Cwm Prysor - 'The Bala Branch'

[The Johnster]

Interesting thoughts.

 

However it's not a route I intend to go down. I didn't amend my 16Ts either as it happens so for me, I'm happy to overlook such things and focus my time on the overall finish. 

 

Lack of interior detail on some of my open wagons, and especially on the empty mineral rake, is starting to rankle with me a bit and I am sooner or later going to have to do something about it, probably scribing lines to represent planks and door openings, which on the minerals can be emphasised by rust streaks.  Mr Rolley of this parish has provided me with a template for them when I get a round tuit.

 

But my dimpled steel opens carry tarpaulins precisely because I couldn't think of an easy way to model the internal concave dimples.

Interesting thoughts.

 

However it's not a route I intend to go down. I didn't amend my 16Ts either as it happens so for me, I'm happy to overlook such things and focus my time on the overall finish. 

 

Lack of interior detail on some of my open wagons, and especially on the empty mineral rake, is starting to rankle with me a bit and I am sooner or later going to have to do something about it, probably scribing lines to represent planks and door openings, which on the minerals can be emphasised by rust streaks.  Mr Rolley of this parish has provided me with a template for them when I get a round tuit.

 

But my dimpled steel opens carry tarpaulins precisely because I couldn't think of an easy way to model the internal concave dimples.

[kandc_au]

Hi David!

 

 

So with that in mind, and Cwm Prysor in its own little bubble, it should be fine to get on with the scenics. I really need to get it finished in the next six months so I can at least say it’s pretty much done and finally get the article written for Railway Modeller that’s been promised to Steve Flint for 2 years!

Tom,

Steve Flint would be happy to read that

 

Khris

[Tom F]

Remember yesterday I said that it was the end of the rolling stock modelling....... well, that wasn't quite true!

 

 

Today I decided to finish one of the larger 20T Toads (the most common brake van on the branch). Those who have been following this thread will remember I looked at modifying the Hornby chassis with T hangars and RCH axle boxes to represent the AA19/AA20. The experiment didn't work out sadly, the running was incredibly poor after removing Hornby axle boxes (which is where the original axles sat) and the footboards were extremely fragile.

So I've gone for a less accurate model, but more robust for layout operation. It retains the incorrect J hangars and axle boxes, but in doing so has allowed free running. To at least give the look of the AA20 (in this case) the buffers have been changed to RCH, and the end supports of the footboards have been removed, and replaced with wire.

 

I repainted this Toad with Revell 76 (A favourite of mine first introduced to me by Ian Fleming) compared to Railmatch late freight grey which was used on the smaller Bala (Oxford) Toad. Transfers were produced by Railtec to the actual number and allocation of a Toad used on the branch.

 

 

I'm really pleased what I've managed to get finished with rolling stock this Christmas break!
Right, I'll go and make my tea now!

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by 9793

[Pteremy]

There is a clear difference in the greys (on screen anyway). So which grey is more accurate? Or are they both correct, for different periods?

[Tom F]

There is a clear difference in the greys (on screen anyway). So which grey is more accurate? Or are they both correct, for different periods?

 

Even from my own research, BR wagon liveries - particularly the greys - varied immensely. Whilst middling shades did predominate, the grey could be anywhere from off white through greenish lead shades (some of Bachmann's grey is pretty close to this) to a dark battleship grey. There may have been particular periods in which some shades were more likely to be applied but in practice, the effects of weathering and a harsh environment mean it just isn't worth sweating over unless a specifically ex-works finish is desired.

 

I like the variety!

Edited January 2, 2019 by 9793

[The Johnster]

50 shades of grey, and probably as many of bauxite, Pteremy.  The initial application of these BR liveries in the late 40s and early 50s took place during a period of post war economic austerity that is difficult to imagine nowadays, and supplies of paint to provide the correct mix could not be guaranteed from one week to the next in the wagon repair paintshops.  War surplus Royal Navy grey was used in some mixes, and others, especially on steel minerals, had a sort of blue tinge to them.  This variety lasted well into the 60s and the 70s in some cases, as general merchandise goods vehicles often went for very long periods between overhauls and repaints.  Patching up in local yards to get them back into service was common.

 

It would be a very brave man who would state categorically that the grey of any unfitted wagon or van from this period is correct, or wrong, and I am famous for being a rank coward.  On top of this, the paint weathered differently on metal and wooden bodies, and between planked and ply wooden bodies.

