L2's are great! Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Reflection of an L2 D30 tower 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted February 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2020 Beautiful. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 22:35, 7APT7 said: Hi Paul Thanks for that mate, so how long is the average length of cables per run, about 1000m/3300ft or 500m/1640ft...? Regards Jamie It is possible I've not come across any info on the maximum span lengths are. But this would depend on tower design and loading rating i.e. the downward force exerted by the weight of the metal wire conductors and the vertical or horizontal insulator strings. I think the most I have seen is 8 L2 D2 towers between D10/30/60 deviation towers. L2s generally carry twin conductors. L6s were originally designed to carry a bundle of four or quad conductors though many of these L6 lines have now been refurbished to take twin or triple conductors. L2 and their replacement design L8s can still only take twin conductors. Newer L12 with the upswept cross arms van I believe take 2,3 or 4 conductors. The different types of conductors all have different names and codes from memory but info not to hand - Pylon King might know. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 03/02/2020 at 19:16, 7APT7 said: Hi Pylon King Looking very SMART... it's those type of items that makes a Layout look more realistic for me... Yes, Paul's old MRC Club and the Show at Hazel Grove MRC last year 27/28 October 2019, there was a stand that made some exceptional looking Tower / Gas Tanks. I guess Paul, you may know the guy by name or Company I'm referring to, in N, 00 & 0-Gauges... those were the only Two Photo's I have so can't even tell you who does them, but he was there the previous year to... Regards Jamie I believe you mean Made in Manchester models - they were at Stafford last weekend with their stand. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 22:55, 7APT7 said: Hi Paul That the very first thing you taught me and became interested ever since, I know that now, see I did listen lol TYPE 1 You get the Pylons that Start of a New Cable as in Photo below... and you see the Looping (Is there a Technical word for that connecting One Cable to Another Cable) by looping, I'm referring to the dangling cables that come off One Side of the Pylon and Loop under and Across to the Other side of the Pylon to connect to the next New Length of Cable. {where the Insulator are Horizontal} [Sorry I only have a close up of what I uploaded earlier,... in thread above] (I'll have to get that sorted out lol) Then You get TYPE 2 Then you have the Pylons where the {where the Insulator are Vertical} as seen in the Photo Below That I do understand is pretty straight forward every time I look at a Pylon now. Regards Jamie Type One is one of the deviation type towers D10, D30, D60 or D90 whereas Type Two is a suspension tower generally known as D2 in most of the tower designs. There might be a word or phrase for the loop between the two nearly horizontal insulator strings but if there is one its escaped me right now.. old age lol Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 23:10, 7APT7 said: I understand that Trawfynydd is just South of Porthmadog and a Lake with huge Concrete structure of the old Nuclear Power Station which the decommissioning of the nuclear power station back in 1991 in North Wales at Trawfynydd, So in the photos I have posted above from the start of the thread tonight of the long string of Pylons taken near to where I live, those go off towards Porthmadog and possible originally came from Trawfynydd Nuclear plant then... Regards Jamie Yep this L6 line starts at Pentir to east of Bangor up on hill and runs via Porthmadog where it is underground cabled between Tremadog and Miniffordd both ends visible from A487 iirc. This was done to avoid a line of towers running across the Glaslyn estuary landscape. Then it runs across the estuary on the Penryhn-dd side and heads up towards Traws where it terminates. From there it is an L2 line all the way to Deeside at Connah's Quay. Feeding into Traws is an L3 line coming in from Ffestiniog hydro electric power station. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 23:37, 7APT7 said: Would not these Pylon Strings be from 'Electric Mountain' in Llanberis, with the Huge Hollow Space within the Mountain and 20 miles of road ways to enable access to all levels of the Four or Six Turbines and water pipes etc from the Top Lake to the Bottom Lake in Llanberis via the Turbines. [to create the 1.21 Giga Watts of Electricity we need to power the Flux Capacitors we need Eh... Sorry moved over to Doc Brown and Back to the Future lol] I would have thought Pylons that side in Llanberis are 'Electric Mountain' related or is that not the case...? It's very interesting, I have to say, I'd love to take photo of the Top Lake, buy Ray (Near Pentir) says its quiet guarded to get to... so maybe not, but next time i'm out that way I may take a few photos. Maybe Drone it would be better, I'm just outside 5 Miles of Caernarfon Airport, so that would be good and I've now qualified with all the new Drown Regs... and yearly Fee's that stepped in from October 31st, 2019. I have two registered drones I can Fly now each with there Licence Number visable. It's all politics now sadly, if I want to within 5 miles of any airport as small as Caernarfon Airport is, if I fly within set Miles, then I need permission off the Local Airport which is just not worth going there now... a load of forms to fill in and for an Hobby like