Hornby dublo

[Il Grifone]

The rust might come off the paintwork with a little careful rubbing, but the handrails at least are esily replaced. They are just wire threaded through the tender side and folded over.

The two rail conversion is a bit more tricky, as the City chassis does not fit without modification. Replacing the wheels is not too difficult and they can be found on eBay, Wrenn still sell the insulating bushes, but this looks like an early matt finish 'Montrose' which still has thin axle ends and crank pins. These were both beefed up on later models, starting with the 4MT 2-6-4T.

I had to bush the new wheels when I converted my 'Sir Nigel' in the '60s. (Meccano Ltd had at last reversed their 'no spares' policy and wheels were available (1/6d each IIRC). All my Dublo locos got converted at the time. The left hand side should be insulated to avoid the necessity of reversing the magnet.

[robmcg]

On 30/07/2018 at 17:49, Wolseley said:

 

 

As regards my earlier reply to your question, please don't think that I'm trying to show off by saying I have so many locomotives (I suspect, in any case, that two or three other forum members at least would look upon my collection as small).  If anything, I suppose you could take it as a warning as to where all this could lead - in my case it all started with the purchase of a Bristol Castle and six coaches around two years ago.....

 

I have to say I suspect I have been bitten buy this bug...   just bought an EDP12 set in excellent order for £100 and have already started itching to buy extra track, locos, engines....

 

Where will it end....?

[Il Grifone]

3 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

I have to say I suspect I have been bitten buy this bug...   just bought an EDP12 set in excellent order for £100 and have already started itching to buy extra track, locos, engines....

 

Where will it end....?

 

 

Iat takes a while to get one (or two or three...) of everything!  I still haven't quite made it and I got my first Dublo in 1951....

[sagaguy]

11 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

I have to say I suspect I have been bitten buy this bug...   just bought an EDP12 set in excellent order for £100 and have already started itching to buy extra track, locos, engines....

 

Where will it end....?

It doesn`t,.To wean my self away from dublo for a while,i`m just about to order a 3 1/2 " gauge live steam Class 5 which is going back to one of my other hobbies of model engineering but here`s a pic of my latest almost finished Dublo city conversion.

 

                       Ray

[robmcg]

59 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

 

 

Iat takes a while to get one (or two or three...) of everything!  I still haven't quite made it and I got my first Dublo in 1951....

 

Thank you and sagauy for your wise words...   I wonder if there's a pill I can take?

 

Meanwhile I have just ordered the Michael Foster book (definitive tome?  ) 'History of Hornby Dublo Trains' and expect to be better-informed, apart of course from this august on-line resource.

 

In the meantime why are mint Duchesses so cheap and similar West Country 3-rail models so expensive?  Simple rarity or is there something else I'm missing?

 

I have actually asked a brother of mine who still lives in the house I grew up in, and played happily with Hornby 0 then 00 3-rail then 00 two rail between 1954 and 1966  to have a look in some of the darker corners and he came up with ...

 

 

and this...

 

 

Which is all rather good because at one point when I was about 13 yrs old I wanted to go TT3 and after school loaded several bags and rode my pushbike 4 miles to a second-hand dealer with tons of H-D three rail stuff, and he have me $4/10/0    my mother was livid, marched me into our car and drove me back at speed to the shop where the rather scared owner was just closing up at 5pm.. 

 

It was illegal to buy such things off a minor, my mother God bless her let him have it with both barrels as it were and he sheepishly and rather cannily said " oh, I have re-valued it all, and it's worth £10.."

 

My mother had no idea what I had sold, and I forget, mostly track and rolling stock, but lots of it,  so she got some money and I ended up buying not TT3 but putting things towards other crazes like a movie camera...

 

youth!    what can you do, eh?

 

 

 

[robmcg]

Not content with this at UKP100 with re-maged cleaned everything etc

 

 

I found myself idly looking at Ebay and thought.... 'this looks good'   and bought it at UKP175 post free...

 

 

Always had a soft spot for Atholl, we had one of those as a child I recall, but I don't recall that it ran. Mysterious things these electric motors. 

 

This one has a horseshoe magnet and the set is from 1948-9 according to the seller, 

 

In any event I believe I am now on the road to ruin and perdition.  Or perhaps the high plain of contentment. One or t'other.

