt canopy can be easily removed as it only 'rests' on the station building and the columns are a simply 'push' fit into the column bases glued down to the road surface. The station building itself is removeable, being a 'push fit' between the Overbridge side walls, the pavement, and the wall upstand above the tracks.

 

I've bought some laser cut fencing (from TheBay) that I can 'adapt' to look the part, so that'll be the next task.

 

Then, finally, I can move onto the 'underside' of the Overbridge and create the columns and beams that (only in reality ...) support the Overbridge over the tracks.

 

Ian

 

[JN]

On 28/01/2023 at 18:57, ISW said:

Overbridge Building - Booking Hall Roof

 

Whilst this roof did take a long time to build, I didn't have any major obstacles / problems as it went together. For something of a change, the parts went together 'as planned' and the construction method(s) also worked first time. Practice makes perfect? Unlikely, as the other roofs for the Overbridge Building will probably prove ...

 

The Booking Hall roof has glazing along both sides and I was going to make this as I've always done; sandwich the glazing sheet between layers of cardboard. However, on examining photos of the building, it was apparent that the glazing is slight proud of the rooftiles. The glazing was therefore glued to some stiff paper (230gsm) to provide nice raised frames:

 

Top: as cut stiff paper, fresh off the Cricut cutter

Middle; Glazing with paper 'painted' black with a Sharpie, and glued[1] (glazing up)

Bottom; Glazing with paper 'painted' black with a Sharpie, and glued[1] (frames up)

[1] - I just used spray adhesive for this.

 

A cardboard (more cereal packet) was cut into a frame surrounding the roof opening to 'raise' the glazing as per the real thing:

 

Because I have a nice photo of the roof inside the Booking Hall, I simply had to incorporate something representative into the model roof. Those ribs are 3-layers of cereal packet cut on the Cricut, glued together with PVA, and painted with cheap (pound shop) acrylic paint:

 

The whole roof assembly is a 'tight fit' on the rest of the Overbridge Building model, but can be removed without too much difficulty. Here is the Overbridge Building with the Booking Hall roof in place (note the flat ceiling applied to the rest of the building in preparation for those to receive their roofs.

 

Main Entrance side:

 

Gallery Side (hmm, needs a Gallery to be built ...):

 

As a final photo, here is a nice view through the Gallery door ( I really will have to do something about the 'wavy' floor ...):

 

With the Booking Hall roof completed, that still leave 6 more to complete the main part of the Overbridge Building, 3 on either side of the Booking Hall. Those are going to get a little boring to build as 4 of them are effectively the same, as is the remaining pair. By the end of those roofs I should be getting good at it, just in time to discover I've no more to make ...

 

Ian

I do a little double take on this... Could also pass for the interior of a c.15-17th Century Manor House (sorry to get all GW on your LM too).

[JN]

On 15/03/2023 at 20:47, ISW said:

Overbridge Building - Forecourt Canopy Completed

 

Well, as ever, I'm using the term 'substantial completion' for a few reasons. Firstly, no modelling is ever 'complete', and until it actually installed on the bridge over the railway [1] it can't be properly embedded into the roads.

 

[1] - The plywood has been bought and it's sitting in the garage. That's a job for when it gets a bit warmer

 

The canopy has seen some 'tweaking' to get it to fit with the other roofs and, while I was at it, the 6 side roof sections have been amended such that they are now a 'snug' fit onto the walls. Previously I was relying on gravity (that most unreliable of forces) to keep them in roughly the right place.

 

After clearing the desk, I assembled the whole Overbridge Building for the first time.

 

View from over the Southbound Track:

 

View from over the Northbound Track:

 

I then added some 1:76 scale 'vehicles', including a Midland Red bus (of course), to give a sense of size. This is looking into the forecourt canopy from over the Northbound track:

 

And here's the same view from over the Southbound track (the bus has moved ...):

 

And finally, here's a slightly more close-up view of the completed forecourt canopy:

 

Looking back at my records, it's taken just under 2-weeks to complete the forecourt canopy, which feels like too long. I'm sure that if I did it again it'd take half that time, but then again, there would be no design drawing to do or preparing the drawings for the Cricut either. It therefore seems that the drawing side of things took about 1-week and the actual construction about 1-week as well, which I suppose is quite good.

 

Not sure what I'll be building next, but the Overbridge Building would sorely benefit from some chimneys ...

 

Ian

 

Impressive!

[ISW]

7 hours ago, JN said:

I do a little double take on this... Could also pass for the interior of a c.15-17th Century Manor House (sorry to get all GW on your LM too).

Surely not with those huge skylights?

 

However, I do take your point. I've see other roofs (eg: National Trust properties and some churches from the same period) that use a similar construction. Seems that roof 'designs' were much-of-a-muchness in the 19th Century. I'd guess the station designer simply followed 'common' practice for that time.

