NCE Power Cab

[JM2015]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I have a NCE power cab control and for the most part it works very well, the problem I have is two fold first I don't have a separate programme track  ( program on main or program track , take everything off before doing this )  away from the layout, and second it used to read ( the power cab control ) the chips manufacturers number but this now stays at 255 regardless of the chip. You can programme and reset the chip if necessary and it all works how it should do, but the short number is 255 and the long number is @383 which you can change to your selected number and the locomotives work, any ideas on this would be most helpful.

 

thank you.

 

Jonathan Hall.

 

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Jon.

 

First, the program track. There is a relay that you can attach to the system to switch to a program track. There is one on ebay at the moment.

I know because I'm the one selling it.

 

Second problem. Sounds like two differing things. When you get 255 that sounds like it's indicating a chip by ESU. you can't change this. Press ENTER after this and you get the version number.

Pressing ENTER again and you are asked to activate a short code. Once you have activated a short code (3 - 126) it will ask you to activate a long code. This is where you can enter a 4 digit loco number.

 

Is this your problem or something else?

 

Dave Smith

 

PS. Have you checked your flat lead for a broken wire?

Edited July 30, 2018 by dasatcopthorne

[JM2015]

Hi Jon.

 

First, the program track. There is a relay that you can attach to the system to switch to a program track. There is one on ebay at the moment.

I know because I'm the one selling it.

 

Second problem. Sounds like two differing things. When you get 255 that sounds like it's indicating a chip by ESU. you can't change this. Press ENTER after this and you get the version number.

Pressing ENTER again and you are asked to activate a short code. Once you have activated a short code (3 - 126) it will ask you to activate a long code. This is where you can enter a 4 digit loco number.

 

Is this your problem or something else?

 

Dave Smith

 

PS. Have you checked your flat lead for a broken wire?

 

Hi Dave,

 

first of thank you for your reply. I can't see any wires broken on the flat lead although there is a slight bend in the top and bottom of the lead. I do have a Heljan 58 which I think has a ESU sound decoder but I haven't used that locomotive for a long time. I can enter a short number and long they work, but the power cab is not reading the chip correctly for some reason because it reads 255 for everything whether  its a Zimo mx600r or DCC concepts chip etc.

 

About the program track relay how does wire into to the existing set up with the NCE power cab?

 

Jonathan Hall.

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Dave,

 

first of thank you for your reply. I can't see any wires broken on the flat lead although there is a slight bend in the top and bottom of the lead. I do have a Heljan 58 which I think has a ESU sound decoder but I haven't used that locomotive for a long time. I can enter a short number and long they work, but the power cab is not reading the chip correctly for some reason because it reads 255 for everything whether  its a Zimo mx600r or DCC concepts chip etc.

 

About the program track relay how does wire into to the existing set up with the NCE power cab?

 

Jonathan Hall.

 

Jon.

 

Here is the relevant page from the Power Cab handbook.

 

Of course, the program track can be anywhere.

 

 

Dave

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by dasatcopthorne

[dasatcopthorne]

Jon.

 

Are you reading chips in a locos (with motor connected) on you main track or using your track as a 'programming track'?

 

Can you explain the keys you press to read the chips?

 

 

Dave

[JM2015]

Jon.

 

Are you reading chips in a locos (with motor connected) on you main track or using your track as a 'programming track'?

 

Can you explain the keys you press to read the chips?

 

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

I am reading the chips on the main ( but making sure everything has been taken off locos and coaches ) then press prog/esc 4 times until you get to Use program track, press enter then you have  8  options,

 

1-STD 2-CV 3-REG 4-PAGED 5- DIRECT 6- NCE EFFECTS 7- RECOVERY Program  8 - DECODER UNLOCK.

 

Usually I press 1  then it reads manufacturer 255 press enter again it then says DIR MODE decoder ver: 255 press enter again, Active ADR: LONG, SETUP ADDR 1=yes press one and then Short ADR: comes up as 255. at this point I change it 3 which it accepts, then it says activate this address? 1= yes which is what I do. set up address -LONG which then reads @383 at this point you can type in the engine number say 7672 which will be accepted,( but this configuration always occurs  @383 ) then press enter activate this address? 1 = yes then after that you can choose to set CFG ENTER =NO 1 =yes you then press enter 4 times which is NO and then it returns you to PROG TRK  option then press esc and the locomotive will work. 

 

I have a mixture of chips from Bachmann, DCC Concepts zen eight pin and Nano, and Gaugemaster and then Zimo mx600r.

