RTR terrier

[snowy1051]

Hello,

as my 00 gauge layout is based somewhere on the Worcestershire/ Warwickshire border I am contemplating adding a Terrier to my loco stud. There were two on the Edge Hill Light Railway circa 1920ish to when it closed and rumour has it that Stratford shed occasionally pressed one into service when they were short of engines and used then on the Stratford to Broom Junction run.  As the Hornby/Dapol  locos are so small and I've seen one advertised with the "scalextric" motor I now do not know what to expect if I purchase one. I would like advice please on which may be the best one to purchase (2nd hand) and do the motors last? Many thanks for any info re these pretty little engines. 

 

[adb968008]

Hello,

as my 00 gauge layout is based somewhere on the Worcestershire/ Warwickshire border I am contemplating adding a Terrier to my loco stud. There were two on the Edge Hill Light Railway circa 1920ish to when it closed and rumour has it that Stratford shed occasionally pressed one into service when they were short of engines and used then on the Stratford to Broom Junction run. As the Hornby/Dapol locos are so small and I've seen one advertised with the "scalextric" motor I now do not know what to expect if I purchase one. I would like advice please on which may be the best one to purchase (2nd hand) and do the motors last? Many thanks for any info re these pretty little engines.

 

Ive got nearly 10 of these, going back to the days of Dapol.

The model itself is quite old now, but was way ahead of its time in detail.

 

First, the future,..

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35694/Dapol-4s-010-001-oo-gauge-stroudley-terrier-a1-class-boxhill-improved-engine-green-0-6-0-tank-locomotive-no-82-dcc-ready

 

There is currently a new one in tooling for Rails of Sheffield, by Dapol, though as yet its not been seen at EP (early prototype) stage, and though Warley is around the corner, we dont yet know when it will be available, the Q4 2018 prediction maybe a bold one.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/132605-rails-of-sheffielddapolnrm-announce-oo-gauge-stroudley-a1a1x/

Based on nothing more than peer performance, a model tends to be a year - 18mth following an EP before release, so unless there is an expected ontime surprise, my guess is its a while yet.

 

Now the current,

 

Dapol originally brought out the terrier in the late 1980’s in several liveries, though all the same tooling (one size fits all, regardless of differences within the class, including the BR smokebox number plate), thus introduces some inaccuracies.

Hornby acquired the tooling from Dapol, and has since produced many many more.

The differences between Dapol and Hornby (apart from the box) is the paint quality, which is much newer and finer on Hornby than the older Dapol ones (with exception of the Dapol limited edition of Boxhill), which includes painting of handrails, and the painting / darkening of coupling rods and wheel rims.

Otherwise they are pretty much the same. The motor is the small rectangular motor used by Hornby in the pug, and old class 58 / 142 and all the locos that subsequently used to use older x04 motors (basically every railroad 0-6-0 from the 08/Thomas thru to the old B12 and J52), the difference being the worm.

https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x8246-class-a1x-060-terrier-motor-and-worm.ir

 

The advantage to this motor is its easy and cheap to replace.

The disadvantages are this is old, not DCC ready.

 

Ive had years of pleasure with my fleet, they all run fine, have reasonable speed ive not had one go pop on me in 30 years, never needed to replace a motor.

I havent yet ordered a Rails/Dapol one, although i may in time, but its likely i will have these for years to come.

 

As for price, lowest ive paid is £20, highest was £60.

As the model and the price is nice they can become addictive, especially in LBSC colours.

 

Finally...

The current nearst competitor to the Terrier is the P class, which beats it in detail, accuracy, build quality, motor and perforance and is DCC ready and sound...it is a 2018 new tooling.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/312301/Hattons_Originals_H4_P_012_SECR_P_Class_0_6_0T_323_Bluebell_in_Bluebell_Railway_lined_blue_2010s_/StockDetail.aspx

Edited November 2, 2018 by adb968008

[SRman]

The old Dapol/Hornby Terrier is not a bad runner, albeit noisy (very buzzy!) at speed. I have three of these models, all hard-wired for DCC using TCS Z2 decoders. On DCC, they are controllable right down to a smooth, inching crawl, with the wheels barely kicking round.

As adb968008 pointed out, they are not up to current standards of detail or finish, but for all that, they aren't bad, either. Probably the worst features to my eyes are the chunky wheels. 

For the LBSC "improved engine green" liveries, I much prefer the earlier Dapol versions, where the Hornby ones, while well finished, are simply too brown in shade.


LBSC Terriers Compared - 2 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr

[Edwardian]

I think it is fairly well-known that the old Dapol OO design is showing its age and is, moreover, a hybrid between the A1 and A1X incarnations, and not at all accurate for either.

 

Now, this either bothers you or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, you need do nothing more than paint up a pair and letter them EHLR 1 and 2.

 

lf you want something closer to the actual appearance, you'll need to await the Rails/Dapol/NRM version, which is no doubt at least a year away.

 

EHLR No.1

 

Formerly 73/673 Deptford of 1872, she had been altered to A1X condition, so extended smokebox on saddle and under valance sand-boxes. She had retained the prominent condensing pipes leading from the smokebox to the tanks. She exhibits later features, iron brake shoes  (she had been built with wooden ones), Southern Railway tall front lamp irons, tank front lubricators, the 4 additional bolts to the tank side and blanked coal rails. Another detail is that the smokebox seems to have avoided the snaphead rivets that came to festoon most of the surviving class members.  

 

The forthcoming Rails Terriers include 2644, the Southern livery version.  This should be in an almost identical condition to EHLR No.1, including all the features mentioned above.  The only modifications of note would be the removal of the exhaust steam domes from the tank tops and the vacuum exhaust pipe.  

