Is Rubery in the Black Country? Consensus is, definitely not.

[Compound2632]

In an ongoing side-debate in the Castle Aching topic, the status of Rubery is being hotly debated. Now in the West Midlands, it was formerly in Worcestershire. Noted for nail-making, I'd thought of it as being in that formerly highly industrialised region between Birmingham and Wolverhampton known as the Black Country but this is disputed.

 

Are there any present or former Rubery-ites on here able or willing to provide a definitive answer?

Edited August 16, 2018 by Compound2632

[Jon4470]

In an ongoing side-debate in the Castle Aching topic, the status of Rubery is being hotly debated. Now in the West Midlands, it was formerly in Worcestershire. Noted for nail-making, I'd thought of it as being in that formerly highly industrialised region between Birmingham and Wolverhampton known as the Black Country but this is disputed.

 

Are there any present or former Rubery-ites on here able or willing to provide a definitive answer?

 

I lived there in the 1980’s. It’s on the A38 in the south west “corner” of Birmingham. I would never have described it as the Black Country - which I think starts in the north west of Birmingham and runs up to Wolverhampton. This is not quite definitive but I would be really surprised if it was ever described as part of the Black Country ( also never saw a pint of Bathams bitter in Rubery!)

[Clearwater]

I grew up in Stourbridge - I wouldn’t see Rubery as Black Country. I’d see Clent as a natural boundary. The Black Country is more centred on Dudley and definitely does not include Birmingham...

[melmerby]

In an ongoing side-debate in the Castle Aching topic, the status of Rubery is being hotly debated. Now in the West Midlands, it was formerly in Worcestershire. Noted for nail-making, I'd thought of it as being in that formerly highly industrialised region between Birmingham and Wolverhampton known as the Black Country but this is disputed.

 

Are there any present or former Rubery-ites on here able or willing to provide a definitive answer?

Rubery (proper) is definitely not in the West Midlands

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery

 

The boundary is near the Eastern end of the flyover and is in the same place now as it was in 1948 and earlier

Now:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=399500&y=277500&z=120&sv=rubery&st=3&tl=Map+of+Rubery,+Birmingham+[City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf

 

1948

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101584909

 

The adjacent area in Birmingham that was built up post war also took the name Rubery but there AFAIK hasn't been any major boundary changes.

 

Keith

Edited August 16, 2018 by melmerby

[Giles]

When I was a child in the '60s we lived in Rubery, where Dad was Curate at St Chads. Worcestershire, not Black Country.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Giles

[brigo]

In an ongoing side-debate in the Castle Aching topic, the status of Rubery is being hotly debated. Now in the West Midlands, it was formerly in Worcestershire. Noted for nail-making, I'd thought of it as being in that formerly highly industrialised region between Birmingham and Wolverhampton known as the Black Country but this is disputed.

 

Are there any present or former Rubery-ites on here able or willing to provide a definitive answer?

 

Rubery, although it merges with Rednal, is still in Worcestershire and comes under Bromsgrove district. My late wife was born and lived there.

 

Rubery was mainly a rural community although there was quarrying and a couple of brick and tile works, but no metal working trade. At Rubery station there was a rail connected quarry, although this may have been in connection with the branch to Frankley where Birmingham were building the waterworks.

 

Definitely too far south to be considered part of the Black Country.

 

Brian

[sp1]

I would consider the following to comprise the Black Country (the scope of which is still debated!):

Tipton, Dudley, Brierley Hill, Pensnett, Kingswinford, Wordsley, Amblecote, Stourbridge, Lye, Old Hill, Cradley Heath, Rowley Regis and Halesowen (parts of it - some of Halesowen was, and parts still is, quiet rural/ agricultural), Gornal and Sedgley.

Places like Clent, Hagley, Himley definitely not, and I don’t consider Wolverhampton part of the Black Country- others do!

These areas are nearly all in Staffordshire: Dudley is an anomaly, being an island of Worcestershire. A similar anomaly which is not often realised is Amblecote, which was in Staffordshire but was part of the parish of Old Swinford which was in Worcestershire ( Old Swinford also included the parishes of Stourbridge and Lye etc, also in Worcestershire.

The area is characterised by nail making, coal mines (I have seen old maps showing mines in Brierley Hill high Street!, glassmaking etc. Notably the area I have described sits on top of the Staffordshire 10 yard/ 30 foot coal seam.

Edited August 16, 2018 by sp1

[Compound2632]

Thanks all - clearly I was in error in suggesting it might be!

[TheSignalEngineer]

When I was a child in the '60s we lived in Rubery, where Dad was Curate at St Chads. Worcestershire, not Black Country.

When my Dad had a career change after drawing his Fire Brigade pension his first posting was Curate at St Chads.

Did you live in a house along New Road?

Edited August 16, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[wombatofludham]

I would consider the following to comprise the Black Country (the scope of which is still debated!):

Tipton, Dudley, Brierley Hill, Pensnett, Kingswinford, Wordsley, Amblecote, Stourbridge, Lye, Old Hill, Cradley Heath, Rowley Regis and Halesowen (parts of it - some of Halesowen was, and parts still is, quiet rural/ agricultural), Gornal and Sedgley.

