Bilton Junction

[Jon4470]

Nearly a month since the last update!

 

Complete loss of model making enthusiasm over the last few weeks I’m sorry to say. Work is very intense at the moment and will continue that way for a couple more months. My Mother in Law is also in hospital ( and has been for 2 months) so there have been visits every evening to see her. This combination has squeezed my time and energy......however....

 

 

 

 

 

I found a little bit of time this week to add transfers, buffer heads and touch up some paint on the wheels and rods. Number 276 was a Starbeck based loco in my time frame.

 

I’m going to pack this away now - declared as finished. (Even though it needs weathering, glazing, couplings, crew, lamps, coal in the bunker..........)

 

Jon

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jon4470

[Jon4470]

I have been able to do quite a bit of armchair modelling recently!

 

I’ve read a number of books by David Jenkinson. One about railcars, another about making carriages from Plastikard and the one that started me off volume 1 of British Carriages of 20 th century. I’ve enjoyed all of these and have started to read Vol 2 of British Carriages. 

 

Now I’m resisting the temptation to rush out and buy plastic sheet and start scratchbuilding coaches! I keep telling myself that I must pace things...and clear what is already started!

[AdeMoore]

I’m with you there Jon! Resisting all temptation to start knocking up baseboards and building a curved viaduct!

But I currently dabble with Airfix kits in lunch at work to keep some enthusiasm going for the No. 5 scratch build I’m wrestling with! Over a year in now, though not a massive amount of time on it. This time of year the outdoors beckons so modelling time is zero.

276 looks very nice.

Also wish MIL well and a more speedy recovery.

 Cheers 

[Jon4470]

Still no actual model making going on.

 

However my wife and I went for a walk around Ribblehead viaduct today. We wondered why it was busy...and why everyone was standing and watching. Then we heard the reason:

 

 

 

Followed a a little while later by:

 

 

You can tell how soon after because we had only walked the length of the viaduct.

 

Had to take the pics on my phone - so not great zoom. The loco was a 4-6-0, double chimney, BR black late crest, ex LMS design......so must be a Black 5?

 

Jon

 

[Jon4470]

I took another look at the photos from this afternoon. The loco has splashers so can’t br a Black 5. Most likely it is a Jubilee “Bahamas”. Which means it was green! And I thought I saw a black loco.....

[Jon4470]

Summer 2019 has been somewhat of a challenge (Some good - some not good)

I suppose that is life - but it did remove all enthusiasm for modelling.

 

However in the last few days I have started a little bit of modelling.

 

As ever I want to clear the modelling bench! So that means detailing and painting the Raven A2. As a gentle start I took the wheels off and painted them green....with black rims. The black seems a bit gloopy so I may have to clean that up and restart. Then I will have to put the white lining on.......that should be “fun”. Will look good though,  if I get it right.

 

 

 

 

 

Then, a bit more energised I fired up the soldering iron for the first time in months. I fitted the bearings for the new gearbox

 

 

 

That was enough for an evening! (I’ll explain in the next post)

 

Jon

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jon4470

[Jon4470]

Just took a break to watch the Great Model Railway Challenge. I enjoy watching it......it’s a bit of fun TV.

 

Anyway back to the loco.

 

As bought the model is fitted with an X04 motor. This was very noisy and, more importantly for me, it is visible:

 

 

 

So my plan is to replace the motor with a Mashima and a gearbox from High Level Kits. The benefit should be that I can fit a motor vertically in the firebox......a bit like this:

 

 

 

 

I would then be able to fill in the lower part of the boiler - which had been cut out to fit the X04.

 

Unfortunately the spacer that holds the pivot point for the real wheel truck is in the way.....

 

 

 

 

Cue words such as “bother”............

 

I think I will have to get the “really big” soldering iron out to remove the spacer and the either use a new, thinner one or, perhaps, replace the current one further back and maybe out of the way of the gearbox.

 

Time to ponder for a night or two......

 

Jon

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jon4470

[jessy1692]

Hope all is well Jon, nice to see an update on the Raven. I know the feeling of trying to clear the workbench, i never seem to manage it though.

All the best

James

[Jon4470]

Having pondered a while, I then decided to dive in and get on with things. I used the 80 watt iron for the first time. After a bit of a fight, the spacer came out. 