[Northmoor]

50 shades of grey, and probably as many of bauxite, Pteremy.  

I started to read that book, assuming it was about construction of unfitted BR wagons.

 

Well there was a lot of banging, screwing and drilling, but there the similarity ended......

 

<Sorry, I'll leave now>

Edited January 2, 2019 by Northmoor

[The Johnster]

You mean, it wasn't about early BR unfitted wagon liveries?  It was about things being a bit f*cked, though...

[Regularity]

You mean, it wasn't about early BR unfitted wagon liveries?  It was about things being a bit f*cked, though...

Ah. There’s the key difference: the early years of nationalisation were all about the railways being f*cked ragged.

[P.J.]

Tom, thanks for sharing all of your progress. Cwm Prysor is somewhere I've explored a bit and love, and I may have spent the last few days reading through the entire topic. You've also inspired me to do my Oxford brakevan up as the one from the Bala branch.

[Tom F]

Tom, thanks for sharing all of your progress. Cwm Prysor is somewhere I've explored a bit and love, and I may have spent the last few days reading through the entire topic. You've also inspired me to do my Oxford brakevan up as the one from the Bala branch.

 

 

Many thanks PJ!

 

It's well worth the effort to make it look more accurate. If you want the correct Transfers which include the writing 'The Blaenau Branch', you can order them from Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[The Johnster]

Indeed, and I have been very lax in not branding my toads for Tondu.  C'mon Johnster, extractus digitus...

[Northmoor]

Indeed, and I have been very lax in not branding my toads for Tondu.  C'mon Johnster, extractus digitus...

 

I will need to do this too (just found some old articles in Scale Trains with brake van allocations).  Isn't it funny how many of us would insist on loco allocations being spot on, but assume rolling stock is from some general pool?

[Tom F]

I will need to do this too (just found some old articles in Scale Trains with brake van allocations).  Isn't it funny how many of us would insist on loco allocations being spot on, but assume rolling stock is from some general pool?

 

 

Northmoor, does there happen to be any references to Brake Vans in the North Wales area?

[Pteremy]

I am sure that I have seen a list somewhere.

 

But this is a slippery slope. Photographers tended to focus on locos, so there is good contemporaneous evidence to back up 'paper' records of loco allocations. With coaches you can often see enough to identify the specific Diagram, but far less often the actual vehicles concerned. Similarly for freight stock. You have to draw a line somewhere, and if the number is wrong, who, frankly is going to know?

[Tom F]

I am sure that I have seen a list somewhere.

 

But this is a slippery slope. Photographers tended to focus on locos, so there is good contemporaneous evidence to back up 'paper' records of loco allocations. With coaches you can often see enough to identify the specific Diagram, but far less often the actual vehicles concerned. Similarly for freight stock. You have to draw a line somewhere, and if the number is wrong, who, frankly is going to know?

 

GWR.org has a list, but it is only a snap shot (very useful none the less).

 

I agree, however with Toad's and their allocations, It's nice to try and match the place and number, particularly when GWR Toads had set workings. My BR standard Brake Vans are randomly numbered (the bauxite BR Brake has the factory number), however a Parr allocated Toad may raise some eyebrows!

Edited January 3, 2019 by 9793

[Northmoor]

Northmoor, does there happen to be any references to Brake Vans in the North Wales area?

I don't seem to have all the articles - there are at least five parts(!) - but from the lists of selected examples, I can see:

AA11 56498 Oswestry RU 9/47

AA13 17795 &56539 Shrewsbury

AA19 114929 Ruabon, 114931/114956 Oswestry, 114936/114957 Portmadoc

AA20 68865 Shrewsbury

 

If you want to hunt them down, the articles were published in Scale Trains through 1983.  I'll be getting rid of mine soon (once the useful articles are scanned) then they'll be advertised in the Free to a Good Home section.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rob

[Tom F]

I don't seem to have all the articles - there are at least five parts(!) - but from the lists of selected examples, I can see:

AA11 56498 Oswestry RU 9/47

AA13 17795 &56539 Shrewsbury

AA19 114929 Ruabon, 114931/114956 Oswestry, 114936/114957 Portmadoc

AA20 68865 Shrewsbury

 

If you want to hunt them down, the articles were published in Scale Trains through 1983.  I'll be getting rid of mine soon (once the useful articles are scanned) then they'll be advertised in the Free to a Good Home section.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rob

 

 

Much appreciated Rob, sounds similar to the ones on GWR.org list. It does mean I can have another Ruabon Toad!