 

cheers 

 

 

[Il Grifone]

Certainly the latter! 

 

There were masses of Duchesses sold (they were about all you could get at the time*), but by the time the W.C. appeared Meccano were in decline and had launched the 2 rail system ( a 'Barnstable' is much less expensive than a 'Dorchester' as a result).

 

A horseshoe 'Atholl' will indeed be from 1948/9 and that one looks to be in really excellent condition. The Duchess appeared in 1948 and they switched to AlNiCo magnets in 1949. The models are quite rare as supplies of everything were short and most was rationed at the time. The photo isn't clear (and my eyesight isn't what it was), but she appears to be the rare version where the slot under the nameplate was represented as a raised bump, These have a premium! Both sets are unusual as they still have the oil vial and the spanner. Do they still have the paperwork  - instructions, test tag and guarantee (only 90 days then!)?  A good box etc. can double the value of the contents.

 

* Apart from the other Dublo locomotives (the A4 and N2), there were only the expensive Trix and Farish models and the rather crude early Tri-ang/Rovex Princess in self destructing acetate plastic and the ex Trackmaster clockwork N2. There were a few rarities for examples Gaiety  who provided yet other variation of the N2 and a rather poor (I though it was awful at the time!) pannier tank. We had to wait until until late 1954 for a new locomotive (the 2-6-4T). The Tri-ang Jinty appeared about the same time (again in acetate}.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Il Grifone

[robmcg]

Thanks Il Grifone,

 

No mention of instructions or guarantee in the ad, but it seemed a good price for the condition, and I bought it because I didn't want to lose the opportunity.  No regrets at all,which is my main test of hurried purchases.

 

There are a few Atholls for sale on Ebay mostly worn damaged or un-boxed but quite reasonable at the £50 area for tidy versions.

 

Personally I found the two Duchess versions and their various iterations more appealing back in the 50s than the A4..  the latter's small wheels and flat cylinder shape rather put me off even then.  We had a couple of N2s which were always rather cheap, and still have a rather tidy Bristol Castle,  but clearly when a nice tidy West Country appears, I will be sorely tempted.  Were both Dorchester and Barnstple done in 3-rail?

 

I have to say I'm not so keen on plastic-wheel versions,far too modern! 

 

edit, a closer pic of the Atholl purchased, Described as 'runs very well'.

 

 

Further thoughts;

 

The one think which appeals about H-D 3-rail is the sense of metal-on-metal train noises, passing trains, clickety-clack and so on, somewhat lacking on some 00 layouts and totally absent in N gauge ...   I recall as a child running a 3-rail train and placing my tongue over the three-rail track,and yes, I got a mild shock...      Scientific enquiry only, you understand.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by robmcg

[roythebus]

That's ok providing you weren't using an early transformer and the wiring was dodgy...250volts through your tongue, bleah!

 

[robmcg]

It was alright.  It only affected my brain. 

 

That's how I made this , from Hornby's later offering...

 

 

Based on a scene at Thankerton in an O S Nock book, edited.

Edited May 15, 2019 by robmcg

[sagaguy]

The loco finished at last with red backed nameplates & smoke box numberplate & drawhook fitted.I`ve ordered a Hornby tender top from peters spares but i may have to modify the tender chassis to fit.

 

             Ray

[Il Grifone]

I seem to recall from my attempts to marry Hornby tender bodies with Dublo or Wrenn chassis that they fit OK (as they should) but some sort of fixing needs to be manufactured.

 

Barnstable was the 2 rail version and Dorchester the 3 rail, though Hattons used to sell them with the bodies swopped over at a extra charge.  Apart from the name/number, the only difference is in the pickup arrangements (and insulated driving wheels on the 2 rail version of course). (The magnet polarity is also reversed so that they run in the right direction*.)  Wrenn production had various names, but were all 2 rail.

 

*Both systems run forward with the right hand rail positive, which results in the chassis polarity being reversed. They didn't think to insulate the left hand side which would have solved the problem.

 

If she runs like my horseshoe Duchess, the desciption is 'bat out of hell'.... She came with Romford 26mm drivers, but now has proper Dublo ones.

[robmcg]

12 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I seem to recall from my attempts to marry Hornby tender bodies with Dublo or Wrenn chassis that they fit OK (as they should) but some sort of fixing needs to be manufactured.