 

I hope this information is useful to you, anything else you need to know just ask,

 

many thanks for your help with this subject.

 

Jonathan.

[RAF96]

You could set up a programming track by way of a centre off DPDT switch then when programming flip over to a short length of track, which will save having to denude the main each time.

 

Rob

[JM2015]

You could set up a programming track by way of a centre off DPDT switch then when programming flip over to a short length of track, which will save having to denude the main each time.

 

Rob

 

Hi Rob,

 

thank you for your advice, how does the DPDT switch wire into a NCE Power Cab system or is a standalone item that you wire separately? I really don't know a lot about electrics and switches and its a bit new to me.

[JM2015]

Hi Rob,

 

thank you for your advice, how does the DPDT switch wire into a NCE Power Cab system or is a standalone item that you wire separately? I really don't know a lot about electrics and switches and its a bit new to me.

Hi Again,

 

I have just seen your link I will have a look. thank you.

[JM2015]

Jon.

 

Here is the relevant page from the Power Cab handbook.

 

Of course, the program track can be anywhere.

 

 

Dave

 

 

PowerCab AutoSwitch page.jpg

Hi Dave,

 

sorry I have only just seen this post, thank you for posting it.

 

Jonathan.

[JM2015]

Hi Dave,

 

sorry I have only just seen this post, thank you for posting it.

 

Jonathan.

Hi again Dave, I shall let you know how I get on thank you for your help and the post from the power cab booklet.

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Dave,

 

I am reading the chips on the main ( but making sure everything has been taken off locos and coaches ) then press prog/esc 4 times until you get to Use program track, press enter then you have  8  options,

 

1-STD 2-CV 3-REG 4-PAGED 5- DIRECT 6- NCE EFFECTS 7- RECOVERY Program  8 - DECODER UNLOCK.

 

Usually I press 1  then it reads manufacturer 255 press enter again it then says DIR MODE decoder ver: 255 press enter again, Active ADR: LONG, SETUP ADDR 1=yes press one and then Short ADR: comes up as 255. at this point I change it 3 which it accepts, then it says activate this address? 1= yes which is what I do. set up address -LONG which then reads @383 at this point you can type in the engine number say 7672 which will be accepted,( but this configuration always occurs  @383 ) then press enter activate this address? 1 = yes then after that you can choose to set CFG ENTER =NO 1 =yes you then press enter 4 times which is NO and then it returns you to PROG TRK  option then press esc and the locomotive will work. 

 

I have a mixture of chips from Bachmann, DCC Concepts zen eight pin and Nano, and Gaugemaster and then Zimo mx600r.

 

I hope this information is useful to you, anything else you need to know just ask,

 

many thanks for your help with this subject.

 

Jonathan.

 

Jon.

 

Here's my version:

 

press the following buttons.

 

PROG/ESC

4

1

then it reads manufacturer. ESU = 151

ENTER

then it reads the version number. ESU = 255

ENTER

Says 'Active ADR: LONG'

Says 'SETUP ADDR 1=YES'

press 1

press 3 for the short address of 3

 

Then activate long address.

 

When you get the screen ' SET CFG?'  press PROG/ESC.

 

 

Try the same over again and if @383 is in the long address again, use the thumbwheel either up or down to blank this and enter your 4 fig number. Activate this and press PROG/ESC.

 

Hope this works.

 

Dave

[birdseyecircus]

Regarding the programming track I have simply used two crocodile clips on the end of the wires from the interface plate.

These either clip on to the bus wires for the layout or on to a short length of flexi track for programming, Saving removing several locos from the layout.

 

Paul

[JM2015]

Regarding the programming track I have simply used two crocodile clips on the end of the wires from the interface plate.

These either clip on to the bus wires for the layout or on to a short length of flexi track for programming, Saving removing several locos from the layout.

 

Paul

 

Thanks for the tip Paul that sounds very useful.

[JM2015]

Jon.

 

Here's my version:

 

press the following buttons.

 

PROG/ESC

4

1

then it reads manufacturer. ESU = 151

ENTER

then it reads the version number. ESU = 255

ENTER

Says 'Active ADR: LONG'

Says 'SETUP ADDR 1=YES'

press 1

press 3 for the short address of 3

 

Then activate long address.

 

When you get the screen ' SET CFG?'  press PROG/ESC.

 

 

Try the same over again and if @383 is in the long address again, use the thumbwheel either up or down to blank this and enter your 4 fig number. Activate this and press PROG/ESC.