Places like Clent, Hagley, Himley definitely not, and I don’t consider Wolverhampton part of the Black Country- others do!

These areas are nearly all in Staffordshire: Dudley is an anomaly, being an island of Worcestershire. A similar anomaly which is not often realised is Amblecote, which was in Staffordshire but was part of the parish of Old Swinford which was in Worcestershire ( Old Swinford also included the parishes of Stourbridge and Lye etc, also in Worcestershire.

The area is characterised by nail making, coal mines (I have seen old maps showing mines in Brierley Hill high Street!, glassmaking etc. Notably the area I have described sits on top of the Staffordshire 10 yard/ 30 foot coal seam.

 

That broadly agrees with what I have understood was the Black Country although most descriptions also include Darlaston and Wednesbury (the Wiles family all hail from Darlaston and my grandad definitely was Black Country, even speaking the dialect) but definitely exclude Wolverhampton and Walsall despite attempts by both places to try and cash in on the revitalised awareness of the Black Country and it's unique culture recently.  So, whilst I was personally born in the Manor Workhouse in Walsall, and therefore not born in the Black Country, being descended from a line of Black Country pawnbrokers and metalworkers I can claim Black Country roots!

[Clearwater]

I would consider the following to comprise the Black Country (the scope of which is still debated!):

A similar anomaly which is not often realised is Amblecote, which was in Staffordshire but was part of the parish of Old Swinford which was in Worcestershire ( Old Swinford also included the parishes of Stourbridge and Lye etc, also in Worcestershire.

 

I share that area dysphoria. I was born in Wordsley, Staffordshire. Lived in Stourbridge so Worcestershire, educated in Warwickshire. Consequently I feel no real County affiliation although I'd describe myself as from the Black Country or a West Midlander. However I've never felt myself to be a Brummie.

[Chris M]

I would consider the following to comprise the Black Country (the scope of which is still debated!):

Tipton, Dudley, Brierley Hill, Pensnett, Kingswinford, Wordsley, Amblecote, Stourbridge, Lye, Old Hill, Cradley Heath, Rowley Regis and Halesowen (parts of it - some of Halesowen was, and parts still is, quiet rural/ agricultural), Gornal and Sedgley.

Places like Clent, Hagley, Himley definitely not, and I don’t consider Wolverhampton part of the Black Country- others do!

These areas are nearly all in Staffordshire: Dudley is an anomaly, being an island of Worcestershire. A similar anomaly which is not often realised is Amblecote, which was in Staffordshire but was part of the parish of Old Swinford which was in Worcestershire ( Old Swinford also included the parishes of Stourbridge and Lye etc, also in Worcestershire.

The area is characterised by nail making, coal mines (I have seen old maps showing mines in Brierley Hill high Street!, glassmaking etc. Notably the area I have described sits on top of the Staffordshire 10 yard/ 30 foot coal seam.

What about Smerrick? I would say it is much more Black Country than Brummie albeit border country.

[melmerby]

What about Smerrick? I would say it is much more Black Country than Brummie albeit border country.

This is a quote from "Where is the Black Country" (BBC)

Also quoted by Wikipedia.

 

"To traditionalists the Black Country is the area where the 30ft coal seam comes to the surface - so West Bromwich, Oldbury, Blackheath, Cradley Heath, Old Hill, Bilston, Dudley, Tipton, Wednesfield and parts of Halesowen, Wednesbury and Walsall but not Wolverhampton, Stourbridge and Smethwick or what used to be known as Warley."

 

Keith

Edited August 17, 2018 by melmerby

[Edwardian]

Wednesbury

 

The very definition of unreasonableness!

[Chris M]

Warley has always been too posh to be Black Country but I would include Stourbridge and Smerrick as being part of it, at least in spirit.

 

The capital of the Black Country must be Dudley - it’s the only place with a castle!

 

A Brummie once said “ You can always tell a Black Country bloke because is standing round with his hands in his pockets.” The Black Country bloke he was speaking to said “and yow can always tell a Brummmie coz he’s got his hands in someone else’s pockets”. So maybe that’s how you tell whether a place is in the Black Country or not.

 

Apologies for the thread drift.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Chris M

[John_Hughes]

This is a quote from "Where is the Black Country" (BBC)

Also quoted by Wikipedia.

 

"To traditionalists the Black Country is the area where the 30ft coal seam comes to the surface - so West Bromwich, Oldbury, Blackheath, Cradley Heath, Old Hill, Bilston, Dudley, Tipton, Wednesfield and parts of Halesowen, Wednesbury and Walsall but not Wolverhampton, Stourbridge and Smethwick or what used to be known as Warley."

 

Keith

 

Certainly the BC does include Oldbury and Langley; SWMBO is from Langley and a Black Country lass for sure, especially when she dials the dialect up to Max. The so-called Black Country dialect actually varies from one little settlement to another quite as much as Prof. Higgins' London dialects do; there was a time when I could tell the difference between Smethwick and Swan Village within a sentence or two, but not any more.

