Baseboard Plan check

[Tomathee]

Hi folks, hope this is the right area, couldn't see a specific one for woodworking queries. I've got a long ramble and at the end a couple of questions at the end, so please skip ahead, or read on at your peril

I've bought a trainset for our son for Xmas and am going to get it setup beforehand, he's probably too young to be putting the track together and it will be one less thing for me to do on Xmas morning along with the usual carboard mountain and battery searching routine. I thought I'd do the simple flat board and framework option for now as I feel I can get it done in the brief daylight hours when he isn't around to suss out what it is. Also as I'm not sure what the final use will be in terms of downstairs or upstairs on the floor, or eventually upstairs on legs, but that's not a problem for today.

I've bought some board and that is it so far. I got an 8'x4' sheet cut into two 4x3 and a 4x2, 12mm plywood. Followed advice and got it from a local place rather than a chain, but I have no clue on timber quality. I was going to get four 4x2 and put three together for a 6x4 that would fit the basic loop and trakmat that came with it. Changed my mind so there will be one less joint and a bit less framing weight. Given myself a conundrum in that if I use one less bit of straight track I can fit it on a 4x3 and a 4x2, bit smaller for carrying around, particularly if its up and down stairs over Christmas. So one idea I had was to go with the smaller board for a couple of weeks as a 'build 0.5' and then once things settle down in January make a more permanent fixture in the spare room and move up to the two 4x3. For now I think I'll leave out legs as I'd have to do lower than 'standard' to suit the height of a four year old. So floor based until layout features prohibit standing up against the wall when not in use. If/when it gets to needing to be kept flat I can look at legs again. As a side feature with the spare (most likely in the long term 4x2) I thought about doing a bit of a shelf layout with the option of hooking it up to the main one, which could also be used for storage while the larger board is stood up as mentioned, although all of that is getting a bit ahed of myself.

To do beforehand I understand I need to do the framework, I was considering leaving it off for now and having the boards on the floor next to each other but I'm probably asking for trouble with knocks and poor alignment. Popular opinion seems to be 25x50mm battens around the outside and then in the middle to make squares of around 2ft (60cm). Drill holes in the middle of battens for any future wiring. There is also painting to seal it and help prevent warping and other problems, which I can do with some leftover emulsion. And coachbolts to join them together, but that stage I have a bit more reading to do, so may be back with further questions. For joining the track across boards, given the temporary nature of the plan and hopefully only short term need for separating boards I want to avoid the likes of soldering. Given there will only be two straights across the joints I figured I could either put the track joints at the board joints or cut the rails and put extra fish plates on, slotting them together with the boards. Not ideal for regular or repeated use but as I said, hopefully this will be resolved, otherwise I'll have to look at a longer term fix for separating baseboards regularly.

• First, obviously have I understood things correctly, I've seen 2ft squares for framework mentioned down to 1ft, which seems a bit excessive although happy to be corrected if that or a fgure in between is appropriate
• For battens, taking the 2ft square frame example on a 4x2 board that would be one across the middle? And the 4x3 I'd do one vertical and two horizontal, or vice versa, effectively creating six squares
• People have mentioned diagonal bracing rather than simple square type, but I wouldn't know where to start, is it worth pursuing or stick with the simpler method?
• Apart from soldering related solutions, is there a temporary, easier and hopefully cheaper way to join boards, as I suspect comments may follow about damaging fishplate while attempting to manouver two boards together
• Do I need to paint/seal the board before attaching it to the frame or does the frame all need painting as well for protection?
• Is the Trakmat any good or does it act as a limiting feature in not  being able to deviate without it looking odd? This one is full of creases in any case so I'm a bit wary, however it may be preferable to child than wood or whatever emulsion gets slopped over it

Any other suggestions/guidance appreciated. Weather permitting I'll have a good bash at starting this on Sunday while they're out Christmas shopping.

Many thanks

Tom

[Satan's Goldfish]

A quick answer to 1 of your problems: Ref straight track over the board joint, have the board joint roughly in the middle of a length of normal straight set-track. do not fix that piece of track down and simply remove it when ever the boards are taken apart. No cutting or soldering required and any exposed fishplates are well back from the edge.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Satan's Goldfish

[HLT 0109]

Tom,

 

I am in a similar position, having just started an N gauge layout, starting with an 8x4 sheet of plywood.  However, that is where the similarity ends!  I have an existing 00 gauge layout fixed in my loft and it uses 12mm plywood.  I think you may struggle with the weight of your 4x3 boards once they are framed and have scenery etc - I think it is a pity you didn't have the boards cut all to 4x2.  That said, I would opt for 2' spacing of the frame/bracing and, for the 4x3s I would devide both length and width into two - ie four areas of 2' x 1'6".  Diagonal bracing is tricky, unless you are good with mitre joints.  A problem with bracing (which may not apply here) is the positioning of point motors if you intend to use under-board motors - you must ensure that the points are not going to be located so that the bracing prevents the motors from being located properly.