 

Barnstable was the 2 rail version and Dorchester the 3 rail, though Hattons used to sell them with the bodies swopped over at a extra charge.  Apart from the name/number, the only difference is in the pickup arrangements (and insulated driving wheels on the 2 rail version of course). (The magnet polarity is also reversed so that they run in the right direction*.)  Wrenn production had various names, but were all 2 rail.

 

*Both systems run forward with the right hand rail positive, which results in the chassis polarity being reversed. They didn't think to insulate the left hand side which would have solved the problem.

 

If she runs like my horseshoe Duchess, the description is 'bat out of hell'.... She came with Romford 26mm drivers, but now has proper Dublo ones.

 

Thank you for that information.  It's all a learning-curve for me, even though I was familiar with Hornby Dublo as a kid.

 

In scanning the offerings on Ebay and elsewhere I have wondered about the differences between horseshoe and block style magnets and motors. Visually the horsehoe version with armature vertical and directly driving the rear driving looks to me inherently high-geared, but I'm not sure if any of the Dublo models had further reduction gearing beyond drive gear-worm . Yet.

 

Many sellers offer 're-maged' models and I presume the magnets have been re-magnetised, I'm not sure how this is done. Yet I used to assemble chokes and transformers for and electrical goods manufacturer in the late 1970s... winding wires around plastic, basically.

 

As far as the various Dublo models go I do rather like the LNER A4 and notice a variable 'sit' of the engine body on its chassis, down at the rear on one or both sides, and wonder if this an easy fix or something more serious?

 

 

Thanks for the replies and information, I have much to learn, and it is a most enjoyable feeling , not unlike the good feelings as a child with a Hornby Dublo catalogue under my pillow!

 

cheers 

[Dorkingian]

Back in the (slightly more) modern world...

 

I celebrated the fine weather by running the Hornby Dublo 8F on a goods train in the garden.  The loco and tender started life as 3-rail, but were later swapped onto 2-rail chassies(?) as part of the growing-up process, so are not entirely kosher.

 

Starting with the train passing Throstlebeck Sidings signalbox.

 

I'd like to show more pics, but they seem to be large files so come up against the upload limit.  Maybe later...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Dorkingian
photo limit

[Il Grifone]

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Thank you for that information.  It's all a learning-curve for me, even though I was familiar with Hornby Dublo as a kid.

 

In scanning the offerings on Ebay and elsewhere I have wondered about the differences between horseshoe and block style magnets and motors. Visually the horsehoe version with armature vertical and directly driving the rear driving looks to me inherently high-geared, but I'm not sure if any of the Dublo models had further reduction gearing beyond drive gear-worm . Yet.

 

Many sellers offer 're-maged' models and I presume the magnets have been re-magnetised, I'm not sure how this is done. Yet I used to assemble chokes and transformers for and electrical goods manufacturer in the late 1970s... winding wires around plastic, basically.

 

As far as the various Dublo models go I do rather like the LNER A4 and notice a variable 'sit' of the engine body on its chassis, down at the rear on one or both sides, and wonder if this an easy fix or something more serious?

 

 

Thanks for the replies and information, I have much to learn, and it is a most enjoyable feeling , not unlike the good feelings as a child with a Hornby Dublo catalogue under my pillow!

 

cheers 

 

On the A4, the chassis locates into a metal bracket similar to that on the Duchess. This one looks like either the chassis is mislocated or the bracket is bent or loose as it should line up with the tender. I do think that both locos sit a bit low, possibly due to the undersize wheels, though fitting the correct size (difficult on the A4) would result in the buffers being too high.

That's the set Santa brought me in 1952. I like the optimistic label on the box. It wouldn't be allowed today* and shows already obsolete pre-war items anyway. (Wooden buildings and points that actually match the plain track! It looks like the prototype footbridge that never made it to production is included.) Supplies of stock were limited at the time in any case.

 

*I don't think I was ever in any illusion that you about box labels!

 

Remagnetising involves a strong magnetic pulse usually from a large electromagnet. There is some information elsewhere on RMweb and some members offer a service. I use neodymium magnets but rather smaller than the full size ones on offer to approximate the original field strength. I have seen a suggestion that 30 turns of thick wire flashed to a car battery will do the trick, but have never had the courage (stupidity?) to try it!

