Lorry/cart weighbridge - does it matter much where it goes?

[ejstubbs]

Per the title, does it make much odds where, in a goods yard, the weighbridge for goods being brought by lorry or orson cart is located?  Obviously somewhere not too horribly inconvenient, but would anywhere with reasonably easy vehicular access be OK - it doesn't have to be at the yard gate or anything like that?  I'm thinking about the inter-war period, if that makes any odds.

 

I must admit I don't really 'get' how freight was charged in those days.  Did everything have to be weighed, from the smallest crate to the full wagon load?  And what about loose bulk goods like stone, coal, iron ore etc?  Or liquids going in a tanker wagon?  Presumably livestock was charged in a different way again.  Is there a useful book that outlines how all the non-passenger business was handled?

 

My Mum used to tell us how her father used to send her rabbits (deceased, for eating) by train during the war (partly because they weren't on the ration, I imagine).  She said that they used to arrive fur and all, with the hind legs tied together (which, if nothing else, would have made them easy to hang on a hook somewhere) and with an old, clean tin can fastened around the head (presumably to collect any 'leakage').  I assume that delivery within the day could pretty much be relied upon, otherwise things might have got a bit yucky.

[peter220950]

Not an expert on such matters, but whenever I have seen them on yards or in factories they are at the entrance, that way lorries can be weighed in and out without too much diversion, to establish the amount of material dropped or picked up.

 

It also serves as a place for the yardman/security to keep an eye on movement in and out, while being the weighbridge operator as well.

 

Similar placement seems to be used where there's a rail weighbridge on exchange sidings.

 

 

Peter

[F-UnitMad]

Agree with Peter above. Weighbridges are almost always at the entrance to premises. Not only convenient for weighing & checking vehicles in and out, but for security & prevention of theft, too. A weighbridge at the gates means there's no chance to slip more "unaccounted for" goods onto a wagon after it's weighed but before it leaves site.

[Fat Controller]

There were also Public Weighbridges, built at the side of the road in some places; these were quite common in South Wales. They'd also sometimes be seen at the sites of large markets.

[eastglosmog]

On the East Gloucestershire line they seem to have been located between the station building and the Goods shed, on the far side of the yard from those two buildings, often near the boundary fence.  So not by the station entrance but at the start of the yard area.  Other railways may have had different layouts, so I would suggest looking up a few typical yards in your area on Old Maps  - the weighbridge is often marked on the 1/2500 scale plans.

[eastglosmog]

Further to how it was measured (and presumably charged) going out, medium and large quarries and collieries had weighbridges (often, but not always, one for empty inbound and one for full outbound) to weigh the railway wagons before and after loading.   Smaller ones may have relied on an average density for the commodity and fullness of the truck - I have seen plans of many small collieries without any sign of a rail weighbridge.

[Ian Kirk]

Not sure if it was typical but at St.Monans on the Fife Coast Line the weighbridge was just inside the gate between the public road and the goods yard area. There was a small brick building just behind it which presumably held the machine itself and provided an office for the goods porter. I know this because long after the line was closed my little factory (for producing plastic kits) was built in the former station site. If I walked to work in the Morning I came in the former goods yard gate and passed the site of these (still quite clear in the 80s) on my way to the factory.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[ejstubbs]

I would suggest looking up a few typical yards in your area on Old Maps  - the weighbridge is often marked on the 1/2500 scale plans.

 

As it happens, I spent my tea break yesterday afternoon doing a bit of research, starting off with Google image search and then branching off to the disused stations web site, Old Maps and NLS Maps.  It seems that the weighbridge would generally have been located more or less adjacent to the entrance to the goods yard - sometimes not particularly close but at least not too far away from the obvious way in and out of the yard.  Even where the weighbridge was next to the gate, I haven't found an example where it had to be traversed in order to enter or leave the yard.  Perhaps this was because the mechanism had to be compliant with Weights & Measures legislation, and there was risk of it going out of adjustment if it was being driven over constantly without being actually used (although I suppose it might have been possible to lock the mechanism to protect it when it wasn't being used).  Also, the steel weighing deck might not have been an ideal surface for vehicles to have to traverse on a regular basis for no good reason.

 

I suppose at a busy yard there might have been some benefit in having the weighbridge some way inside the gate, so that vehicles didn't have to queue out on to the main road.

 

Gosford Green goods station is a good photographic example, with the weighbridge a short way inside the entrance and off to the side:

 

 

Some screenshots of old maps illustrate the variation that can be found (although I realise one does have to be careful with maps - they may not show all the 'stuff' that defined exactly where the road vehicles went within the yard).

 

At Quainton Road the weighbridge was inside the goods yard entrance, to one side - much as at Gosford Green:

 

 

At Ingleby it was a bit closer to the entrance, but again to one side leaving free access if required:

 

 

At Saffron Walden it was a short way inside the entrance, next to one of the sidings:

 

 

At Uppermill it was next to the goods shed, not particularly close to the entrance to the yard but still more or less 'on the way' in and out (though if the road vehicle had been loaded from a wagon on the leftmost siding then it would have had to loop around to visit the weighbridge on the way in and out):

 

 

At Gilmerton it seems to have been tucked away off to one side in the yard, albeit still not particularly inconveniently located for traffic coming and going:

 

 

I reckon that there is a bit of scope for modeller's licence, so long as it's not away in a distant corner of the yard somewhere that would be thoroughly awkward to get vehicles to and from.

