Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

Thanks. I don't want to lose natural light but perhaps some nets up would be enough to diffuse things without darkening the room.

[Nearholmer]

Or even a blind that you raise only when in there.

[Corbs]

Or you could just diff the windows?

 

It's not very expensive and you can tape or blu-tack it on.

 

https://www.stagedepot.co.uk/lighting/lighting-gel/diffusion/216-white-diffusion-lighting-gel

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I did that to the lower half of a large window in our kitchen/diner, because it is overlooked, and we felt a bit like chimps at a tea party.

 

Can't recall where I got the stuff to do it, but it came on a roll like sticky-backed plastic, but has no adhesive, one wets the window using a sponge, applies it, smooths it out with a special little thingamajig, and trains any excess with a sharp craft knife. It took about an hour to do two panes, and has been there for c6 years without trouble.

 

German-made, IIRC, and available in a range of patterns like etched glass, as well as plain diffused.

 

Suddenly remembered the spare roll in the cupboard a foot from me!

Edited January 21, 2019 by Nearholmer

[DonB]

Jumping the gun a little, You have not said how you intend to create the land-forms to cater for the inclines and dips on your layout. (And I apologise if I'm being presumptuous.)

Looking through the "back issues" of the "Black Country Blues " layout, I came across a few demonstrative photos at Page 291 (post 7275)  at

 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56607-black-country-blues/page-291.

 

Might give you ideas, or scare you rigid, with an indication of what you've let yourself in for! 

 

If you haven't seen the posts covering the inception and build of BCB you will find that a week or so of reading should give you a few ideas. Although there's a small amount of humourous asides, it basically stays on-topic!

[DCB]

I would definitely go for blinds which keep the layout dark when you are not in the room.  I have some seriously faded coaches where they have been exposed to daylight and when we leave the blind by the lift out section up we find the track there is much dirtier than elsewhere on the layout.

I love the concept of a self contained railway.  I haven't read the complete thread  but the GWR had Metros, small saddletanks and panniers and quite a few ex south wales absorbed locos on the sales list in the 20s and 30s as well as previously and the LBSC sold Terriers circa 1900 as did the LSWR with Adams Radials etc so the Metro would be quite a likely loco for a cash strapped col Stephens type line to acquire for passenger work.  I have a long term plan for one based on the Isle of Skye with locos bought new circa 1898 / 1902 and replacements bought secondhand in the 20s and 30s.

[Martin S-C]

I would definitely go for blinds which keep the layout dark when you are not in the room.  I have some seriously faded coaches where they have been exposed to daylight and when we leave the blind by the lift out section up we find the track there is much dirtier than elsewhere on the layout.

 

I love the concept of a self contained railway.  I haven't read the complete thread  but the GWR had Metros, small saddletanks and panniers and quite a few ex south wales absorbed locos on the sales list in the 20s and 30s as well as previously and the LBSC sold Terriers circa 1900 as did the LSWR with Adams Radials etc so the Metro would be quite a likely loco for a cash strapped col Stephens type line to acquire for passenger work.  I have a long term plan for one based on the Isle of Skye with locos bought new circa 1898 / 1902 and replacements bought secondhand in the 20s and 30s.

Thanks for the extra input on blinds. I was so focussed on the security/privacy issue that I quite ignored the idea of light protection for models.

 

I have to confess I have a habit of Jackdaw (Edit: or is it Magpie?) modelling and tend to suffer low willpower so my collection of locos is way too large and eclectic for any proper historical reasoning for a small line to have such a gathering of motive power. I am a lover of the small and quirky though. I have a Metro already and more than one Terrier and Adams radial. E-bay furnished many unbuilt kits including a Furness 2-2-2WT, a couple of 2-4-0 and 4-4-0 tender engines, a 2-2-2 Problem Class as well as an 850 class saddletank and other fun small idiosyncratic locos.

 

 

 

 

 

I am somewhat more free with my freelancing than many others. I was going to set the limit at a couple of 4-4-0 passenger engines until Bachmann released this which is too gorgeous not to own and of course once you have it you need to run it somewhere...

 

 

Jumping the gun a little, You have not said how you intend to create the land-forms to cater for the inclines and dips on your layout. (And I apologise if I'm being presumptuous.)

If you haven't seen the posts covering the inception and build of BCB you will find that a week or so of reading should give you a few ideas. Although there's a small amount of humourous asides, it basically stays on-topic!

BCB is a great thread packed full of useful and inspirational things and in fact celotex sheets and offcuts is the plan. Since I was last a 4mm indoor modeller back in the 80s, technology has moved on and while I am at home with a latticework of cornflake packet strips and Modroc the advent of these dense light insulation foams on the market makes the construction of rolling scenery a no-brainer. One of the visions I have is that almost no part of the layout away from a major station will be level because, well, when you look around you, no natural landscape is. Apart from where the land surface will have been levelled by railway engineers I don't want the layout to look like its a flat board that has some rises on. I want it to flow in all kinds of directions with shapes dictated by wind and water rather than a fictional level subframe under evenything.