 

I trial fitted a motor to the gearbox, attached to the axle and hey presto! It didn’t fit!

 

First I had to cut down the motor spindle ( sort of knew i’d Have to do that) ...... and then I could see that the gearbox was not horizontal.

Out came the saw, snips and big files to cut a rebate in the ( battleship grade) frames. Finally I achieved the result that I wanted - no visible motor and motor not touching the top of the firebox. 

 

View from underneath (with implements of torture visible):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Side on - nearly vertical now because of the rebate hacked into the frames

 

 

 

With body on- daylight under the boiler - motor in the firebox.

 

 

 

I’ll tidy up the rebate and maybe get the motor to sit a bit more vertically. After that, time to wire it up and check that there are no shorts in the firebox.

 

After that .......how to fit brakes to those frames???

 

Jon

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jon4470

[AdeMoore]

Looking like a great result there Jon, good work.

 Cheers 

[Jon4470]

I’ve progressed a bit over the week!

 

Now this progression was not in a straight line......there were some daft moments along the way.

 

First up was when I completed the gearbox - no problems with that I thought, built a few of these, what can go wrong?.......answer - use runny super glue to hold the cross shafts in place! The whole gearbox was locked solid. I tried wiping on, very carefully, some nail polish remover. Nothing budged and I was worried that the fluid would melt the gears. Time to give up for the evening.

 

Next night I was a lot more bold...I put the whole gearbox in a bath of polish remover and, after about 20 mins, it all came undone. No damage to the gear wheels either! Result!

 

The gearbox was then re-assembled - using super glue gel this time. Works a treat now.

 

After that episode I sorted out where the electric feeds should go and then set to adding brakes, water feed pipe and levers around the cylinders:

 

 

 

The pipe at the rear is just visible in some photos....I think this is the water feed from the tender

 

 

 

 

There are levers under the cylinders on North Eastern locos- I added a representation from 0.45 mm wire ( not altogether happy with this at the moment)

 

 

 

Finally brakes have been attached to wire supports.....I couldn’t face trying to drill 6 accurate holes in the frames so the supports are soldered to the top or bottom of the frames and bent up behind the brake blocks.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully these will be stable enough and the brakes won’ t moves out and touch the wheels.

 

I have to admit that soldering to these frames is frustrating- they are huge heat sinks and the 80 watt iron only just seems to cope....roll on the time that I’m working on the thinner material on the body.

 

Finally, one more “learning experience “. I had fitted a new spacer and securing nut for the rear truck. Shame I put it where the gearbox needs to be......

 

Jon

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jon4470

[Jon4470]

As a slight detour from building things, I have been trying to organise my information a bit more. I tend to have bits of notes jotted down everywhere. Plus I like collecting books..... the result is I quite often know that I have some information but just can’t find it.

 

For quite a while now I have been jotting things down in a spreadsheet. More recently I have been using One Note to capture scribbles and photos.

 

Most of the focus has been on timetables, Locomotives and coach formations.

 

Last week I began to wonder about signals- I have a signal and track diagram ( courtesy of Neil Mackay of NERA). So I know what type of signal- but lower or upper quadrant, wooden or lattice, how tall etc?

 

So I have just been taking  photos of photos from my books to add to One Note.

Of course not all the signals are in the photos but at least some were. So that is a start.

 

This then re-ignited other questions about the buildings around Bilton....e.g. were the cottages semi detached?,Also how were the the coal drops operated - I can see big wheels but no rope or chain, how did they shunt the mainline sidings - gravity, horse, rope and capstan? 

 

So so many questions.......

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

[AdeMoore]

Hi Jon interesting thoughts, I have used one note in the past but not to a system but I should do the same really!

But a photo library I find invaluable, the best provided by Google photos as it’s searchable without even putting labels. You can reverse trace a source of a photo all manner of stuff.

My current slow project Barnstaple Quay I shared https://photos.app.goo.gl/s9qkHsAxGQyeWwk7A

I’m considering a small diversion a micro layout or boxfile! Inspiration here https://photos.app.goo.gl/EozUacVLTH9fYZbLA

So power to your elbow for getting organised! How about you web page bookmarks are they included? Even if you do those.

