Hornby Elite and JMRI Decoderpro and PanelPro

[beejack]

I am looking at purchasing a New DCC controller.

 

At present I have a Hornby select, and although good as a starter, does not allow most CV's to be changed.

I have looked at the various systems available, but finances are tight and I am looking at being able to have three controllers.

 

The best solution at the moment for me seems to be the Hornby Elite, as I would also then be able to connect the Select as a third controller which would also prevent it being obselete. NCE power cab is the system I would be really like, but by the time all the components are purchased it would be nearly double the cost of the Elite and at the moment I have still many decoders to purchase!

 

What I really would like to do is to be able to combine the Hornby Elite with JMRI Decoderpro and Panelpro.

 

After reading the software notes and looking on the JMRI website they should be able to talk to the Elite using the USB port.

 

Before I go out and purchase an Elite, does anyone have experience of using these together successfully and if so what if any, are the limitations found?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Brian

[traction]

Hi Brian,

 

The Select can only use LOCO addresses up to I think it's 59, so you must remember to address all of the locos below this number when using the Elite or you won't be able to control them using the Select as a Walkabout unit, which limits it some what considering you can name and have 4 digit addressing when using the Elite.

 

I couldn't get the Elite to work 100% correctly with JMRI, although this was a fair while ago, so I'm not too sure how it all works together now.

I didn't find the Elite too bad, a bit clunky and took time to change things, not as intuitive as the NCE Powercab which is what I sold the Elite for!!

 

The main reason to change was the awful function operation on the Elite!

If you intend to run sound chip locos I would look else where, the Elite can only operate 9 functions and they take so many button presses to turn on you will soon get fed up with it.

 

You may need to wait for others to comment on the latest information regarding JMRI and Panelpro/Decoderpro

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[beejack]

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I knew there was limitations with the select, but I had forgot about the long addresses when using both together.

 

You have now got me thinking again!

 

You said that you tried JMRI with the Elite, but have you tried it with the power cab and if so are you able to use it as additional controllers?

 

Brian

[traction]

No I haven't used it with the Powercab, I don't have the USB interface.

 

May be a bit off the wall, but have you thought about getting a SPROG II usb? Link:- http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

Connect this to the PC and a small length of track, use this as your program track for full CV control, then just use extra Select units for loco control.

You could also connect up the Sprog II to the layout and use that as the interface as then you could use that with the JMRI software for extra controllers

Or another way is to buy the Selects off Ebay split from a set you would get them cheaper.

Still limited to 9 functions though, but they will operate some functions and points.

With the Sprog II you could remap functions not used to lower function numbers that you can use.

 

I think you can have 8 Selects connected to each other as walkabout units.

 

Lots of ways to go about it, all really depends on exactly what you want out of the complete system.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

 

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I knew there was limitations with the select, but I had forgot about the long addresses when using both together.

 

You have now got me thinking again!

 

You said that you tried JMRI with the Elite, but have you tried it with the power cab and if so are you able to use it as additional controllers?

 

Brian

[beejack]

Hi Ian

 

I took a look, but although you can use the Sprog II for loco control it would probably only control one or two lightly loaded trains. It doesn't give a maximum amp rating although the throttle can be set to a maximum of just below 1 amp so I guess this may be it's maximum. There is an option to add a power booster but no information is available yet.

 

I'm either going to have to bite the bullet and get the powercab and an usb interface and then fork out at a later date for a power booster or go for the elite. I think I'll may have to ponder on this a little more. I do like the idea of pc control, but there's nothing like have a controller in the hand.

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

Brian

[meple]

Hi Ian

 

I took a look, but although you can use the Sprog II for loco control it would probably only control one or two lightly loaded trains. It doesn't give a maximum amp rating although the throttle can be set to a maximum of just below 1 amp so I guess this may be it's maximum. There is an option to add a power booster but no information is available yet.

 

I'm either going to have to bite the bullet and get the powercab and an usb interface and then fork out at a later date for a power booster or go for the elite. I think I'll may have to ponder on this a little more. I do like the idea of pc control, but there's nothing like have a controller in the hand.

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

Brian

 

I think the idea is that you use the Sprog to do your programming and the Elite to do your running.

[Etched Pixels]

You can run a layout off a SprogII but you need a SprogII and a suitable booster beyond a small layout. The SprogII on its own is just about up to running little N scale layouts.

 

Personally I run a Digitrax Zephyr (DCS50) with JMRI and it works superbly using that and a PR3 USB interface (which can also do standalone programming). The choice was rather easier when I got it however because the powercab, Hornby, Bachmann and other new controllers didn't exist.