model railways I can only see it getting worse or dearer. I have had to stop droning the Bontnewydd Bypass progress since November 1st due to being 2 Miles from the Airport which is a bit of a bummer to say the least. The Bigger Airport like Manchester, Gatewick or Hearthrow then the exclusion zone is 10 Miles... I can take photos for personal use but can not sell any of them as I will then need a Not Only do you need a Operator-Licence (that Enables you to Own a Drone) but also a Flyer-ID Licence (which enables you to then Fly a Drone), but you will need a Commercial Licence if you wish to sell photo or any video footage taken, which is just more money, extra exams... more expense... it's NUTS. I understand why they are doing it, to a degree, (it to get rid of the Hobbyist personally). Regards Jamie I think only one 400kV circuit comes in via underground cable from Electric Mountain and for part of it I believe it runs under or near to the Llanberis Lake narrow gauge line. The circuit runs north at present to Pentir where it feeds into the grid from there. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Hi Paul 25 minutes ago, pharrc20 said: Type One is one of the deviation type towers D10, D30, D60 or D90 whereas Type Two is a suspension tower generally known as D2 in most of the tower designs. So the D10, D30, D60 or D90 all have the Half of the number in the degree's in how much the cables will turn, E.G. D10 as 5 Degree's either way, D30 as 15 Degree's either way, D60 as 30 Degree's either way, D90 as 45 Degree's either way... Have I understood that correctly...? Interesting Paul with the above Posts... Regards Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 23 hours ago, 7APT7 said: I Never knew that Balfour Beatty were in to producing Pylons till Paul mentioned the companies involved in producing them... I'm amazed there are so many companies that are involved I would have thought this type of work would have been carried out my a single Government Recommended Comany that to appoint so many, I guess these are based on geographically... like Balfour Beatty BB, Blaw Knox BK, British Insulated Callendar Cables BICC and JL Eve JLE and Central Electricity Generating Board CEGB, as Paul pointed out. I had a family member who worked for Balfour Beatty but he was a big Sales / Buyer within the company and making £Millions£ Pound Deals for the Company that is why I notice Balfour Beatty company over any others stated, and I kind of amazed what they are involved in, I thought it was all Railway related but oh no... Interesting who does what or who gets which contracts in this world. Thanks to Paul and Pylon King... Regards Jamie A lot of the early tower designson the low voltage 11 to 66kV small towers were either locally designed by the power board and so there are a lot of different shaped towers many of which have now gone. Near you there is the remnant of one from Bangor towards the Conwy Valley up on the top of the hills. And you can see part of it up on the hill near B&Q Bangor if it is still there. Once the Electricity supply industry was nationalised then they came up with commissioning a standard design from Milliken Brothers for 132kV operation then later joined by designs from Pirelli, JL Eve, Blaw Knox and Watshams plus some area board designs too. So lots of variations lol Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 minute ago, 7APT7 said: Hi Paul So the D10, D30, D60 or D90 all have the Half of the number in the degree's in how much the cables will turn, E.G. D10 as 5 Degree's either way, D30 as 15 Degree's either way, D60 as 30 Degree's either way, D90 as 45 Degree's either way... Have I understood that correctly...? Interesting Paul with the above Posts... Regards Jamie Yep thats it so a D10 can deviate a line a max of 10 degrees so usually 5 degrees either side of the tower. The only variation to that is D20EW and D40EW towers where the line can deviate in two directions away from the tower. So on the incoming side if I've got this right would come in at 20 deg on an D40EW tower but then both circuits could deviate away at 20 deg in opposite directions on the outgoing side of the tower. These towers are often seen at substations where they feed the two circuits to two terminal towers spaced apart. There are others but it gets more complex to explain and put into words without my photos to hand (all on PC at home) Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 40 minutes ago, pharrc20 said: Yep thats it so a D10 can deviate a line a max of 10 degrees so usually 5 degrees either side of the tower. The only variation to that is D20EW and D40EW towers where the line can deviate in two directions away from the tower. So on the incoming side if I've got this right would come in at 20 deg on an D40EW tower but then both circuits could deviate away at 20 deg in opposite directions on the outgoing side of the tower. These towers are often seen at substations where they feed the two circuits to two terminal towers spaced apart. There are others but it gets more complex to explain and put into words without my photos to hand (all on PC at home) Cheers Paul Hi Paul Yes I have read you correctly then on that one, cheers Paul Does that APPLY for the same DEGREE's UP or DOWN... as well LEFT and RIGHT, I'll find a photo out of a couple of Pylons of when I was in Blaenau Ffestiniog last, the Pylon's came down a real steep part and it was only One Length of Cable to Each D1's is that...!?! they did not carry on through the Pylon the Conductor's were Horizonal as appose to Vertical... saying that they were Diagonal due to the steepness