Cant help with the other questions but someone else will do no doubt.

 Cheers 

Ade

edit missed words.

Edited October 1, 2019 by AdeMoore

[jessy1692]

2 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

As a slight detour from building things, I have been trying to organise my information a bit more. I tend to have bits of notes jotted down everywhere. Plus I like collecting books..... the result is I quite often know that I have some information but just can’t find it.

 

For quite a while now I have been jotting things down in a spreadsheet. More recently I have been using One Note to capture scribbles and photos.

 

Most of the focus has been on timetables, Locomotives and coach formations.

 

Last week I began to wonder about signals- I have a signal and track diagram ( courtesy of Neil Mackay of NERA). So I know what type of signal- but lower or upper quadrant, wooden or lattice, how tall etc?

 

So I have just been taking  photos of photos from my books to add to One Note.

Of course not all the signals are in the photos but at least some were. So that is a start.

 

This then re-ignited other questions about the buildings around Bilton....e.g. were the cottages semi detached?,Also how were the the coal drops operated - I can see big wheels but no rope or chain, how did they shunt the mainline sidings - gravity, horse, rope and capstan? 

 

So so many questions.......

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

 

Evening Jon, good questions, id love to have seen the coal drops shunted, all i have read is that it was a mixture of gravity and also the narrow gauge being able to shift the standard gauge around also, the big wheels inset into the wall at the base of the chutes must have had a rope/capstan system somehow.

 

As for signals, it looks like the usual NER practice of providing signals for just about every movement, i think they may have been slotted post. Also the ones at by the crossing guarding the line coming down from Harrogate look to have been very tall. Will have a look through some books next time im at my Dads.

 

Which cottages do you mean Jon? If its the ones by the Gardners Arms down Bilton Lane ill take some pics for you, although aparantly at least one of the row was destroyed in WW2 by a stray german bomber. The other building by the crossing seems to have been a detached or maybe semi detached house.

 

If you need any up to date pics of the site for reference, im more than happy to have a wander down, if it ever stops raining!

Cheers

James

[Jon4470]

7 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Hi Jon interesting thoughts, I have used one note in the past but not to a system but I should do the same really!

But a photo library I find invaluable, the best provided by Google photos as it’s searchable without even putting labels. You can reverse trace a source of a photo all manner of stuff.

My current slow project Barnstaple Quay I shared https://photos.app.goo.gl/s9qkHsAxGQyeWwk7A

I’m considering a small diversion a micro layout or boxfile! Inspiration here https://photos.app.goo.gl/EozUacVLTH9fYZbLA

So power to your elbow for getting organised! How about you web page bookmarks are they included? Even if you do those.

Cant help with the other questions but someone else will do no doubt.

 Cheers 

Ade

edit missed words.

 

Hi Ade

I like the photo collections - Helps that I have a soft spot for the Southern!

 

My wife swears by Pinterest for photo collections......but i’ve Not caught that particular bug. I think that the most intuitive way to collect information is still in a hard copy scrapbook - at least for me. Problem is that it requires more discipline and time than I have. 

 

I’m familiar with Excel...so that is easy to use for ideas and I have a Rocketbook which means I can send handwritten notes to One Note easily. Photos are also quite easy to copy in and caption. Might take a look at Google photos though.

 

You’re right about bookmarks.......must remember to save them somewhere!

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

7 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Evening Jon, good questions, id love to have seen the coal drops shunted, all i have read is that it was a mixture of gravity and also the narrow gauge being able to shift the standard gauge around also, the big wheels inset into the wall at the base of the chutes must have had a rope/capstan system somehow.

 

As for signals, it looks like the usual NER practice of providing signals for just about every movement, i think they may have been slotted post. Also the ones at by the crossing guarding the line coming down from Harrogate look to have been very tall. Will have a look through some books next time im at my Dads.

 

Which cottages do you mean Jon? If its the ones by the Gardners Arms down Bilton Lane ill take some pics for you, although aparantly at least one of the row was destroyed in WW2 by a stray german bomber. The other building by the crossing seems to have been a detached or maybe semi detached house.

 

If you need any up to date pics of the site for reference, im more than happy to have a wander down, if it ever stops raining!

