Class 90's at Cambridge?

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Hello all,

 

When I was looking at photos of Cambridge station I came across a photo of a class 90 with a container train. So my question(s) are: Was this a regular sight?  Were there any other liveries than RfD? What container wagons did it haul? I know there were class 86's and I believe a class 84 at one point as well. Also, were there any other electric locos other than those that visited and if so, what livery and number?.

 

Link for the image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/52087249@N07/8534836448/in/album-72157632935569242/

 

Best regards, Matthew

[TravisM]

As Cambridge wasn’t electrified until 1988, the earlier classes of electric loco’s probably never appeared. The Class 82’s and 83’s were withdrawn in 1983 except for four used for ECS out of Euston and the Class 84’s were all gone by 1980. The Class 84 your talking about was probably the mobile load bank converted from 84009 that was used for testing the OHLE.

 

Class 86’s were used on the Liverpool St - Kings Lynn services, so the only other class of electrics you’d have seen was the 90’s but I’m unsure why they would be there as the wires only continued to Kings Lynn, not east or west. I believe a Class 91 and Mk IV set appeared at Cambridge once.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the info. The class 84 was 84009 which was the one you said. I'm now getting layout ideas... I didn't realise a class 91 went to Cambridge, must've been a special.

 

Best regards, Matthew

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

What about hst's? Did they visit?

[TravisM]

Hi,

Many thanks for the info. The class 84 was 84009 which was the one you said. I'm now getting layout ideas... I didn't realise a class 91 went to Cambridge, must've been a special.

Best regards, Matthew

I believe the Class 91 and stock was for promotional reasons but I could be wrong. I’ve never seen or heard about a HST being at Cambridge but again I could be wrong.

[31A]

From my memory of living in a flat overlooking Cambridge station in the 1980s and also working there, there were one or two occasions when diverted container trains were worked to Cambridge by electric locos from the London direction and changed there to diesel traction to continue northwards.  I can't remember the exact circumstances, but think it was something to do with the Norwich main line being blocked by engineering work north of Ipswich so trains from Felixstowe (or maybe Harwich?) were worked via the North London line and from there to Cambridge.

[31A]

I believe the Class 91 and stock was for promotional reasons but I could be wrong. I’ve never seen or heard about a HST being at Cambridge but again I could be wrong.

HSTs were not uncommon at weekends in the 1980s when the ECML was blocked south of Hitchin and trains from King's Cross to the north were diverted via Cambridge, but when the Royston-Cambridge line was electrified it was 'on the cheap' and the power supply wasn't robust enough to allow Class 91s to work over it in normal circumstances.  I believe they could work to Cambridge under special arrangements, such as being the only electric train in the Royston-Cambridge electrical section at the time, so they didn't usually work to Cambridge under their own power.  If there were any ECML engineering work diversions via Cambridge post electrification they would probably have been 'dragged' from London to Peterborough with the diesel loco detached there.

[31A]

PS just had another look at the Flickr photo linked by the OP and think a clue is in the title, in that the picture was taken on 17.11.91.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

HSTs were not uncommon at weekends in the 1980s when the ECML was blocked south of Hitchin and trains from King's Cross to the north were diverted via Cambridge, but when the Royston-Cambridge line was electrified it was 'on the cheap' and the power supply wasn't robust enough to allow Class 91s to work over it in normal circumstances.  I believe they could work to Cambridge under special arrangements, such as being the only electric train in the Royston-Cambridge electrical section at the time, so they didn't usually work to Cambridge under their own power.  If there were any ECML engineering work diversions via Cambridge post electrification they would probably have been 'dragged' from London to Peterborough with the diesel loco detached there.

Hi 31A,

 

So would the class 91's be dragged from kings cross with a class 47 or whatever it was (I would like to know), and then run under their own power to kings Lynn and then get dragged by another diesel or would they run under their own power to Cambridge and then get dragged by a diesel. Regarding Hsts, would it have been the later swallow or executive liveries or the br blue livery? Apologies for making things complicated.

 

 

Best regards, Matthew

[TravisM]

Hi 31A,

So would the class 91's be dragged from kings cross with a class 47 or whatever it was (I would like to know), and then run under their own power to kings Lynn and then get dragged by another diesel or would they run under their own power to Cambridge and then get dragged by a diesel.

Class 91’s wouldn’t have worked to Kings Lynn as that was under Network SouthEast control. If a Class 91 and Mk IV stock was needing to be dragged via Cambridge, it would have gone via Ely, turned left and towards Peterborough via March.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Class 91’s wouldn’t have worked to Kings Lynn as that was under Network SouthEast control. If a Class 91 and Mk IV stock was needing to be dragged via Cambridge, it would have gone via Ely, turned left and towards Peterborough via March.

Ok, so it would go to Peterborough via Ely and March but would it at any point run under its own power (eg through Cambridge and up to Ely), or would it have had to have a hand from a diesel depending on when it went through as didn't the Feb line get electrified at a later date?

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Regarding electrics, what about the class 87 as if I remember correctly one was allocated to freight use (I think 87101) did that appear?

[russ p]

Officially electric locos are not allowed north of the Milton neutral section, but 86s have been to Ely at least once.