 

Ian

[JN]

On 13/06/2023 at 09:35, ISW said:

Surely not with those huge skylights?

 

However, I do take your point. I've see other roofs (eg: National Trust properties and some churches from the same period) that use a similar construction. Seems that roof 'designs' were much-of-a-muchness in the 19th Century. I'd guess the station designer simply followed 'common' practice for that time.

 

Ian

 

Fair point about the skylights, but I was meaning the high roof and Tudor style walls. The common architecture during the Victorian era was Neo-Gothic (Palace of Westminster, Rochdale Town Hall) and was about bringing back the Gothic architecture of the Middle Ages (Westminster Abbey and York Minster as well as Canterbury, Ely Lincoln Cathedrals). Originally the term Gothic was used as an insult as Romanesque gave way to Gothic. I interpret Gothic architecture as pointing to something higher.

[ISW]

Meanwhile back at the Overbridge ...

 

Yes, it's been a while since I posted about the layout. Nothing has happened in the intervening time except for me 'correcting' a baseboard connection on the Upper Level. I found that one side of the connection was ~9mm too low. Me thinks I must have mis-measured something to the top/bottom of a baseboard, as the Upper Level baseboards are 9mm thick! Suspicious ...

 

Anyway that baseboard connection was immediately adjacent to the Overbridge building, which I was already having problems getting 'level' last time. Note the rather obvious 'gap' on the near left-hand side:

 

However, despite lifting the baseboard 9mm in this area, the gap wouldn't go away.

 

It was therefore onto Plan B; getting out the electric planer. With the Overbridge turned upside-down (on blocks to avoid damaging the walls) I attacked the lower edge of the support walls with the planer, with it set on 0.25mm (lowest setting). I was being careful not to remove too much material. After about 4 attempts, toing and froing the Overbridge onto and off the layout in between, I had the Overbridge correctly sat on the baseboard:

 

You can see the gap has disappeared on this close up. I took off about 4mm tapering to zero:

 

With that little 'issue' resolved I can finally return to the problem (from last May!) of installing the support columns to the Overbridge between the tracks.

 

Ian

[ISW]

Drained

 

Although I've not done much anything to the layout, this hasn't stopped me going to various 'swap meets' nearby. Here's something I picked up at a Model Bus fair in Worksop recently:

 

While I'm working on the Overbridge, I'll get some of them installed.

 

=====================================

 

While at the Model Bus fair I made a lot of enquiries about any models of East Staffordshire District Council (ESDC) buses that were prevalent in Burton during the later 1970s. No one has made a suitable model. I enquired about Daimler CVG6 with Massey bodywork, that were used by Burton Corporation (to predecessors to ESDC) and which I used to get to school. No one has made a suitable model. No wonder I haven't seen/found said models over the last 6-years of looking!

 

Ian

[5BarVT]

20 hours ago, ISW said:

Drained

 

Shame on you - those are the longitudinal sort that trap cyclists wheels and throw them over the handlebars.

 

More to the point, by the 70s they were being replaced by some councils, so check photos to see if you are being accurate or just need a suitable story if anyone notices.

 

Paul.

[ISW]

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Shame on you - those are the longitudinal sort

Paul,

 

But they were cheap ...

 

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

More to the point, by the 70s they were being replaced by some councils, so check photos to see if you are being accurate

 

I did plan to check photos, as the positions of 'any' drainage (and there may not be any) is sure to be affected by the fact that the whole overbridge is elevated. There is not that much overburden / ground in which to place said items and associated pipework.

 

As I'm modelling the 'mid-70s', I can at least argue that replacement hadn't happened yet ...

 

Ian

 

[ISW]

Overbridge Support# Columns

 

# Except that they don't. They are only 'representations' to give the desired effect

 

Having successfully made the overbridge 'structure' sit correctly onto the baseboard, I set about the necessary survey, measurement, and setting-out works to establish the correct positions of the support columns to the overbridge.

 

With the overbridge 'out of the way', access to the baseboard and platform is easy, if a bit of a stretch. Actually, I just climb onto the baseboards! Thankfully, my baseboard support framework is substantial enough to take my weight.

 

Here you can see the positions marked out and drilled. There are 4 rows of 4 columns:

 

Measurements had to take into account the relationship to the 'openings' in the walls of the overbridge, offset from the platform edge, and the 'clearance envelope' of trains. I found that my largest 'end throw' is my Class 45s, but 'centre throw' I took from some Mk2d coaches.

 

The holes were drilled out to 5.5mm (in steps of 2mm, 4mm, 5mm, then 5.5mm) through the baseboard (between the tracks) and through the platform (those on the platform). This gives me 9mm and 18mm respectively to 'embed' the column and glue into position.

 

Here's the holes a bit clearer, with some 5.5mm diameter styrene tubing in position at one of the columns:

 

Hopefully, these columns will create the 'illusion' of the real thing.

 

Ian