of the Incline up to the next Pylon. Regards Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, 7APT7 said: Does that APPLY for the same DEGREE's UP or DOWN... as well LEFT and RIGHT, I'll find a photo out of a couple of Pylons of when I was in Blaenau Ffestiniog last, the Pylon's came down a real steep part and it was only One Length of Cable to Each D1's is that...!?! they did not carry on through the Pylon the Conductor's were Horizonal as appose to Vertical... saying that they were Diagonal due to the steepness of the Incline up to the next Pylon. Interesting... never knew you could QUOTE yourself... lol Anyways... back to Blaenau Ffestiniog, and this is an excellent pylon for you to explain Paul or anyone else for that matter... Regards Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi All More of the Odd Looking Pylon at Blaenau Ffestiniog in North Wales.... Below is the Pylon at the Top... Tried a Bigger Format on Size to bring in Bigger as if its Closer... however that works lol its confusing as the Isolator's are both Vertical and Horizontal on the same Pylon... I would of asked, is that ever possible... !?! but obviously Yes it is... Taken in two halves, the Top and Middle Arms, then the Middle and Bottoms Arms of the Pylon... Is it a Pass Through Pylon or a Joining a New Cable Pylon.... What is also confusing on this Pylon is that Furthest Arm side seems to only have Two Isolator's but Three Isolator's on the nearest side as we see from the view in the Photo... Above...! Is this a Check-Mate Move on the Pylons... Paul... hahaha Regards Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2's are great! Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi All More of the Odd Looking Pylon at Blaenau Ffestiniog in North Wales.... Below is the Pylon at the Top... Tried a Bigger Format on Size to bring in Bigger as if its Closer... however that works lol its confusing as the Isolator's are both Vertical and Horizontal on the same Pylon... I would of asked, is that ever possible... !?! but obviously Yes it is... Taken in two halves, the Top and Middle Arms, then the Middle and Bottoms Arms of the Pylon... Is it a Pass Through Pylon or a Joining a New Cable Pylon.... What is also confusing on this Pylon is that Furthest Arm side seems to only have Two Isolator's but Three Isolator's on the nearest side as we see from the view in the Photo... Above...! Is this a Check-Mate Move on the Pylons... Paul... hahaha Regards Jamie What we have there are some lovely L3 towers, there are quite a few in wales. Designed and built in the 1950s. The one at the top is an L3D and the one nearer the bottom is and L3 D60. The reason it has 3 extra insulators is for extra support because the force from the pylon higher up is pulling the D60 so the squared off arm has those extra insulators to keep the wire and tower itself supported, it effectively holds it down. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. There are a lot of examples of this particularly with L2 D60's Best wishes, Felix Edited February 9, 2020 by L2's are great! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2's are great! Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Here's an example of an L2 D40EC with 2 extra vertical insulators on one side, but here the D40EC splits the line in two directions 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2's are great! Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 11 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi All More of the Odd Looking Pylon at Blaenau Ffestiniog in North Wales.... Below is the Pylon at the Top... Tried a Bigger Format on Size to bring in Bigger as if its Closer... however that works lol its confusing as the Isolator's are both Vertical and Horizontal on the same Pylon... I would of asked, is that ever possible... !?! but obviously Yes it is... Taken in two halves, the Top and Middle Arms, then the Middle and Bottoms Arms of the Pylon... Is it a Pass Through Pylon or a Joining a New Cable Pylon.... What is also confusing on this Pylon is that Furthest Arm side seems to only have Two Isolator's but Three Isolator's on the nearest side as we see from the view in the Photo... Above...! Is this a Check-Mate Move on the Pylons... Paul... hahaha Regards Jamie Some technical diagrams of these L3 towers including the L3C types Best Wishes, Felix 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 14 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi Paul Yes I have read you correctly then on that one, cheers Paul Does that APPLY for the same DEGREE's UP or DOWN... as well LEFT and RIGHT, I'll find a photo out of a couple of Pylons of when I was in Blaenau Ffestiniog last, the Pylon's came down a real steep part and it was only One Length of Cable to Each D1's is that...!?! they did not carry on through the Pylon the Conductor's were Horizonal as appose to Vertical... saying that they were Diagonal due to the steepness of the Incline up to the next Pylon. Regards Jamie Yes the deviation angle only applies in the horizontal plane i.e. side to side. Though I think there is a maximum and minimum angle that the insulators go up or down in the vertical plane as the metal fittings that attach the insulator strings to the towers have several positions and bolt holes. