BR(W) & BR(M) Corridor Connections

[Ian J.]

Hi all,

 

I have a question about British Rail Western and Midland region practice for connecting their pre-nationalisation stock to Mark 1s.

 

As I understand it, both the GWR and LMS used British Standard Gangways on their carriages (while the SR, LNER and BR used Pullman Gangways). I am aware that adaptor plates were available to connect Mark 1s to BSG stock.

 

However, what I don't know is how this was implemented in regular daily activity. Were all BR(W) and BR(M) Mark 1s fitted with adaptors so that Mark 1 stock could be used in any rakes along with BSG stock all the time, or were rakes generally made up of either pre-nationalisation BSG carriages, or Mark 1s, with combinations of the two more rare?

 

TIA

Edited December 2, 2018 by Ian J.

[Bob Reid]

Try the topic here Ian http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74027-corridor-connection-between-br-standard-pullman-type/?hl=%2Badapter+%2Bgangway&do=findComment&comment=1099654. In general they were fitted to the BS Gangwayed stock and utilised when it was necessary to couple them into a rake of Mk1's etc. i.e. those with Pullman type Gangways.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Bob Reid

[Ian J.]

Useful link, thanks Bob. Nice to understand that the adaptor was fitted to the BSG, and not the other way round.

 

However, it (and another thread linked to within it) don't quite answer my question which was about the general practice of making up rakes (there was one reply that touched on it but wasn't very authoritative). Were efforts made to avoid BSG to PG connections by deliberately not including both types in a train, or were rakes readily made up using either and adaptors commonly used? I get the impression that some carriages had adaptors fitted almost always, if not permanently (mentioned by yourself I think) so in those cases I would expect rakes with those adapted to be hooked up to Mark 1 stock often. But maybe most non-Mark 1 LMS, GW, and pre-grouping stock never got adaptors so would only be hooked up in rakes with like gangways?

[Bomag]

Given the limited number of Mk1 types when first built e.g. very limited catering cars, most trains on the LMR would have an LMS resturaunt coach and these were aparenlty semi-permenanty fitted with adaptors. Also you often got multi-part trains where portions were often of one type and they only needed to put one adpator on.  Plus you had spare coaches used to strengthen trains so they had them fitted when necesary.

 

I read soemwhere that on the LMR after 1959 that fitting tempoaray adaptors was curtailed as they could not safely attached or removed under the wires. 

[The Stationmaster]

Useful link, thanks Bob. Nice to understand that the adaptor was fitted to the BSG, and not the other way round.

 

However, it (and another thread linked to within it) don't quite answer my question which was about the general practice of making up rakes (there was one reply that touched on it but wasn't very authoritative). Were efforts made to avoid BSG to PG connections by deliberately not including both types in a train, or were rakes readily made up using either and adaptors commonly used? I get the impression that some carriages had adaptors fitted almost always, if not permanently (mentioned by yourself I think) so in those cases I would expect rakes with those adapted to be hooked up to Mark 1 stock often. But maybe most non-Mark 1 LMS, GW, and pre-grouping stock never got adaptors so would only be hooked up in rakes with like gangways?

 

Whenever possible the idea was to keep to only one, or a very minimum number, of connections between vehicles with the different types pf gangways.  This particularly meant that when 'loose' vehicles were used for strengthening it would be unusual to find mixed gangways and was also reflected in the booked marshalling of LNER vehicles working over the GWR marshalled with GWR vehicles.

[Wickham Green]

Try the topic here Ian http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74027-corridor-connection-between-br-standard-pullman-type/?hl=%2Badapter+%2Bgangway&do=findComment&comment=1099654. In general they were fitted to the BS Gangwayed stock and utilised when it was necessary to couple them into a rake of Mk1's etc. i.e. those with Pullman type Gangways.

That thread suggests that there were 'loose' adaptors that could be used on an ad-hoc basis - but no pictures were offered and I'm not convinced of their existence. Yes, GWR & LMS built coaches generally ran with their own ilk in BR days  as did vehicles of SR & LNER origin ...... some of and increasing proportion of the British Standard Gangwayed stock was fitted with adaptors.( Eventually, little was left apart from full brakes which had been shorn of ANY gangways, Stanier sleeping cars and a handful off Stanier Brake Thirds which had adaptors.)

As was mentioned on a.n.other thread, the Southern had a handful of Sets reserved for through working which were fully Pullman-gangwayed within but had adaptor-fitted B.S. gangways on the outer ends. What is little known is that both the LMS and the GWR DID have Pullman-gangwayed stock ! - the former just the three wartime twelve wheeled 'Royals' and the latter a handful of 70' coaches for evaluation early in the 20th century ..... all these had side buffers that folded out of the way rather than the telescopic type we're used to !

[The Stationmaster]

That thread suggests that there were 'loose' adaptors that could be used on an ad-hoc basis - but no pictures were offered and I'm not convinced of their existence. Yes, GWR & LMS built coaches generally ran with their own ilk in BR days  as did vehicles of SR & LNER origin ...... some of and increasing proportion of the British Standard Gangwayed stock was fitted with adaptors.( Eventually, little was left apart from full brakes which had been shorn of ANY gangways, Stanier sleeping cars and a handful off Stanier Brake Thirds which had adaptors.)

As was mentioned on a.n.other thread, the Southern had a handful of Sets reserved for through working which were fully Pullman-gangwayed within but had adaptor-fitted B.S. gangways on the outer ends. What is little known is that both the LMS and the GWR DID have Pullman-gangwayed stock ! - the former just the three wartime twelve wheeled 'Royals' and the latter a handful of 70' coaches for evaluation early in the 20th century ..... all these had side buffers that folded out of the way rather than the telescopic type we're used to !

 

In a passenger yard which I managed in the early 1980s we had a stock (allegedly) of gangway adaptors although generally they tended to be left on the ground if they'd been removed from a vehicle (unusual) or (almost inevitably) were left on vehicles to which they were fitted because they were working in regular circuits.  By far the biggest problem was Shunters who forgot that we had vehicles fitted with Standard Gangways when parting them and simply uncoupled them and pulled away without undoing the gangway clips - on one occasion the gangways of both vehicles survived intact, but the entire end was pulled out of one vehicle.