 

Painting/sealing - I am not sure.  My loft layout boards and frames have had no treatment prior to afixing scenery and have not suffered as a result over ten years.  However, my new layout is planned for exhibiting/transporting and i am inclined to treat everything before laying track or scnery - but the frames and bracing are already done and nothing has been treated.  Incidentally, I have not made my frames first and then attached the baseboard - in my case there is a serious probability of a wonky frame.  I make sure the baseboard is completely flat and then make the frame to fit, glueing and screwing the pieces to the top and to each other, one at a time.  It involves turning over the board each time a frame is ready but my new boards are completey level.

 

I have no time for Trakmats, though they may help plan the layout.  But then a book of plans gives you a choice.  With a small child, it may have uses (easier to clean up spills as you suggest) but, if you pin it in place under the track, you will have to take everything up to remove it at a future date should you wish to.  You could perhaps cut round the track with a craft knife to remove the Trakmat.

 

I hope this helps,

Harold.

 

edited to correct typos

Edited November 20, 2018 by HLT 0109

[Tomathee]

A quick answer to 1 of your problems: Ref straight track over the board joint, have the board joint roughly in the middle of a length of normal straight set-track. do not fix that piece of track down and simply remove it when ever the boards are taken apart. No cutting or soldering required and any exposed fishplates are well back from the edge.

 

Great idea thanks, that should definitely work for my initial plan. 

 

I came across an interesting idea of fitting more in less space by rotating the layout slightly. The oval using all the track in the set is a cm or two over the far ends if I have a 5x4 board, however rotating it a few(?) degrees allows me to fit in the other straights and use all the included track. That might be version 1.0 while I figure out how much space we can use once permanently settled in the spare room, also moving up to 6x4 will feel like a bonus upgrade, if that becomes the limit.

 

 

Tom,

 

I am in a similar position, having just started an N gauge layout, starting with an 8x4 sheet of plywood.  However, that is where the similarity ends!  I have an existing 00 gauge layout fixed in my loft and it uses 12mm plywood.  I think you may struggle with the weight of your 4x3 boards once they are framed and have scenery etc - I think it is a pity you didn't have the boards cut all to 4x2.  That said, I would opt for 2' spacing of the frame/bracing and, for the 4x3s I would devide both length and width into two - ie four areas of 2' x 1'6".  Diagonal bracing is tricky, unless you are good with mitre joints.  A problem with bracing (which may not apply here) is the positioning of point motors if you intend to use under-board motors - you must ensure that the points are not going to be located so that the bracing prevents the motors from being located properly.

 

Painting/sealing - I am not sure.  My loft layout boards and frames have had no treatment prior to afixing scenery and have not suffered as a result over ten years.  However, my new layout is planned for exhibiting/transporting and i am inclined to treat everything before laying track or scnery - but the frames and bracing are already done and nothing has been treated.  Incidentally, I have not made my frames first and then attached the baseboard - in my case there is a serious probability of a wonky frame.  I make sure the baseboard is completely flat and then make the frame to fit, glueing and screwing the pieces to the top and to each other, one at a time.  It involves turning over the board each time a frame is ready but my new boards are completey level.

 

I have no time for Trakmats, though they may help plan the layout.  But then a book of plans gives you a choice.  With a small child, it may have uses (easier to clean up spills as you suggest) but, if you pin it in place under the track, you will have to take everything up to remove it at a future date should you wish to.  You could perhaps cut round the track with a craft knife to remove the Trakmat.

 

I hope this helps,

Harold.

 

edited to correct typos

 

Thanks Harold, good luck with your new layout.

 

It did occur that weight could be an issue, particularly when I decided not to drive from the main car park to the loading point to collect said wood and had to carry it all a short distance! Hopefully all will be forgotten if it becomes a permanent feature (mostly dependent on child being interested and the aggro of disassembly/moving forcing me to finish decluttering the spare room). Although if it comes to it I could always take a foot off the two larger boards and use them for whatever side project I try and find the time for. Thanks for the framing guidance I will go with that, point motors are a way off so I'll worry about that when I get to it. The painting I'll look into further, not sure if it was certain types of wood that need protecting more than others, wouldn't want to un-necessary work for myself. Also possibly bare wood would look nicer than whatever off-white emulsion would have gone on until proper painting and scenery took place. Your point on doing the frame while attached to the board is helpful, I had the same reservations that there would be overlaps galore if I made the frame separately. The trakmat I've not decided on, if I use a shorter plan for now or rotate to fit a smaller board than it's irrelevant, going with the standard 6x4 apart from giving a temporary 'background' I can't see any benefit.