Not sure if any have made it to Lynn

[31A]

Hi 31A,

 

So would the class 91's be dragged from kings cross with a class 47 or whatever it was (I would like to know), and then run under their own power to kings Lynn and then get dragged by another diesel or would they run under their own power to Cambridge and then get dragged by a diesel. Regarding Hsts, would it have been the later swallow or executive liveries or the br blue livery? Apologies for making things complicated.

 

 

Best regards, Matthew

 

 

In the case of the diversions I was thinking of, the 91s were dragged (yes usually by Class 47s) from King's Cross via Hitchin-Royston-Cambridge-Ely-March to Peterborough from where they resumed their journey with electric power.  As Jools says, King's Lynn didn't come into it!  Not a question of whether under Network SouthEast or any other sector's control, purely the fact that the electrical supply wasn't designed for loco hauled trains.

 

HSTs would have been in whatever the current livery was at the time - ECML diversions via Cambridge have taken place for engineering work and other reasons from long before the introduction of HSTa up to (less frequently) the present day.

 

I seem to recall some diverted container trains being hauled by pairs of AC electrics as well as Class 90s but suspect they were Freightliner sector 86s rather than 87s.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

It would still be nice to pretend as if an 87 came through. After all that's rule 1

 

Best regards, Matthew

[Pete the Elaner]

It would still be nice to pretend as if an 87 came through. After all that's rule 1

 

Best regards, Matthew

Rule 1 can always be invoked.

or maybe one did appear there but nobody on here was aware of it?

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Rule 1 can always be invoked.

or maybe one did appear there but nobody on here was aware of it?

 

That is very true

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Officially electric locos are not allowed north of the Milton neutral section, but 86s have been to Ely at least once.

Not sure if any have made it to Lynn

 Hi Russ,

 

Do you know if they were hauling any rolling stock or were they light engine?

[russ p]

The one I know of the 86 Anglia farewell tour with I believe a rake of Anglia Mk3s

I believe there has been the odd occasion where an Anglia intercity set has worked to Cambridge possibly with a 90 and a diesel has hauled the train to Norwich.

I know it was talked about but not sure if it actually happened

[Pete the Elaner]

I remember reading that 86401 was painted into NSE for this line.

I thought that was a bit odd in the age of units & that EMUs would instead work from London to Cambridge then DMUs onwards to Kings Lynn.

Then when it moved swiftly back to the WCML, I assumed it was either for the publicity of electrifying the line or for a loco-hauled service which was intended but never introduced.

[31A]

86401 was indeed painted in NSE livery, but as far as I know only worked on the Liverpool St. - Cambridge line once, hauling the 'launch special'.  But other Class 86s hauled King's Lynn line trains between Liverpool St. and Cambridge, where they changed power to Class 47s for the rest of the journey.  This arrangement only lasted for a short while - something like two years - before it became EMU from Liverpool St. to Cambridge and DMU from there on.  It's something which seems to have faded from the collective memory, but I definitely remember walking past the stabling point in the late evening when there would be about 4 86s stabled there.  A driver I knew said he thought they weren't very suitable for stop / start work - as well as King's Lynns they were also used on some Cambridge-Liverpool Streets which stopped more often - plus of course there was the time penalty for the loco change which I seem to think was quite considerable, although having watched it I didn't see how it could be done more quickly than it was.

[stewartingram]

86401 was used on the Cobbler service to Northampton.

 

Stewart

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

The one I know of the 86 Anglia farewell tour with I believe a rake of Anglia Mk3s

I believe there has been the odd occasion where an Anglia intercity set has worked to Cambridge possibly with a 90 and a diesel has hauled the train to Norwich.

I know it was talked about but not sure if it actually happened

It would still be good to model it though, I never thought Cambridge station had so many diffrent locos all in the space of 30 years! Well, you learn something new everyday.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

86401 was indeed painted in NSE livery, but as far as I know only worked on the Liverpool St. - Cambridge line once, hauling the 'launch special'.  But other Class 86s hauled King's Lynn line trains between Liverpool St. and Cambridge, where they changed power to Class 47s for the rest of the journey.  This arrangement only lasted for a short while - something like two years - before it became EMU from Liverpool St. to Cambridge and DMU from there on.  It's something which seems to have faded from the collective memory, but I definitely remember walking past the stabling point in the late evening when there would be about 4 86s stabled there.  A driver I knew said he thought they weren't very suitable for stop / start work - as well as King's Lynns they were also used on some Cambridge-Liverpool Streets which stopped more often - plus of course there was the time penalty for the loco change which I seem to think was quite considerable, although having watched it I didn't see how it could be done more quickly than it was.

I also saw a photo of 86401 with a rake of NSE Mk1s or Mk2s and it had a headboard at the front which said "Cambridge goes Electric".

[stewartingram]

Another oddity - class 319 and 322, also 303.

The Cambridge Railway Circle had Chris Green lecturing at a meeting around the time of the original Thameslink launch (from Bedford). From discussion at the meeting Chris organised a private charter from Cambridge to Brighton, including getting the clearance for the route.

He also was involved in another CRC charter when the 322 Stansted Express units were new, from Cambridge to York.

During one of the NSE days at Cambridge, the Blue Train was brought down from Scotland, and worked shuttles from Cambridge to Stansted. Anoth Chris Green initiative!

 

Stewart