I'll be using a 'Portmadoc' Toad when I can model the Barmouth-Ruabon goods (which is the one that reversed into Bala).

Edited January 3, 2019 by 9793

[chrisf]

'Van' was quite a common term for what the LNER called 'brake'.  So yes, Van Second would be what a proper railway called Brake Third.

 

No idea what the X signifies - non-vestibuled?  The LMS used it to indicate fitted freight stock at one time, but passenger stock would have been fitted by definition.  Dual braked woudl also have been irrelevant by this time.

 

Mr. Foren?

 

You called?  Sorry, I've been in Switzerland for two weeks and couldn't hear you for the yodelling.

 

I think all this has been covered in my absence.  "Van Second X" = corridor brake second, aka BSK.  In archaeological times the GWR differentiated between van seconds where the van was at one end and brake seconds where it was in the middle.  The latter type died out years ago but times are slow to change.  "X" signifies that the vehicle must be vestibuled or gangway fitted.  "Rail Motor" = auto train or trailer.  As the rail motor proper died out in 1935 it is puzzling to say the least that the term was reintroduced circa 20 years later with not quite the same meaning. 

 

Chris

[Tom F]

  "Rail Motor" = auto train or trailer.  As the rail motor proper died out in 1935 it is puzzling to say the least that the term was reintroduced circa 20 years later with not quite the same meaning. 

 

Chris

Morning Chris!

 

I’m still perplexed at the WTT indicating auto yet the carriage works don’t. I may have the answer later today though! Stay tuned!

[Pteremy]

I don't think that WTTs were always 100% accurate? Some of the verbal information (i.e. not the timings) clearly remained 'in print' long after it was relevant - maybe it was just 'left' because in practice no one thought it worthy of a formal change/correction?

 

Back to Toads the list I was thinking of was probably the one in MRJ 18 (p288), which has numbers as well as home locations. But it dates from 1940 and is based on observations (at three specific localities). These are clearly included in the gwr.org list (the '1940' entries), which is far more comprehensive.

 

There is a list of the restricted wartime allocation in 'GWR Goods Train Working' Vol 1, p122, but this just shows how the 129 vans which retained a branding were allocated, that is the number of branded vans for a location, without specifying the actual vehicles allocated themselves.

 

But what we don't seem to have is an accurate list for post war allocations. The relatively recent 'Acquired Wagons of British Rail (Vol 1)' provides a record of the wagons that were still in use in BR days, but unfortunately no allocations. (Some nice pictures of branded vehicles though.)

[Captain Kernow]

I don't think that WTTs were always 100% accurate? Some of the verbal information (i.e. not the timings) clearly remained 'in print' long after it was relevant - maybe it was just 'left' because in practice no one thought it worthy of a formal change/correction?

 

I don't think we should underestimate the fact that some railway officials actively liked tradition and perpetuated an 'old fashioned' way of doing things. This can also be said to apply even now, in some respects.

[St Enodoc]

I don't think we should underestimate the fact that some railway officials actively liked tradition and perpetuated an 'old fashioned' way of doing things. This can also be said to apply even now, in some respects.

 

If it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change.

[The Johnster]

GWR.org has a list, but it is only a snap shot (very useful none the less).

 

I agree, however with Toad's and their allocations, It's nice to try and match the place and number, particularly when GWR Toads had set workings. My BR standard Brake Vans are randomly numbered (the bauxite BR Brake has the factory number), however a Parr allocated Toad may raise some eyebrows!

 

But I have a Par allocated toad on Cwmdimbath, and a Bordesely, and an Acton; really must get this sorted even if it's just rebranding and keeping the number under the authority of Rule 1.

[Tom F]

I've had another positive and interesting day spent with former signalman John Roberts and author Martin Williams. We have got to the bottom of a couple of things.....we think.

 

The 1.05pm Wrexham-Bala was an auto train until around 1960, so why it is shown in the 1957 Carriage Working as 'Van Second and Second' is a bit of a mystery, but I know which option I intend to go with.....auto train with a Brake Compo attached (a working which allowed for a BC to be attached for school children retuning home from Bala to Corwen). John had a couple of photos showing some interesting views of the said train from 1949. One photo shows the said train departing Bala with the 3.25pm....and with the auto coach leading, and two standard coaches behind......apparently the school train could be a bit of a rowdy affair!

 

Snowdonia looked magnificent this afternoon! 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by 9793