The 'bible' (a copy is essential!) lists the Meccano Ltd. specification for performance. For example, new, the City/Duchess and A4 were expected to attain roughly a scale 100mph with four SD coaches. This was for the 2 rail models. The earlier horseshoe and AlNiCo vertical motors have a higher gear ratio (15:1 IIRC), but a ratio of 18:1 was introduced with the 2-6-4T in 1954. (This had a (useless) magnetic shunt device to adjust the motor speed accessed through an unsightly hole in the back of the bunker - I always remove it and have several sitting in a box somewhere.)  The early gears are noticeably coarser than the later ones.

 

I always thought the Tri-ang catalogue outshadowed the Dublo one and always eagerly awaited the new one in January, despite problems running Tri-ang stock on my Dublo layout. Peco came to the rescue with wheels and couplings for the coaches and wagons (At a price! the new wheels and couplings cost nearly as much as the vehicle! IIRC my new SR utility van cost me 7/6d and the Peco conversion kit was 4/6d). Hattons could supply Tri-ang locomotives converted for Dublo 3 rail, but again at a price and I never indulged,

[sagaguy]

A Ron Dodd remagnetiser video.I have one of these.They used to come up on Ebay but i got mine through the HRCA.

Ray.

                               

 

[Dorkingian]

A last quick pic from yesterday.  The fifth wagon in the train is the Tri-ang converter wagon for coupling Peco and tension lock vehicles together; a shame they made it in the Tri-ang tradition with open axleboxes.

 

 

 

[Il Grifone]

They modified the old wagon underframe casting - waste not, want not....

 

For even further economy, they used the old (ex Trackmaster) open wagon moulding in black. I've put a 16T mineral on one of mine, not wanting to mess up the original*. There is also a horse box version, which can be used for passenger trains.

 

* A large selection of alternatives is available. The underframe is incorrect for most (all?) of them.

 

[robmcg]

13 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

On the A4, the chassis locates into a metal bracket similar to that on the Duchess. This one looks like either the chassis is mislocated or the bracket is bent or loose as it should line up with the tender. I do think that both locos sit a bit low, possibly due to the undersize wheels, though fitting the correct size (difficult on the A4) would result in the buffers being too high.

That's the set Santa brought me in 1952. I like the optimistic label on the box. It wouldn't be allowed today* and shows already obsolete pre-war items anyway. (Wooden buildings and points that actually match the plain track! It looks like the prototype footbridge that never made it to production is included.) Supplies of stock were limited at the time in any case.

 

*I don't think I was ever in any illusion that you about box labels!

 

Remagnetising involves a strong magnetic pulse usually from a large electromagnet. There is some information elsewhere on RMweb and some members offer a service. I use neodymium magnets but rather smaller than the full size ones on offer to approximate the original field strength. I have seen a suggestion that 30 turns of thick wire flashed to a car battery will do the trick, but have never had the courage (stupidity?) to try it!

The 'bible' (a copy is essential!) lists the Meccano Ltd. specification for performance. For example, new, the City/Duchess and A4 were expected to attain roughly a scale 100mph with four SD coaches. This was for the 2 rail models. The earlier horseshoe and AlNiCo vertical motors have a higher gear ratio (15:1 IIRC), but a ratio of 18:1 was introduced with the 2-6-4T in 1954. (This had a (useless) magnetic shunt device to adjust the motor speed accessed through an unsightly hole in the back of the bunker - I always remove it and have several sitting in a box somewhere.)  The early gears are noticeably coarser than the later ones.

 

I always thought the Tri-ang catalogue outshadowed the Dublo one and always eagerly awaited the new one in January, despite problems running Tri-ang stock on my Dublo layout. Peco came to the rescue with wheels and couplings for the coaches and wagons (At a price! the new wheels and couplings cost nearly as much as the vehicle! IIRC my new SR utility van cost me 7/6d and the Peco conversion kit was 4/6d). Hattons could supply Tri-ang locomotives converted for Dublo 3 rail, but again at a price and I never indulged,

 

Thanks very much for that calm and sage advice, Il Grifone.