Cheers

James

 

Hi James

 

Thanks for the information and offer.

 

I’ll post more this evening about signals and shunting when I have more time. The question about the cottages ( always plural so I guess a semi) came about because this is the best photo I saw last night...doors obscured.

 

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

Ill see what i can dig up Jon, i know i have a pic of a bus at the junction of woodfield road and bilton lane which may give a side view of the house by the crossing. Should be up at my Dads tomorrow where iv left my laptop... leeds match tonight and rhtt spotting!

[Jon4470]

Before discussing any signals, shunting etc I thought i’d Show the layout as in 1938

 

Hope this shows clearly enough 

[Jon4470]

So, to explain the diagram.

North is to the top of the diagram and heads to Ripon. Heading North is the down direction.

 

The layout is as at 1913 and I believe that this remained the same until changes were made in 1942. These changes added loops further to the North, an additional crossover just north of the level crossing and a small siding just south of the level crossing.

 

I have only numbered the two crossovers for clarity, but have numbered all the signals. 

The narrow gauge is shown “laddered” and the standard gauge is solid lines. The standard gauge lines are, from left to right, the depot siding, number one siding, down main, up main.

 

The main line is on a gentle falling gradient to the North - 1 in 200(ish)

[Jon4470]

I know of a shunting manoeuvre that was used in the 1950s. This information was from an interview with a signalman and I got the details from Neil MacKay.

 

I imagine that this set of moves could well be long standing and they are quite interesting. So I’ll try to describe them here.....applied to the 1938 track layout.

 

The full coal wagons and empty tar tanks would be sent from Starbeck. They would travel along the Down main and stop just before points 31 ( toward the top of the diagram) The train would be made up in the order: locomotive, tar tanks, coal, brake van. The train was now divided and the loco plus tanks drew forward past points 31. It the reversed back across points 31 onto the up main and then continued past points 15. ( bottom of diagram). This portion then crossed to the down main using points 15. It then drew up behind the brake van and was coupled up. The whole train was now in the order ( from the north) coal, brake, loco, tank. The train now drew forward and the reversed over points 31 onto the up main. It carried on down the level crossing. The trailing points in front of the signal box were changed and then the train could cross over into number 1 siding. The coal wagons could be deposited in either number 1 or the depot siding using the scissors crossover that joined the sidings. The tar tanks could be reversed into the tar dock.

 

I’ve read that the level crossing was usually kept open for rail traffic and only opened as required for the road...which makes this operation easier.

 

Hopefully I’ve explained the moves correctly. 

 

It it all works fine ( and explains some of the signals) .....but I don’t know how they retrieved any empties!

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

Evening Jon, iv scoured my books and photos and cannot find any more info on the house near the crossing, frustratingly i cannot find the pic im thinking of that may show the side of the house.

If i see anything ill ping it over.

Cheers

James

[Jon4470]

Hello  James

 

Never mind and thanks for trying. Much appreciated.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

I’ve been at home for the last week or so. Main reason was to look after my wife who has just had an operation. Thankfully she is recovering quickly and has not suffered too much discomfort.

 

One day I put the car in for a service. While it was being attended to I started to calculate some dimensions for the layout.

 

 

 

so if if I did things correctly......a 1 in 258 gradient equals a 5 cm drop over 12 ft of boards! That involved metric and imperial ( including chains).....it could easily be wrong!

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

After that I started to sketch out the levels for the main line and transfer sidings:

 

 

 

Now my task is to turn these scribblings and key dimensions into drawings for the track base and track supports. I have two base boards patiently waiting for some track ( oh ..I also have some track waiting for base boards!). 

 

I think I will be using 9mm ply for the supports and 6mm for the track base.

 

One final dimension that I will need to work out is the height of the retaining wall from the narrow gauge yard. I think that the yard will be the lowest point of the layout....therefore all vertical dimensions will use that level as the base point.

 

While I had a bit of spare time I also cleared some space in the outhouse...at least I can walk in now! Next stage will be to clear the bench in there....then the boards can go on top. 

 

Hopefully inching towards creating a layout.

 

Jon

 

 

[Jon4470]

After that I started 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Jon4470
Duplicate post