 

Hope this works.

 

Dave

Morning Dave,

 

A partial result for you as follows, I followed your instructions  and got rid of @383 by moving the wheel as you said,  and then would get 4 : : : :   those would go if you move the wheel again. As for Manufacturer it still reads 255 and the same for decoder version 255 and short address 255, but you can change short address 3 and long to any number of your choice. I reprogrammed six locomotives late last night and all were 255 at the start which was changed to their loco numbers. Not sure why 255 keeps coming up for reading, any other ideas as to why this is happening? 

 

thank you,

 

Jonathan.

[dasatcopthorne]

Morning Dave,

 

A partial result for you as follows, I followed your instructions  and got rid of @383 by moving the wheel as you said,  and then would get 4 : : : :   those would go if you move the wheel again. As for Manufacturer it still reads 255 and the same for decoder version 255 and short address 255, but you can change short address 3 and long to any number of your choice. I reprogrammed six locomotives late last night and all were 255 at the start which was changed to their loco numbers. Not sure why 255 keeps coming up for reading, any other ideas as to why this is happening? 

 

thank you,

 

Jonathan.

 

 

Mmmmmm. Strange.

 

I don't have an answer but have you thought of joining the NCE-DCC Group on Groups.io?

 

One tip for chips.

 

When you get a new one, record the numbers in the following CVs for future reference;

 

CV2, 3, 4 ,5, 6, 63, 64, 65.

Lastly record alos CV53 and whether you have used the 'tuning' effect or not.

 

When you change any CV, record the new numbers but keep the old ones on file.

 

This will enable you to return the chip to the setting it had before your changes.

 

I've attached the MS Word grid I use.

 

Dave

[ELTEL]

You could set up a programming track by way of a centre off DPDT switch then when programming flip over to a short length of track, which will save having to denude the main each time.

Rob

Yes that’s what I intend doing on layouts that I don’t have space for separate track in my fiddleyard.

 

Eltel

[JM2015]

Mmmmmm. Strange.

 

I don't have an answer but have you thought of joining the NCE-DCC Group on Groups.io?

 

One tip for chips.

 

When you get a new one, record the numbers in the following CVs for future reference;

 

CV2, 3, 4 ,5, 6, 63, 64, 65.

Lastly record alos CV53 and whether you have used the 'tuning' effect or not.

 

When you change any CV, record the new numbers but keep the old ones on file.

 

This will enable you to return the chip to the setting it had before your changes.

 

I've attached the MS Word grid I use.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

thanks for your help and time with all of this, I shall keep a note of these cv's,  and will also get the extra unit to program the track separately, I can not see where you have attached the MS Word grid you use? Thanks again.

 

Jonathan.

Edited August 2, 2018 by JM2015

[dasatcopthorne]

Dave,

 

thanks for your help and time with all of this, I shall keep a note of these cv's,  and will also get the extra unit to program the track separately. 

 

Jon.

 

If you want my 'Switch' I'll take it off ebay and you can have it post free if you pay £15 PayPal f&f.

 

Let me know.

 

Dave

[dasatcopthorne]

Jon.

 

Read here;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74333-help-identifying-decoder-manufacturer-id-255/

 

and

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/loco-cv-settings-all-display-255-as-a-value/?p=1

 

and

 

https://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28606

 

Dave.

Edited August 2, 2018 by dasatcopthorne

[JM2015]

Jon.

 

If you want my 'Switch' I'll take it off ebay and you can have it post free if you pay £15 PayPal f&f.

 

Let me know.

 

Dave

 

HI Dave, 

 

Yes please that would be great thank you send me you details and I will pay you via PayPal.

 

I was having car issues yesterday thats why its taken so long to reply sorry.

 

Thank you,

 

Jonathan.

Edited August 3, 2018 by JM2015

[JM2015]

Dave,

 

thanks for your help and time with all of this, I shall keep a note of these cv's,  and will also get the extra unit to program the track separately, I can not see where you have attached the MS Word grid you use? Thanks again.

 

Jonathan.

 

Dave,

 

I have solved the the problem of 255 via help from you and io who you recommended in a earlier post.

 

Bear with me for a little while, my layout is 10ft long by 3ft wide with one continuous circle and a passing loop and a siding at the front of the layout. As it goes round the back has four sidings three off a three way point which all work well.

 

The problem turned out be the Six Train Tech DCC signals I had on the layout as  I think they were drawing to much power from the power cab combined with 4 locos on the track not all running only two at most and thats only for a short time.