 

Given that any 3-rail H-D I buy will be primarily for the pleasure of owning such a nice item from the past, with occasional outings for play or photographic pleasure, I am hesitant about buying anything too scruffy. My own old models qualify for that.  Thus if I buy a very tidy model I would like it to stay that way, and certainly be capable a running after perhaps a touch of judicious oiling here and there. If the sit of the body on the chassis is repairable then I'm not too worried. 

 

Thus my nervousness about the 'sit' of that A4 on its chassis...

 

When I was about 8yrs old I had a coloured A5 landscape format Hornby catalogue (contained Dinky toys and possibly some 0 gauge), it may have been a 1957-8 era publication, I would have died for a Standard 2-6-4T set with three carriages!  But that year my Xmas present was a Meccano Set No.2...   another story.  

 

So the LNER Sir Nigel A4 set does appeal, and it has what is described as a block magnet.  It is definitely used but seems very tidy, lacking instruction leaflet and guarantee and transformer top card.

 

One thing I might look at first is pre-war Dublo...  now there's a place I have never dared to tread!    My father had an outdoor 0 gauge set with considerable extra stuff but Dublo was I suspect, in 1939 pretty uncommon here in NZ.

 

Thanks again and best to all  

[Il Grifone]

 

DANGER Grifone waffle alert!

 

I got my Meccano set the year before the Dublo. Everyone had proper toys then!

 

I received the the newly introduced 2-6-4T for Xmas  and the coaches for my birthday in January 1955. Being impatient, I got lumbered with the D13 type with printed windows rather than the D14 with proper windows!

The block magnet will be the AlNiCo type, so the set will date between 1949 -1952, The BR liveries appeared in 1953 (around June IIRC) but, with the Korean War, I doubt many sets were produced in the later period, as they must have been preparing for the launch of the new liveries. I know my parents had problems providing coaches for my 'Atholl'. She arrived with a collection of wagons* and during 1952 a Trix LMS scale length coach and Farish Pullman (Pauline) appeared. Neither was a success! The Trix coach wouldn't run on Dublo track. (All we had to do was change the wheels, but we didn't know this (or how to do it) at the time.) The Farish was too heavy and my poor 'Atholl' struggled to move it. (I don't know what we did about the reluctance of these things to go around Dublo curves, but I remember tring to get replacement bogies!) Finally a solitary LMS composite put in an appearance, but it wasn't until Xmas that I finally had sufficient coaches to make a short train.

1953 saw the arrival of a 'Montrose' and two coaches so finally I could put together a decent train albeit rather mixed. Dublo tender locomotives are quite happy with five coaches, although they will handle more if the conditions are right. I have had 10 LNER coaches behind my 'Gresley'.

 

* None of the rare ones - see below.

 

Pre-war Dublo is a minefield. Most of it suffers from zinc pest and this can show up at any time. I recently fitted a Graham Farish Pullman car with 'new' truss rod/accumulator castings. Luckily I had three (eBay). They all looked fine at first glance, but one was OK, a second one was slightly bowed and didn't quite fit properly. So I tried the third and this fractured as I tried to fit it. Back to the second! The car is one of the later series from the sixties, but has earlier bogies and truss rods (It came as a bare body. With Dublo, it seems to affect mainly the wheels (probably worsened by the vibration?), but any of the die-cast parts are liable. Wagon underframes are frequently bowed for example.

Apparently Meccano had printed a quantity of wagon body sheets before the war and managed to hide then away. (How they managed this I don't know. It must have been a large pile if tinplate! This means that most pre-nationalisation stock actually has a pre-war body. I think it was about 1950 before they needed to produce any more and then only a limited range. I assume the rarer wagons like the SR and GW vehicles and the LNER high sided open and LMS cattle truck weren't produced. The tank wagons were also revised as part of this operation.  The sintered iron wheels appeared around this period and are a handy way of dating wagons.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Il Grifone

[robmcg]

15 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

DANGER Grifone waffle alert!

 

I got my Meccano set the year before the Dublo. Everyone had proper toys then!

 

I received the the newly introduced 2-6-4T for Xmas  and the coaches for my birthday in January 1955. Being impatient, I got lumbered with the D13 type with printed windows rather than the D14 with proper windows!

