Amtrak to refuse to operate trains on non-PTC track starting Jan 1 2019

[mdvle]

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/08/27-amtrak-says-it-will-not-run-trains-on-routes-without-ptc

[Glorious NSE]

Permanent 500 mile long bustitution...what a farce.

(Edit - 550!)
 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Glorious NSE

[ColinK]

I wonder if I could pop over and get some overtime?

[Supaned]

And that's the end of that then. The death of long distance passenger trains in the US. Funny how the likes of Delta will pick up the passengers.....

[Spitfire2865]

Wow. Amtrak shot themselves in the foot again. Im not even surprised, just disappointed.

[Mike Storey]

Something is clearly going on. Another article in Trains, on exactly the same date (27 Aug), announced a further $204m grant from the FRA towards further PTC.

 

Perhaps Amtrak are playing hard ball to ensure this money gets spent?

[BR60103]

Or will the railroads delay PTC further to get Amtrak off the property?

[Supaned]

The Trump administration and Amtrak both want non-North East corridor and non-state supported long distance trains gone. This PTC thing is just another way of going about it dressed up as a safety issue - the FRA has already given them an exemption to operate on these lines.

 

They started by eliminating dining car service on some trains , either giving nothing or a cold sandwich as an alternative (this despite having ordered and not yet taken full delivery of a new fleet of single level dining cars), their latest wheeze was to propose partially bussing the Southwest Chief between Dodge City and Albuquerque because nobody wants to pay to maintain the track or needlessly install PTC over Raton Pass , which has just 2 trains a day - both of which are the Southwest Chief.

 

Once the trains are gone they won't be coming back. Meanwhile Delta and other airlines will no doubt reap the rewards - oh look, the current Amtrak CEO just happens to be the former Delta CEO. What a coincidence....

[phil-b259]

The Trump administration and Amtrak both want non-North East corridor and non-state supported long distance trains gone. This PTC thing is just another way of going about it dressed up as a safety issue - the FRA has already given them an exemption to operate on these lines.

 

They started by eliminating dining car service on some trains , either giving nothing or a cold sandwich as an alternative (this despite having ordered and not yet taken full delivery of a new fleet of single level dining cars), their latest wheeze was to propose partially bussing the Southwest Chief between Dodge City and Albuquerque because nobody wants to pay to maintain the track or needlessly install PTC over Raton Pass , which has just 2 trains a day - both of which are the Southwest Chief.

 

Once the trains are gone they won't be coming back. Meanwhile Delta and other airlines will no doubt reap the rewards - oh look, the current Amtrak CEO just happens to be the former Delta CEO. What a coincidence....

 

I would venture to suggest the stance of Amtrack (it being a Government sponsored body in a country that generally doesn't believe in state run enterprises and seeks to dismantle the few that do exist) is a reflection of the current incumbent of the Whitehouse (and his party being in control of Congress / the Senate).

 

If the Democrats were in charge then I suspect Amtrack would be taking a different stance on PTC.

 

No different really to the situation in the UK where British Rail had to publicly dance to the tune of Transport ministers / HM Treasury and make savings (e.g. singling lines, rationalisation of track layouts, etc) year on year.

[Mike Storey]

The conspiracy theory makes sense, except that several of the States through which the Chief runs have been drumming up operating subsidy/grant to ensure continuation. That is why they reacted so furiously to the pre-emptive announcement.

[brianusa]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/business/article217386015.html

 

This is a West Coast issue and this accident was given prominence  earlier this year.

 

Brian.

[Mike Storey]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/business/article217386015.html

 

This is a West Coast issue and this accident was given prominence  earlier this year.

 

Brian.

 

Thanks for this reminder. Is it that Amtrak are more concerned about the NTSB than the FRA, despite the waivers?

[Glorious NSE]

Amtrak's decision is across the network, not just on the West Coast, three of the eight trains affected operate in the North East.

[Oldddudders]

But expensive litigation every time an Amtrak train has a PTC-preventible event may be behind some of this. If you don't have events you don't pay out. If you do, then every soul on the train sues for whiplash or whatever. Those costs mount. 

[Supaned]

Perhaps so , but the accident involving Amtrak train 188 on the outskirts of Philadelphia occurred on a line fitted with speed control - it just wasn't fitted on a sharp curve (which it clearly needed to be) . And however good PTC may be , it won't prevent vehicles or trucks from fouling grade crossings , which are in reality the bulk of the incidents that Amtrak are involved in - perhaps they should fit a form of PTC to road vehicles to prevent that from happening ?

 

The crash in South Carolina was a result of systems failure and an operating rule regarding operating in degraded working which really was an accident waiting to happen. Sadly it took one to get the rule changed but at least now they have amended the operating rule to err on the side of safety. As far as I'm aware , PTC can't tell which way a hand switch is set if it isn't interlocked, although I stand to be corrected.

 

I do understand the push to improve safety on Amtrak , and whioleheartedly support it , but I'd counter that by saying that in reality the majority of incidents are caused by outside factors over which they have little influence. The accidents in Philadelphia and Tacoma were both due to excessive speed and could have been prevented by PTC, granted . I still maintain that certainly in the case of the SWC , as it is the sole train to operate over the portion of line , there really is no need for PTC and the existing track warrant type working should be more than sufficient to operate safely over that section of line.