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 12 hours ago, 7APT7 said: Hi All More of the Odd Looking Pylon at Blaenau Ffestiniog in North Wales.... Below is the Pylon at the Top... Tried a Bigger Format on Size to bring in Bigger as if its Closer... however that works lol its confusing as the Isolator's are both Vertical and Horizontal on the same Pylon... I would of asked, is that ever possible... !?! but obviously Yes it is... Taken in two halves, the Top and Middle Arms, then the Middle and Bottoms Arms of the Pylon... Is it a Pass Through Pylon or a Joining a New Cable Pylon.... What is also confusing on this Pylon is that Furthest Arm side seems to only have Two Isolator's but Three Isolator's on the nearest side as we see from the view in the Photo... Above...! Is this a Check-Mate Move on the Pylons... Paul... hahaha Regards Jamie Haha its what Felix said it is possible to have both types on the same tower but almost always on D60, D90 or any of the DT or ST terminal towers. The extra vertical hung insulator would always be on the outside of the deviation turn just like you have here, plus it would also stop the loops from being blown out or inwards towards the tower in high winds like today's Storm Ciara lol. There is a nice L2 D60 with them on not far from Northwich that I sometimes pass in car - I will try take a photo of it next time I go past. Cheers Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pylon King Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 07/02/2020 at 15:29, L2's are great! said: Hi everyone, finally found a proper L6 Balfour Beatty D90, fairly rare and unusual for D90s with even crossarms. Kind regards, Felix The Oxford to Walham line - New Botley (Oxford) and Needlehole (Cotswolds) , the latter also takes the line down from quad to duo. Edited February 9, 2020 by Pylon King 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi Everyone, I have been doing some research of the Shoreham area around the cement works and it did have its own feeder line from the power station. The last bit of the line was removed around 2011 but it had a very strange design. I think it must be a pre-grid design that ran on either 33 or 66kv. I'll attach some pics of it from google streetview: This is them marching down towards the cement works. Then at the base of the hill they made a turn towards the cement works. They then terminated just outside the cement works. All the best, Matthew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pylon King Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 07/02/2020 at 15:29, L2's are great! said: Edited February 9, 2020 by Pylon King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2's are great! Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said: Hi Everyone, I have been doing some research of the Shoreham area around the cement works and it did have its own feeder line from the power station. The last bit of the line was removed around 2011 but it had a very strange design. I think it must be a pre-grid design that ran on either 33 or 66kv. I'll attach some pics of it from google streetview: This is them marching down towards the cement works. Then at the base of the hill they made a turn towards the cement works. They then terminated just outside the cement works. All the best, Matthew Ooh very odd indeed, never seen a design like that before. Best Wishes, Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 23 minutes ago, L2's are great! said: Ooh very odd indeed, never seen a design like that before. Best Wishes, Felix Yeah they are odd indeed, there is another line of them just outside Steyning nearby to here. They appear to terminate near a substation containing an L3 DT on a line to Bolney. I’ll attach some photos later. all the best, Matthew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 11 hours ago, L2's are great! said: What we have there are some lovely L3 towers, there are quite a few in wales. Designed and built in the 1950s. The one at the top is an L3D and the one nearer the bottom is and L3 D60. The reason it has 3 extra insulators is for extra support because the force from the pylon higher up is pulling the D60 so the squared off arm has those extra insulators to keep the wire and tower itself supported, it effectively holds it down. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. There are a lot of examples of this particularly with L2 D60's Best wishes, Felix Hi Felix aka L2's are great! That's very interesting and make sense once you know the correct logic behind the purpose as to why they are, like they are. Thanks for that Felix, much appropriated my friend. Regards Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, pharrc20 said: The extra vertical hung insulator would always be on the outside of the deviation turn just like you have here Hi Paul and Everyone... That makes good sense to as I did say that the Extra Insulator was only on the one side and both... It's amazing what you see in everyday life but have no clue as to why they are different... till you start asking ones who know, like Paul aka pharrc20, Felx aka L2's are great!, Matthew aka LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004, Kev aka SHMD and Pylon King. Knowledge brings people together on a subject not many would go out of there way to be so interested in, Watching Modellers make the things they do, is what interests me and I knew Paul was very knowledgeable in this area and Modeller, but at least I grasp the true understanding why they are, how they are...! We are just normal people wanting to ask questions, if you don't ask questions, how can learn the important's of... and improve on it. Thanks Everyone for all your inputs thus far, along with Photo's and Diagrams of, to understand the differences... Much Appropriated. Regards Jamie Edited February 9, 2020 by 7APT7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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