The block magnet will be the AlNiCo type, so the set will date between 1949 -1952, The BR liveries appeared in 1953 (around June IIRC) but, with the Korean War, I doubt many sets were produced in the later period, as they must have been preparing for the launch of the new liveries. I know my parents had problems providing coaches for my 'Atholl'. She arrived with a collection of wagons* and during 1952 a Trix LMS scale length coach and Farish Pullman (Pauline) appeared. Neither was a success! The Trix coach wouldn't run on Dublo track. (All we had to do was change the wheels, but we didn't know this (or how to do it) at the time.) The Farish was too heavy and my poor 'Atholl' struggled to move it. (I don't know what we did about the reluctance of these things to go around Dublo curves, but I remember tring to get replacement bogies!) Finally a solitary LMS composite put in an appearance, but it wasn't until Xmas that I finally had sufficient coaches to make a short train.

1953 saw the arrival of a 'Montrose' and two coaches so finally I could put together a decent train albeit rather mixed. Dublo tender locomotives are quite happy with five coaches, although they will handle more if the conditions are right. I have had 10 LNER coaches behind my 'Gresley'.

 

* None of the rare ones - see below.

 

Pre-war Dublo is a minefield. Most of it suffers from zinc pest and this can show up at any time. I recently fitted a Graham Farish Pullman car with 'new' truss rod/accumulator castings. Luckily I had three (eBay). They all looked fine at first glance, but one was OK, a second one was slightly bowed and didn't quite fit properly. So I tried the third and this fractured as I tried to fit it. Back to the second! The car is one of the later series from the sixties, but has earlier bogies and truss rods (It came as a bare body. With Dublo, it seems to affect mainly the wheels (probably worsened by the vibration?), but any of the die-cast parts are liable. Wagon underframes are frequently bowed for example.

Apparently Meccano had printed a quantity of wagon body sheets before the war and managed to hide then away. (How they managed this I don't know. It must have been a large pile if tinplate! This means that most pre-nationalisation stock actually has a pre-war body. I think it was about 1950 before they needed to produce any more and then only a limited range. I assume the rarer wagons like the SR and GW vehicles and the LNER high sided open and LMS cattle truck weren't produced. The tank wagons were also revised as part of this operation.  The sintered iron wheels appeared around this period and are a handy way of dating wagons.

 

Very interesting.  I will forgo the pre-war stuff, especially considering the likelihood that some post-war 1946-50 era stuff  was printed pre-war.

 

I must ask, when you refer to zinc and failed/aged castings is this the same as mazak rot?

 

A lot of the early H-D stuff has rather bleached-looking wheel castings. Do these fail or suffer? Are they sintered iron? What material preceded this?  How many questions can I fit in a paragraph?

 

Also interesting with the suburban carriages changing from printed windows to 'proper' ones.  The printed LNER coaches rather are very 'period' in this regard, but of course if one required complete accuracy one wouldn't be looking at early Hornby anyway.

 

Still looking at various ads for set, engines, rolling stock and so on , rather like a schoolboy looking at a shop window display on the way home from school! An A4 Gresley set has appeal because it so so 'pre-war' in appearance.  I am still waiting for my paid-for Atholl set of 1948-9 to be sent from the UK.  i have locally bought Montrose set already.

[Il Grifone]

Yes one and the same! I prefer not to talk about 'mazak' (or 'zamak' as the Americans prefer) as they are trade names. The Material is a zinc alloy and is sublect to impurities (especially lead) causing it to expand a break up. The effect is known from the late twenties, but it was only research during WW II that conclusively determined the cause. Really only Post war Dublo and Tri-ang seem immune. Sporadic appearances of the blight (I like 'zinc pest from the German) stll crop up from time to time>There is a long thread about on here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/25-modelling-questions-help-and-tips/ (right at the top). Damp can produce a similar effect where the meat grows a white deposit and corrodes away (similar to rust on iron). I have a Dublo low sided wagon (part of a job lot) which I've robbed for wheels, couplings etc. and it's destined for the bin. At the moment, it's in isolation as I haven't the heart....