 

Pendon is one of the few places this works in model form. I can stand for hours just looking at the shape of the land in the Vale Scene even before I begin to drool at any of the man-made structures.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Annie]

What a delightful collection of kits and locomotives you have Martin.

[Martin S-C]

Far too many! No doubt some will stay in boxes and get sold on to other modellers in the years to come!

Early on in this thread I was asked if there was a continuous run, and of course there isn't but I have recently been thinking that one would be useful for testing and running in and have come up with this - in red:

Both the places the hidden loop leaves and joins the main line are at +2" above datum and the entire loop is under scenic boards that are quite a bit higher so it would be possible from a carpentry POV to have this installed. I wasn't happy about the points just inside the tunnel mouths and might in each case, move them a foot or so outside into the open and make them as scenic signalled junctions. It would then be possible to just have a train circle if I wanted to relax with a cuppa or to have (for example) a coal train come up the grade from the MVR exchange sidings, enter Puddlebrook on the southern platform face (platform 4), pass through the station, take the continuous loop line a little further east to arrive around past the colliery on its circuit, arriving into Puddlebrook's northern platform face (platform 1) and then be reversed into the colliery.

A similar fiction can be employed in the reverse direction so a train can pass through Puddlebrook via 2 different platforms en-route to the exchange sidings, or using the good old 1920s-1930s railway modellers trick, just circuit more than once en-route from Nether Madder - Puddlebrook (x times) - Green Soudley to make a longer run.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Northroader]

The layout I once had which saw the most use of any of them was a fairly simple circuit with a loop and some sidings. It was nice just to set a train going and watch it in motion, going round and round, seeing the rods working, spokes twinkling, and the wagons lurching through the points. No operating or driving as such, so yeah, I would recommend a circuit, not so much for testing, but for just for relaxation.

[Denbridge]

Far too many! No doubt some will stay in boxes and get sold on to other modellers in the years to come!

Early on in this thread I was asked if there was a continuous run, and of course there isn't but I have recently been thinking that one would be useful for testing and running in and have come up with this - in red:

Both the places the hidden loop leaves and joins the main line are at +2" above datum and the entire loop is under scenic boards that are quite a bit higher so it would be possible from a carpentry POV to have this installed. I wasn't happy about the points just inside the tunnel mouths and might in each case, move them a foot or so outside into the open and make them as scenic signalled junctions. It would then be possible to just have a train circle if I wanted to relax with a cuppa or to have (for example) a coal train come up the grade from the MVR exchange sidings, enter Puddlebrook on the southern platform face (platform 4), pass through the station, take the continuous loop line a little further east to arrive around past the colliery on its circuit, arriving into Puddlebrook's northern platform face (platform 1) and then be reversed into the colliery.

A similar fiction can be employed in the reverse direction so a train can pass through Puddlebrook via 2 different platforms en-route to the exchange sidings, or using the good old 1920s-1930s railway modellers trick, just circuit more than once en-route from Nether Madder - Puddlebrook (x times) - Green Soudley to make a longer run.

Plan_Thirteen_Scenery_Baseboards_Cont-Run.png

a continuous run really is so useful for all the right reasons. The only point I would make is with so much hidden track, make sure you can get at it all easily. It is the law of sod that any derailments will happen in the most inaccessible place and that any maintenance required will be in the same places.

[St Enodoc]

a continuous run really is so useful for all the right reasons. The only point I would make is with so much hidden track, make sure you can get at it all easily. It is the law of sod that any derailments will happen in the most inaccessible place and that any maintenance required will be in the same places.

...and definitely don't put points inside tunnels.

[Nearholmer]

I'm also heftily in favour of circuits, believing that the best topology for a model railway is a circuit, with branches off to two termini, ideally from a junction station.

 

One advantage of a circuit not mentioned so far is that, when your mates come round to play trains, and conversation drifts off onto some irrelevant topic or another, a circulating train can generally be trusted to get on with things on its own for a bit. 

 

I do like your selection of less-common tank engines, but that Atlantic does seem a bit on the big side for your sort of railway!

[Martin S-C]

Points not in tunnels. Check. I know its probably Rule #2 but its always good to be reminded.

 

Its also easier to decide on scale speeds with a circuit. Once its laid and I know how many inches it is I can time locos around it and get the speeds right. Not so easy on an end to end setup due to the stop-start bit.

An Atlantic is too big, much too big. I think a 4-4-0 is pushing it. However, its absolute prettiness (of both colour and shape) convinced me it had to be bought. Me and beautiful model Vic-wardian engines are like Smeagol and magic rings. I have a Stirling Single for the same reason. Maybe these will run on other people's layouts. Or maybe when the hour is late, mist flows in the vale and no-one's around the Special Toys will Come out to Play.

 

Conversely I have very little interest in post-grouping designs and BR standards are hideous things. Their only redeeming features are external combustion and flanged wheels.

[Harlequin]

Points not in tunnels. Check. I know its probably Rule #2 but its always good to be reminded.

 

Possibly not a complete no-no if you have open frame baseboards because then track and/or trains can be reached from underneath.