 

EHLR No.2

 

Formerly 74/674 Shadwell of 1872, she remained in A1 condition, so wing-plates and splasher sand-boxes.  She also retained the prominent condensing pipes, but had gained iron brake shoes (she had been built with wooden ones).

 

So, the forthcoming Rails Boxhill will make a good match, as having all the features I mention above.  However, there are some later features that were added to EHLR No.2 that are not correct for the new Boxhill model.

 

- Tall Southern Railway lamp irons,

- Tank front lubricators

-  Blanked coal rails

- 4 additional bolts to the tank sides

 

Add these extra details to taste, and the exhaust steam domes should also be removed as with No.1.

 

 

EDIT: Pictures (copyright Tom Middlemass)

Edited November 2, 2018 by Edwardian

[The Johnster]

I'd avoid anything that says it's got a 'Scalextric' type motor, as it will run like a racing car; much too fast for normal use and difficult to control at the low speeds that Terriers did the very great bulk of their work at.  That said, Terrier looks like a shunting loco, and is perfectly at home pottering around a goods yard with a pickup, but is actually a general purpose branch and local work sort of horse; they were famously free running and could spin along at a good old rate!

 

Not that familiar with them as models, but those I've seen at shows seem to run quietly and controllably; I'd say you should be pretty much ok so long as you avoid Scalextric motors.  Most modern RTR motors are very reliable and should give many year's service, and are fairly cheaply and easily replaced; older XO4 open frame types are indestructible and will last forever, with a bit of tlc around the commutator area and occasional carbon brush replacement.

[Nick Holliday]

Just a couple of (pedantic) minor points.

 

The tall lamp irons were the Brighton's installation.  The Southern replaced them with brackets from the smokebox on the locos they acquired.  It's interesting to note that on No. 2 the LBSC failed to remove the original irons fitted to the sandboxes, so this loco has, effectively, eight lamp iron positions.

 

The other point is that the condensing pipes were not the original fittings.  The majority of the Terriers had them removed around the turn of the century, presumably because the additonal maintenance cost wasn't justified by any fuel savings for the type of work they were then doing. Conversion to railmotor services meant that they were suddenly working longer duties, and it was thought that the resultant economies were now worth the extra costs, so the pipes were re-fitted.

[The Johnster]

Their day was indeed largely over by the turn of the 20th century, but not totally.  The Brighton, the Southern, and BR (S) in their respective days had work for a lightweight basic 0-6-0 for another 60 odd years, and the class was influential to the design of the SECR P, introduced at around this time, and another long lived class with usefulness in odd corners.  The Southern never bothered to replace or modernise these locos, and perhaps one can regard the Adams Radials and Beattie Well Tanks as similar cases, if a little more niche.  They were good at their work, the crews liked them, they presented few problems to sheds and workshops; why replace them!

[IWCR]

The  Southern built no medium / small passenger locos and no loco hauled carriages for suburban or branch line services.

The money went on electrification, the displaced locos and carriages from electrified areas then serving for this traffic.

After  WW2 there was a real need to start replacing the many elderly locos and a new design was prepared.

This was the "Leader", the less said about that the better. After Nationalisation the need was met by building Class 2 and 3 tanks but many Southern old locos lasted until the  closures of the lines concerned.

 

Pete

[Edwardian]

Just a couple of (pedantic) minor points.

 

The tall lamp irons were the Brighton's installation.  The Southern replaced them with brackets from the smokebox on the locos they acquired.  It's interesting to note that on No. 2 the LBSC failed to remove the original irons fitted to the sandboxes, so this loco has, effectively, eight lamp iron positions.

 

The other point is that the condensing pipes were not the original fittings.  The majority of the Terriers had them removed around the turn of the century, presumably because the additonal maintenance cost wasn't justified by any fuel savings for the type of work they were then doing. Conversion to railmotor services meant that they were suddenly working longer duties, and it was thought that the resultant economies were now worth the extra costs, so the pipes were re-fitted.

 

Thanks, Nick.

 

You have cleared up my puzzlement about the lamp irons, because the pair were sold out of service before Grouping.

 

Yes, I realise that the condensing popes were refitted c.1906 on. I meant that they had been retained after disposal. 

[wainwright1]

The Achilles heal for the 00 Terriers is the plunger pickups on four of the wheels, the other two are scrapers which are fine. This substandard feature has been perpetuated by Hornby from the original Dapol tooling. I have models from brand new which have plungers that stick in and cause poor running. If they would re-design this to scrapers on all wheels I am sure it would make slower running much more reliable.

I have the original Dapol Boxhill and Stepney in Improved engine green which look right. The Hornby colour looks too pink rather than brown and unfortunately they have applied this erroneous shade to all their versions. Mind you, they keep turning out the Southern 2 + 2 planked van with Maunsell Southern lettering in bauxite rather than Southern brown livery, whereas other wagons in the range (e.g. cattle wagons) are the right colour.

Don't know why someone in their research dept. does not get this corrected.

[The Johnster]

Thanks, Nick.

 

You have cleared up my puzzlement about the lamp irons, because the pair were sold out of service before Grouping.

 

Yes, I realise that the condensing popes were refitted c.1906 on. I meant that they had been retained after disposal. 

 

Ah yes, the condensing popes of the late medieval era, with drip trays inside their pope hats to catch the holy water.  I wish my spelling mistakes/autospell gaffes had this comedy value!  

[snowy1051]

My sincere thanks to all that have responded to this thread. Excellent info. There certainly is a lot to say about such small locomotives. great stuff.