 

The wheels are particularly prone to the effect. The sintered iron rolling stock wheels (fitted from 1951 to all 3 rail vehicles) are obviously immune from zinc pest, but liable to rust instead. Earlier wheels (and driving bogie and tender wheels) are alloy on a steel axle. Easily recognised by the greyish colour and the iron wheels have a rather awful square tyre profile. From the introduction of the SD6 range (1957 IIRC) nylon wheels were fitted. No rot (though they do melt), but very prone to picking up crud. From the introduction of 2 rail all the driving wheels were nickel plated to the detriment of adhesion and pony, bogie and tender wheels became nylon. 3 rail locomotives so adorned have a premium. A nickel wheeled Mallard is ' worth' quite a lot more than one with plain alloy wheels.

 

The printed windows are a hang over from the 0 gauge range. The LMS coaches were designed pre-war and had see-through windows from the start. Unfortunately the transparent material is acetate which shrinks. I have cut some into sections so that they line up with the windows, but it's a hassle taking the coach apart to do this. The LNER coaches were less lucky and always had printed windows (and the indignity of BR bogies on the last ones). Even though the prototype (they do have one!) was only 52'6" long, the models are still too short*. For some reason they stopped making the articulated unit after the war and split it into Bk/3rd and full 3rd. The latter is quite rare as the post war sets have a 1st/3rd and Bk/3rd. The 3rd never made it into BR livery, so my idea of making a BR artic. set has hit a problem. Meccano Ltd. carefully put the panelling on these, but as the real thing is a steel coach , I doubt BR went to the trouble. (The LNER did, so the tinplate faux panelling is actually correct for once. One could cut out the windows, but no.... )

 

* I have a theory that the original intention was to make the range in H0 scale, which would explain the undersize driving wheels and the wheelbase of the N2 which measures almost spot on H0. There would have been a problem fitting in the vertical motor which probably accounts for the change. I have been shot down on this, as there is apparently no record, but then who records failures? Meccano, being an all imperial world, the scale is allegedly 5/32" to the foot and the gauge 5/8". The latter figure is 16mm and definitely incorrect, both by measurement and the aversion of Dublo stock to the Märklin 3 rail track I have which I believe is 16mm. Trix also state 16mm, but with their wheel standards the odd half millimetre is neither here nor there. I've never found out what the Trix back to back id supposed to be, but the Pullman car I bought today measures 13.1mm,12.4mm,12.4mm and 12.9mm. Dublo is supposed to be 14.2mm but some variation is to be found.

 

My daughter does say I go on too long. I blame writing essays at school. One has to learn to pad things out.

 

 

 

[Il Grifone]

More waffle triggered by the above....

 

The Dublo Low sided wagon is a weird beast and the design department must really have been having an off day. The number B459325 belongs to a medium (i.e. 3 plank) goods wagon  (so it starts off wrong *) 17'6" over headstocks and 10' 0" wheelbase. That is the wagon underframe they already had! The proper CONFLAT was the same length and the standard container was 16 feet long to fit on this, so they could easily have made it to scale, but decided to make theirs overlength for some reason, The new die for the underframe casting must have cost a fortune and they must have wasted a lot of material with this totally pointless exercise. (6mm of wood moulding per container adds up on a production of many thousands.) And we would have been saved the ridiculous Dublo Dinky Bedford Flat Lorry. I didn't buy one at the time because it offended my youthful eye! (I have one now of course, but....) They can only be partly excused by the Morestone container being even longer.

 

Then they could have used this underframe for the SD6 cattle truck and made the underframe for the grain wagon the right length, instead of the compromise which is wrong for both.

 

With management decisions like this, it's no wonder they became Tri-ang/Hornby. (Going ring-field motor and diesel mad in the sixties didn't help either. (A huge magnet hanging out of the cab does not encourage sales of your model, leaving aside the retooling costs for two perfectly good models and they could have used the A4 chassis for the West Country with just a spot of Lines Bros. ingenuity. The ringfields were/are impressively powerful, but very few had the space or the stock to utilise it. My 1/2" 8F would handle all my wagons!

 

* I've never found out what M486 was. I think they must have made it up.

 

[Il Grifone]

Posted twice! Don't ask me how, I just clicked on the button.

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Il Grifone
Duplication of post

[robmcg]

Interesting about the rarity of the all-third Gresley 'teak' coach, I had wondered why one for sale here was already over £25  with two others of more common types included in the price.

 

I'm surprised that plastic wheels on later three-rail H-D stuff is considered better.  Far too modern. And H-D could no longer say with pride, 'all metal construction'.  .

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by robmcg