[sp1]

Certainly the BC does include Oldbury and Langley; SWMBO is from Langley and a Black Country lass for sure, especially when she dials the dialect up to Max. The so-called Black Country dialect actually varies from one little settlement to another quite as much as Prof. Higgins' London dialects do; there was a time when I could tell the difference between Smethwick and Swan Village within a sentence or two, but not any more.

I can tell the difference in dialect among older people but alas I think the variations in speech are dying with them.

[giz]

Certainly the BC does include Oldbury and Langley; SWMBO is from Langley and a Black Country lass for sure, especially when she dials the dialect up to Max. The so-called Black Country dialect actually varies from one little settlement to another quite as much as Prof. Higgins' London dialects do; there was a time when I could tell the difference between Smethwick and Swan Village within a sentence or two, but not any more.

In the office where I work (Dudley) there is a lad from Oldbury and another from Sedgley who have trouble understanding each other at times.

 

I've lived in the area for 15 years now and can pick up the differences, as you say, a few miles is all it takes.

 

I don't think most of the residents of Wolverhampton consider themselves as Black Country, the absence of Black Country flags on display is noticeable compared to Dudley.

[Compound2632]

I don't think most of the residents of Wolverhampton consider themselves as Black Country, the absence of Black Country flags on display is noticeable compared to Dudley.

 

The Black Country is certainly the area between Birmingham and Wolverhampton; the question is how far north and south it extends - not into Worcestershire as it stood in 1974, but anciently Dudley, Stourbridge, etc. were; and not so far into Staffs as to include the Cannock Chase coalfield.

 

Flag of the Black Country - I had to look that up:

 

[Dave47549]

.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[TheSignalEngineer]

A couple of ladies working on our office came Dudley and Wednesbury. Very useful for getting the order right at lunch time except in Lye where the Wednesbury girl was completely flummoxed.

[Giles]

When my Dad had a career change after drawing his Fire Brigade pension his first posting was Curate at St Chads.

Did you live in a house along New Road?

We did indeed.... 96 New Road....

 

Extraordinary coincidence! One might assume that it's the same house? There was a sort of Dance Hall next door at the time, and a Butchers just a little further up.

 

I shouldn't think Rubery has changed so very much, except for expansion.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Giles

[Andy Y]

I thought I'd drag out my definitive arbitrary map of worr'iz and worr'ay the Black Country (from a conversation a few years ago).

 

It's taken from an outsider's perspective, albeit one who's spent a lot of time with businesses and residents therein, and is a mixture of geology, history, industry, a certain feel about placesand to what degree the native can be understood by the outsider and vice versa.

 

The green 'ay the Black Country - tha's sumweer ulse.

 

Sum bits am more Black Country than uthers, even in the Black Country; and sum bits ay.

 

Them bits which definitely am are more red than uthers; yow wor understand 'um.

 

 

Feel free to disagree, it'll never be defined.

[wombatofludham]

The very definition of unreasonableness!

 

Nothing wrong with Wednesbury.  Having been researching my family tree over the summer, I've found relatives and ancestors from all over the Black Country from Sedgley and Dudley to Wednesbury and Darlaston, but suddenly the previous generation all seem to come from the former iron areas of Shropshire, such as Dawley and Oakengates, clearly having moved to the Black Country as the Shropshire ironworks closed.  Others appear to have been rural workers from Oswestry and Ruyton XI Towns who must have moved to the Black Country as many rural workers did for work, mirroring the progress of the Industrial Revolution.

 

Mind you, one branch of my maternal family which came from North Staffordshire ended up with a first cousin, three times removed, who was the station master at Stone Station on the outbreak of war in 1939.  Also, possibly, I'm the 7x great nephew of Josiah Wedgwood, which I will claim as then I can blag 86 236 as a family loco and a suitable rename for one of my Heljan models...

[Quarryscapes]

I would consider the following to comprise the Black Country (the scope of which is still debated!):

Tipton, Dudley, Brierley Hill, Pensnett, Kingswinford, Wordsley, Amblecote, Stourbridge, Lye, Old Hill, Cradley Heath, Rowley Regis and Halesowen (parts of it - some of Halesowen was, and parts still is, quiet rural/ agricultural), Gornal and Sedgley.

Places like Clent, Hagley, Himley definitely not, and I don’t consider Wolverhampton part of the Black Country- others do!

These areas are nearly all in Staffordshire: Dudley is an anomaly, being an island of Worcestershire. A similar anomaly which is not often realised is Amblecote, which was in Staffordshire but was part of the parish of Old Swinford which was in Worcestershire ( Old Swinford also included the parishes of Stourbridge and Lye etc, also in Worcestershire.

The area is characterised by nail making, coal mines (I have seen old maps showing mines in Brierley Hill high Street!, glassmaking etc. Notably the area I have described sits on top of the Staffordshire 10 yard/ 30 foot coal seam.

 

This is the exact impression I've formed too from talking to my Black Country relatives. They don't half get offended if I call them brummies.    

 

This actually came up at work today, where I spent a good few minutes explaining the proper pronunciation of water, peas and wasps as established by Granddad Joe of Netherton. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Quarryscapes