 

 

Thanks again for any further input

[stivesnick]

^Tom

 

^{2 x 1 timber for the frame is fine, unless you want to mount certain types point motors under the board which are deeper than 2 inches.}

 

^{My own current layout has 4 x 3 foot boards. Each board has 2 braces along the 4 foot side and 1 on the 3 foot side. This has worked for me.}

 

^{Hope this helps.}

 

^Nick

[DCB]

When ever I see the word "Bseboard" I feel folk have already lost the plot. Why bother? Use L girder construction with track beds on risers,

that way even 1/2" ply doesn't get too heavy. Baseboards are great for me because I don't model much outside the railway fence, but even I use L girders

and the like for the scenic sections and regret not using it throughout the railway.

[Tomathee]

^Tom

 

^{2 x 1 timber for the frame is fine, unless you want to mount certain types point motors under the board which are deeper than 2 inches.}

 

^{My own current layout has 4 x 3 foot boards. Each board has 2 braces along the 4 foot side and 1 on the 3 foot side. This has worked for me.}

 

^{Hope this helps.}

 

^Nick

 

Thanks Nick, the bracing you suggest sounds the same as I had in mind.

 

 

When ever I see the word "Bseboard" I feel folk have already lost the plot. Why bother? Use L girder construction with track beds on risers,

that way even 1/2" ply doesn't get too heavy. Baseboards are great for me because I don't model much outside the railway fence, but even I use L girders

and the like for the scenic sections and regret not using it throughout the railway.

 

Thanks David, I did look briefly at these and other open top types and can see the benefit. However given the time I have to get it done this time, along with my skill level and experience in doing something similar vs starting from scratch learning an open top I've decided to stick with the flat board.

 

Time for a couple of stupid questions. Regards joining the boards many threads mention either dowels or coach bolts, fair enough I can find those. However coach bolts come with a square or regular (hex) nut and seemingly all a head on the bolt that doesn't take any kind of screwdriver etc, these don't seem the easiest way as they can only be tightened to a point without the other side slipping, with both square or hex nut looking like they'd work loose over time? Apologies I haven't had to do this sort of joint before, it's always been solved by screws. In a similar vein 2"x1", or 50x25mm is used very regularly as the standard size for framing, looking on the website for a couple of chain DIY stores there are few options at this size, mostly either roof battens or rough sawn. Seeming to get an option that is planed/smooth etc need to go lower thickness or width and I guess reduce the strength, or higher and add weight, interested to hear what I've missed with this one.

 

Many thanks again

[imt]

I don't know the diameter of your (intended?) coach bolts - they tend to be quoted as M10 meaning 10mm diameter or similar.  Search on Google for wing nuts for coach bolts.  Frankly I find "breifcase" or "drawer" latches much better as they hold everything tight without screws.  IF you are not taking your baseboards apart often then hardwood dowels will do, otherwise get some of these (or similar) https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/25mm-Steel-Dowel-Model-Railway-Train-Set-Baseboard-Alignment-Joiners/1955351294?iid=302140217444

[HLT 0109]

The poiont of the dowels is to make accurate alignment of the track easy when reassembling the boards prior to an operating session.  Over time,l the holes drilled for bolts will wea, rmaking alignment difficult and that will become frustrating.  If you use metal dowels, then the bolts (or briefcase latches) are there simply to prevent the boards from separating so the wear doesn't matter as long as the boards butt up closely. I have bought carpenters dowels rather than those in the link provided by imt - supposedly esier to fit.  No doubt I will find out!  This way the bolts do not need to be bilky, just long enough to pass through the thickness of two frames and facilitate attaching a wing nut.

[HLT 0109]

When ever I see the word "Bseboard" I feel folk have already lost the plot. Why bother? Use L girder construction with track beds on risers,

that way even 1/2" ply doesn't get too heavy. Baseboards are great for me because I don't model much outside the railway fence, but even I use L girders

and the like for the scenic sections and regret not using it throughout the railway.

But what do you attach your L girders to - presumably a baseboard?

[DCB]

But what do you attach your L girders to - presumably a baseboard?

Cross pieces, L girders are two pieces of wood screwed together in an L shape which act as longitudinals more or less like baseboard side framing but without

the board. They have cross pieces and risers up to the track bases but no actual baseboard surface away from the tracks. That way scenery can be below

or above the track and tracks can easily rise and fall relative to one another. Much more common in the US than UK as here we seem to start with with a

Hornby track mat on the kitchen table and progress to bigger and better tables as we grow older and more affluent.