Lenz Decoder CV Settings - CVs 50, 113/114

[Right Away]

Is any member aware if the running of motors in both Hornby and Bachmann steam locomotives can benefit from altering the values of CV50 and the associated CV113 and CV114?

 

With regards to changing the values of these CVs, the information given by Lenz is somewhat unclear to me.

 

I must stress that my locomotives perform flawlessly with the default values; therefore the only reason for my inquiry is "Could I be missing out on something?"

 

If such CV changes were beneficial, would they vary for differing driving wheel diameters?

[NIK]

Is any member aware if the running of motors in both Hornby and Bachmann steam locomotives can benefit from altering the values of CV50 and the associated CV113 and CV114?

 

With regards to changing the values of these CVs, the information given by Lenz is somewhat unclear to me.

 

I must stress that my locomotives perform flawlessly with the default values; therefore the only reason for my inquiry is "Could I be missing out on something?"

 

If such CV changes were beneficial, would they vary for differing driving wheel diameters?

 

Hi,

 

If your locos are running flawlessly with the default values then any changes can risk them running less well.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

This unhelpfully cryptic information about this specific group of decoder functions is my one complaint in what is otherwise a range of very clearly documented equipment. 'Here's some alternative settings you can try. We are not going to tell you where they might best be applied.' It's not even internally consistent, they mention motor types 0 to 5 (six potential settings) and then offer four bits to select them. Sigh. What I believe 113 and 114 do is respectively control the feedback response, and the sampling period

 

I haven't yet found any better information from users in the Lenz homeland either, and there tends to be a little more technical interest in that sphere. However the basic decoder functionality is so good and ther eis a better alternative, that I haven't been sufficiently motivated to really try looking for this information...

 

Now, if your locos are performing completely satisfactorily, then you are not missing out on anything.

 

It is only worth going for these options when the mechanism doesn't run satisfactorily. Do they do anything? Yes they do. When you have a mechanism that doesn't play nicely in some respect it is worth fumbling around with each motor type to see if that yields an improvement, and trying 113 and 114 settings against the motor type 4 - use big value changes in 113 and 114 to asses the effect and get a feel for what you are doing. I have employed it on one very sluggish Hornby 'black can' motor, and one extremely 'fidgetty' small Bachmann motor and both were 'pulled into line'  satisfactorily to match regular performance.

 

That was at least ten years ago. Other DCC users here drew my attention to the Zimo product. Oh look at that, huge documentation for motor setting options, very clear about what is what. Bought a few Zimo decoders and used the wayward motors I had then identified  as test beds. Much simpler. So no more cryptic fiddling with Lenz decoders when I hit a wayward mechanism, employ the somewhat more expensive Zimo decoder for its better documented adjustment capability.

[WIMorrison]

the only way i have found that works with these CVs is to Programme on Main in a quiet room with the loco running at a constant speed. I listen for the engine note asI change CV50 and when I find the smoothest running setting I leave it there

 

I don't have a clue what the CV numbers mean, although I understand that 4 and 5 are aimed at coreless motors, however I do know that some people here have tried dng this in the manner I have suggested and they have made errant locos run much more evenly.

[Right Away]

I would agree with the "leave well alone" approach when all is well. Why break anything?

 

I had always been curious as to the implementation of Lenz's CV50 but count myself fortunate in running locos that really have no need for that kind of "tweaking".

 

Thanks again.

[RAF96]

Have a look here for CV50 info...

https://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13267

 

Edit:

And here...

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2645-lenz-cv-question/

Rob

Edited September 9, 2018 by RAFHAAA96

[Right Away]

Thank you.

 

I will definitely give this issue more thought as I did some preliminary testing in a Bachmann Std 4 tank fitted with a Lenz Silver decoder which (as I mentioned in another post) emits a growl when running at mostly slow speeds.

 

Yesterday, I replaced the decoder with the blanking plug and ran the loco on the DC test track.

Result: The loco is quiet.

On refitting the decoder (which incidently has worked fine in another locomotive), the growl returns!

 

Still puzzled, and out of bewilderment I grabbed the Lenz controller, entering 64 (binary 7).

Result: The locomotive will not move until speed setting passes step 6, BUT then moves away relatively quickly WITHOUT any growling noise. Obviously, this running characteristic is not useable until a solution is found to

fine tune the decoder output to restore the slow running.

 

Meanwhile, she'll have to growl away at prototypical slow speeds with CV50 restored to default.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would agree with the "leave well alone" approach when all is well. Why break anything?

 

I had always been curious as to the implementation of Lenz's CV50 but count myself fortunate in running locos that really have no need for that kind of "tweaking".

You will not break anything. A reset to restore to factory defaults de-risks the process of making adjustments.

 

And as for not running locos that need tweaking:

 

I will definitely give this issue more thought as I did some preliminary testing in a Bachmann Std 4 tank fitted with a Lenz Silver decoder which (as I mentioned in another post) emits a growl when running at mostly slow speeds.

 

Yesterday, I replaced the decoder with the blanking plug and ran the loco on the DC test track.

Result: The loco is quiet.

On refitting the decoder (which incidently has worked fine in another locomotive), the growl returns!

 

Still puzzled, and out of bewilderment I grabbed the Lenz controller, entering 64 (binary 7).

Result: The locomotive will not move until speed setting passes step 6, BUT then moves away relatively quickly WITHOUT any growling noise. Obviously, this running characteristic is not useable until a solution is found to

fine tune the decoder output to restore the slow running.

This is a good example of a mechanism that can use some CV tweaking. Operation on DCC should be at least equivalent to the best obtained on DC, and that includes quietness.

 

As Iain Morrison suggests above, set it running at the worst speed step for noise, and using POM try the different motor settings in CV50 to see if quiet running is obtained.  (Having a play with the CV9 settings is another thing to try, though I have never yet had to use this.)

 

Over the years I have come across several mechanism and decoder combinations (assortment of makers of both items) that exhibit what I take to be mechanical resonance with the PWM regime of the decoder, resulting in noise not present when the mechanism alone is run on vanilla DC (no feedback). Being able to tune this out is a good feature of better decoder designs.

[arv]

Is any member aware if the running of motors in both Hornby and Bachmann steam locomotives can benefit from altering the values of CV50 and the associated CV113 and CV114?

 

With regards to changing the values of these CVs, the information given by Lenz is somewhat unclear to me.

 

I must stress that my locomotives perform flawlessly with the default values; therefore the only reason for my inquiry is "Could I be missing out on something?"

 

If such CV changes were beneficial, would they vary for differing driving wheel diameters?

 

I experimented with a Hornby Duchess R2230 and a Lenz Standard+ V2 decoder, I found the loco runs better with CV50 set to 1 as opposed to the default value of 0.

 

It runs smoother. But one thing that is bugging me a bit is the Lenz decoder does not make the train run as fast as the Hattons decoder that was in it before did. The loco does not quite make "express" speeds that I like!

[WIMorrison]

Firstly - you haven't accidentally switched on f3 which is the Shunting Mode in the default Lenz functions?

 

I also find that setting bit 7 in CV50 to 1 ( decimal value 64) can sometimes change the speed.