 

I Took off all six signals placed a locomotive on the track, read the chip and it read correctly.

 

For example;

 

Dapol class 73 6039 MF 65 DEC 035

 

Bachmann class 03 D2016 with sound MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 101 5117 No sound  MF141 DEC 081

 

Heljan class 58 030 with sound   MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 66 135 No sound MF 000 DEC 037

 

Hornby class 31 5512 No sound  MF048 DEC 133

 

So as you can see I can now read the chips correctly, so I thinking I need a separate power supply for the Train Tech signals as it is too much for the power cab to handle?

 

I hope this information is useful to our fellow Modellers.

 

Jonathan.

Edited August 3, 2018 by JM2015

[dasatcopthorne]

Dave,

 

I have solved the the problem of 255 via help from you and io who you recommended in a earlier post.

 

Bear with me for a little while, my layout is 10ft long by 3ft wide with one continuous circle and a passing loop and a siding at the front of the layout. As it goes round the back has four sidings three off a three way point which all work well.

 

The problem turned out be the Six Train Tech DCC signals I had on the layout as  I think they were drawing to much power from the power cab combined with 4 locos on the track not all running only two at most and thats only for a short time.

 

I Took off all six signals placed a locomotive on the track, read the chip and it read correctly.

 

For example;

 

Dapol class 73 6039 MF 65 DEC 035

 

Bachmann class 03 D2016 with sound MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 101 5117 No sound  MF141 DEC 081

 

Heljan class 58 030 with sound   MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 66 135 No sound MF 000 DEC 037

 

Hornby class 31 5512 No sound  MF048 DEC 133

 

So as you can see I can now read the chips correctly, so I thinking I need a separate power supply for the Train Tech signals as it is too much for the power cab to handle?

 

I hope this information is useful to our fellow Modellers.

 

Jonathan.

Thanks for the solution Jon.

 

I'll bank the info in case anyone else comes up against a similar situation.

 

I suppose the signals could run from a DC supply. MERG do a kit for an LED dimmer if you have a 12v supply.

 

Best of luck with the layout. Expect to see it at Lyddrail 2019!!

 

Glad to help.

 

Dave.

[Mallard60022]

Dave,

 

I have solved the the problem of 255 via help from you and io who you recommended in a earlier post.

 

Bear with me for a little while, my layout is 10ft long by 3ft wide with one continuous circle and a passing loop and a siding at the front of the layout. As it goes round the back has four sidings three off a three way point which all work well.

 

The problem turned out be the Six Train Tech DCC signals I had on the layout as  I think they were drawing to much power from the power cab combined with 4 locos on the track not all running only two at most and thats only for a short time.

 

I Took off all six signals placed a locomotive on the track, read the chip and it read correctly.

 

For example;

 

Dapol class 73 6039 MF 65 DEC 035

 

Bachmann class 03 D2016 with sound MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 101 5117 No sound  MF141 DEC 081

 

Heljan class 58 030 with sound   MF 151 DEC 255

 

Bachmann class 66 135 No sound MF 000 DEC 037

 

Hornby class 31 5512 No sound  MF048 DEC 133

 

So as you can see I can now read the chips correctly, so I thinking I need a separate power supply for the Train Tech signals as it is too much for the power cab to handle?

 

I hope this information is useful to our fellow Modellers.

 

Jonathan.

Yes Jonathan, you have 'discovered the weak spot' of the Power Cab in that it does not have a lot of 'power'. Once one starts to use things like juicers and, as you have, Train Tech items.as well as point motors and other DCC gismos, the Cab gets messed up. Have you got the upgraded NCE power supply (for Power Cab), that is 13.5 V @ 1.8A or an equivalent, regulated supply such as a PC charger (loads available with all sorts of power outputs)? 

Using a separate Accessories BUS is a very good idea.

Phil

[Nigelcliffe]

The problem reading things was not "too much power", but "other devices on the track at the same time".    This is another reason why using a layout as the programming track is a bad idea.

 

Your CR signals are on the programming track whilst programming.  So, the programming pulses are now coming from the loco (wanted) and some signals (not wanted), and not surprisingly the PowerCab can't make head-nor-tail of the results.      It will still be able to do "programming on the main" as that doesn't require any reading of the decoder, its just issuing instructions to a specific decoder (eg. "Decoder 159, change CV192 to value 57").

 

Fitting the "programming track switch" (discussed earlier in the thread) and doing the programming on an isolated bit of track somewhere will fix that specific problem.