 

Not ideal, I know, but at least there is a means of access in emergencies.

[Denbridge]

Possibly not a complete no-no if you have open frame baseboards because then track and/or trains can be reached from underneath.

 

Not ideal, I know, but at least there is a means of access in emergencies.

but keeping that ease of access from below allows any errant trains an easy route to the floor and isnt much use for maintenance access.

[Annie]

but keeping that ease of access from below allows any errant trains an easy route to the floor and isnt much use for maintenance access.

Fabric 'nets' mounted on hooks screwed in under the layout is the answer to that.  Long (long) ago I was involved with a large open frame club layout that used that solution.  The catch nets can be easily unhooked to recover rolling stock and as a method it's relatively cheap to do.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Annie

[Denbridge]

Fabric 'nets' mounted on hooks screwed in under the layout is the answer to that.  Long (long) ago I was involved with a large open frame club layout that used that solution.  The catch nets can be easily unhooked to recover rolling stock and as a method it's relatively cheap to do.

maybe, though fine detail would still get damaged and the issue of maintainance is still an issue that requires very careful consideration.

[Annie]

Seems to me most present day RTR would get damaged anyway in a derailment even if it never left the surface of the layout.  The net method is about minimising damage with a situation that's better than a plunge to the floor.  Pick the right kind of fabric and you can even have a slight shock absorbing effect.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Annie

[St Enodoc]

Seems to me most present day RTR would get damaged anyway in a derailment even if it never left the surface of the layout.  The net method is about minimising damage with a situation that's better than a plunge to the floor.  Pick the right kind of fabric and you can even have a slight shock absorbing effect.

Good point. Lycra or Spandex might even bounce the thing back on to the track...

[Corbs]

 I have a Stirling Single for the same reason. Maybe these will run on other people's layouts. Or maybe when the hour is late, mist flows in the vale and no-one's around the Special Toys will Come out to Play.

 

Or Ye Olde Modeller's Friend, the 'Summer Excursion' train, journeying from Forn Parts 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Corbs

[Martin S-C]

Fabric 'nets' mounted on hooks screwed in under the layout is the answer to that.  Long (long) ago I was involved with a large open frame club layout that used that solution.  The catch nets can be easily unhooked to recover rolling stock and as a method it's relatively cheap to do.

This was exactly my plan as it happens, great thinks mind alike and all that.

 

I have had strings of RTR wagons take a tumble onto a carpet with no damage at all. RTR coaches might be the same as there's not that much on them to break unless they dive coupling first - there's so little mass. Kit built items tend to be more fraglile but even then its usually only a case of replacing broken buffers,etc. Its really only locos that suffer from a drop of 3 feet or more and in that case a safety net could save you the difference between a working model and a total wreck. Replacing damaged details like buffers, couplings, brake gear, whistles, etc is a pain but a lot less painful than having a £300 paperweight.

 

As for out-of-period trains I liked David Jenkinson's (very honest) excuse. A stickler for complete period accuracy to within a time period of about 48 months, he still liked "fantasy" models and quite brazenly kept a few stored in his fiddle yard to run when he was just relaxing or wanted a change. In my case though I'd like the out-of-place engines like the Atlantic to do a useful job in the timetable so perhaps a bit less honesty will have to creep in and we can have either excursions, specials or locomotive trials from another region, perhaps even a locomotive being tested in preparation for purchase. It may just end up as a case of apply Rule #1 and keep smiling though, at least at home. If it ever got as far as people paying to see the layout at a show then I'd make every effort to trim the stock down to plausible levels and types.

[Martin S-C]

More work today on the baseboard frames. Unfortunately after a long discussion we decided against the sexy lifting flap design I wanted to use - in fact due to the low headroom in the room we agreed I can't have a hinged flap at all and it will have to be a freely lifting out section that will be stored on its end inside a "cupboard" that we'll construct for it under the layout and to the left of the door. This also probably means the buildings on this board which are the Puddlebrook station building and waiting rooms, plus the Witts End engine shed will have to be removable. I'm therefore now thinking of siting the engine shed off this board completely and shifting it a few inches to the right because it would be obviously preferable for the branch engine to be left inside its shed between operating sessions.

 

We discussed mounting the moveable section on a trolley but the operating well isn't wide enough to push it out of its recess and then squeeze by.

 

The photo is looking east from the doorway entry. Neil is at the far end with his right hand near where Armisford Mill will be. Note that beyond the centre Nether Madder terminus frame we've raised the end U-shape of frames 4" to reduce the height of the stilts needed to support the ply station boards. The centre section of the Nether Madder/Green Soudley frames is also raised 4" partly for the same reason and partly to allow operators to scoot under more easily on my little wheeled cart.

 

The cart is shown in the second pic.

 

 

[Harlequin]

Does the door open inwards or outwards?

 

If outwards, or if it could be re-hung to open outwards, then the lifting section just needs to move higher to make the duck-under easier. Some sort of counter-weighted parallel pulley system, perhaps?

 

That would allow all buildings and stock to remain in place.

[Nearholmer]

The wheeled stool will be a hit with any visiting children, and childish adults.