[keefer]

As you mentioned, I think the platform would possibly be locked when not being used, or at least have signs up stating it mustn't be driven over.

The eqpt was officially calibrated and would be quickly damaged by vehicles going over it at normal speed - anything being weighed would be guided on slowly under strict supervision.

[Trog]

You would want traffic not being weighed to be able to drive round the weighbridge, as otherwise such traffic would be wearing the mechanism for no benefit. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I don't really 'get' how freight was charged in those days.  Did everything have to be weighed, from the smallest crate to the full wagon load?  And what about loose bulk goods like stone, coal, iron ore etc?  Or liquids going in a tanker wagon?  Presumably livestock was charged in a different way again.  Is there a useful book that outlines how all the non-passenger business was handled?...

 Not seen such a thing. The railway companies maintained 'rate' books or schedules which described in great detail the many and varied rates or tariffs for each class of freight per mile, and how assessed, by piece, weight, volume etc. Loose mineral cheapest to move, high added value manufactures most expensive. (I believe the railways self insured for losses, since they operated on a sufficiently large scale that a margin for compensation could be calculated and integrated into the rate.)

 

The weighbridge was principally for the loose mineral trade, dominated until quite recently by coal.

[The Johnster]

There were also Public Weighbridges, built at the side of the road in some places; these were quite common in South Wales. They'd also sometimes be seen at the sites of large markets.

 

Was never aware that this was particularly a South Wales thing, and just assumed without thinking much about it that it was the same everywhere; wonder if it's anything to do with our history of toll roads and Rebecca Riots!  One still exists on North Road in Cardiff, converted now to a cafe but still working in my lifetime with a big Pooley scale and the dial visible through the window.  It is at the junction of Llys Tal y Bont Road.  This building looks to be a 1930s sort of thing, a century later than the Rebeccas.

[Fat Controller]

Was never aware that this was particularly a South Wales thing, and just assumed without thinking much about it that it was the same everywhere; wonder if it's anything to do with our history of toll roads and Rebecca Riots!  One still exists on North Road in Cardiff, converted now to a cafe but still working in my lifetime with a big Pooley scale and the dial visible through the window.  It is at the junction of Llys Tal y Bont Road.  This building looks to be a 1930s sort of thing, a century later than the Rebeccas.

It probably isn't just a South Walian thing, it's just I remember them from childhood days down there. 

[bluesparkdave]

My father worked on both road and rail weighbridges for the National Coal Board. The weighbridges had a lever which could be set to "In Gear" during weighing operation or "Out of Gear" when not in use. I remember him telling me that even when "Out of Gear" the maximum speed over the weighbridge was 5 mph.

[peanuts]

from experiance as a hgv driver tho only on current situations weigh bridges are usualy at the entrance and exit to most yards with a central mounted control office one side is the weighbridge the other just a normal entrance for vehicles that do not need to be weighed priority is given to vehicles entering so as not to have vehicles quing on the highway . vehicles entering and leaving use the same weighbridge as if different bridges are used calibration between the two would be needed . as an exception to this where a weighbridge is provided in a large yard used by multiple companys the weighbridge may be placed to one side of the yard so as not to inconvenience those who don't need to use it . as i say this is from current practice 

 ps thanks for the diagramme of uppermill yard as that was the bottom of my garden and my playground in my youth untill developed 

[Fat Controller]

My father worked on both road and rail weighbridges for the National Coal Board. The weighbridges had a lever which could be set to "In Gear" during weighing operation or "Out of Gear" when not in use. I remember him telling me that even when "Out of Gear" the maximum speed over the weighbridge was 5 mph.

Dad's firm did the civils and building work for one at Carmarthen Bay power station, back in the early 1960s. My recollection is that there was some sort of pin which engaged on the side frame of the platform until the vehicle to be weighed was stationary, when the operator would (remotely) remove it.

[Booking Hall]

This gives useful background on general railway goods operations. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/8-yards/008-index.htm

[The Johnster]

It probably isn't just a South Walian thing, it's just I remember them from childhood days down there. 

 

Me. too!

 

Railway ones seemed to be a particular feature of the coal trade, understandably as the railway charged by the tonnage and it was important that the amount reaching the dealer/customer/port/coking ovens/whatever matched that leaving the colliery as closely as possible.  There was of course always the 'angel's share', blown off in the form of dust if the coal was allowed to dry out, but books had to balance and pilferage kept to a minimum.  Every lump counted, and was counted!

 

It seems reasonable to assume that the same applied in other coalfields, but the way coal was traded, and the way in which that trade was regulated and accounted, may have been quite different in other parts of the country.  One of Cardiff's historic buildings is the Coal Exchange, where the first ever million pound cheque was presented, and honoured; I have no idea if similar arrangements existed in Yorkshire, or the West Midlands, or Kent, and so on.

Edited May 31, 2018 by The Johnster

[F-UnitMad]

 One of Cardiff's historic buildings is the Coal Exchange, where the first ever million pound cheque was presented, and honoured; ...

What did you spend it on?

 

Coat, hat, gone already....

[The Johnster]

What did you spend it on?

 

Coat, hat, gone already....

 

I'm putting it towards the eventual purchase of a Bachmann 94xx one day!