 

Alan

[Nigelcliffe]

I've been peripherally involved in getting the Elite support in JMRI improved, but its far from perfect. (Friend of mine has an Elite, and it was terrible with JMRI, so I talked to some of the JMRI developers and got test versions built to try to improve things). The weaknesses are in the poor signalling of information from the Elite to the computer.

 

It is at its worst when reading back decoder CV values; its something like 8 to 10 times slower than the Sprog and at least four or five times slower than any other command station I have experienced. We tried to make the Elite run faster, but it would sometimes just get into a knot as commands collided with each other.

 

In practise, if you just want to change a couple of CV's its not too bad, you just have to be very patient. But if you want to read in all the CVs in a moderately complicated chip (the test chip for timed runs was a CT DCX75), you will be waiting over 30 minutes for the Elite to do it, whereas a Sprog would have done it in under 4 minutes.

 

There are also limitations in how much, if any, feedback of occupancy sensors (and the like) can be made from the Elite. You will need to check this out yourself before committing to a purchase. (My friend has no use for this aspect of JMRI, he only needs it for occaisional decoder setup, so we have never explored it with the Elite.).

 

Its not helped as the Elite is not a popular command station with any of the development team; so the development testing cannot be as intensive as with other systems.

 

 

In summary, JMRI works with the Elite in a "sort of OK considering" manner. It doesn't sing along as JMRI can with more capable command stations, such as Lenz 100/90 sets, NCE Power-Pro, Digitrax, etc..

 

 

 

- Nigel

[upnick]

Hi Brian,

 

Leave the Elite to keep the shelf warm and put the rest to for an NCE powercab & interface with lead i use them with the laptop & JMRI Pro to control and programme the locos very easily the more you do with the JMRI the better it becomes i have been told.

 

When you state the Powercab by the time you have purchased all the componenets it would be nearly double that of the Eilite how come ?

 

http://tinyurl.com/2w5xh26 NCE Powercab £129.00

 

http://tinyurl.com/3y63dzk Interface £35.00

 

A flat cable for the interface > Panel is a couple of pounds if i remember correctly from the same retailer & i use a printer cable for the interface > USB on the laptop.

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/32wkfdb Hornby Elite £140.00

 

 

 

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi Brian,

 

Leave the Elite to keep the shelf warm and put the rest to for an NCE powercab & interface with lead i use them with the laptop & JMRI Pro to control and programme the locos very easily the more you do with the JMRI the better it becomes i have been told.

 

When you state the Powercab by the time you have purchased all the componenets it would be nearly double that of the Eilite how come ?

 

http://tinyurl.com/2w5xh26 NCE Powercab £129.00

 

http://tinyurl.com/3y63dzk Interface £35.00

 

A flat cable for the interface > Panel is a couple of pounds if i remember correctly from the same retailer & i use a printer cable for the interface > USB on the laptop.

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/32wkfdb Hornby Elite £140.00

 

 

 

You are skipping off a few components in making a comparison....

 

Brian said he had a Select, add an Elite to that and he has three throttle knobs and a USB interface to computer.

 

To do this with a PowerCab, you have to add a Smart Booster (required when adding third device to the PowerCab) and two more handsets. Not everyone is happy with jumping between locos on a small recall stack. Even with the cheaper throttle handsets (which I'd suggest as possibly better for secondary handsets than more PowerCab handsets), this will add another £180+ to the prices you mentioned. Total is now well over £350.

 

Even so, I agree about swapping from Hornby to another maker. Once someone is talking about computer interfaces, go with one of the fully capable systems from the main makers.

 

Do the sums on various makers systems, a total system bill of £350+ gives a lot of options with various of the main players.

 

 

- Nigel

[beejack]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Nigel, I think you've made my mind up.

 

I'll forget the elite, I was a little unsure of it anyway as it's a bit like a toy contoller, but I was looking at the power factor 4 amps on the elite and 2 amps with the powercab and that made it a little more appealing.

 

I think if I buy the Power cab and USB interface, I should be able to control using JMRI and I can then upgrade as finances permit. Only downside I can see is the limitation of only 2 amps until I can afford the power booster plus power supply - anyone tried it with a 3amp supply?

 

Upnick

Yes you are correct £164 + postage for the power cab and only £140 for the Elite post free as i can buy it locally when available, but as Nigel said I want three controllers and I will also need an SB3a smart booster and power supplies and that is where is starts to become double or more.

Powercab @ £129

USB interface @ £35

5amp Power supply from maplins £30

2 x hand controllers @ £60 each

SB3a @ £98

Total so far £412 - prices from the DCC supplies website(apart from Powercab)

 

The price is putting me off a little, but I still think the decision is made I'm going to buy an eli....Powercab.

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Brian

[traction]

I have the Powercab with SB3a and another Procab as a second controller.

 

All works great, I have the Procab throttle connected to the SB3a and use that with a 3amp power supply, only reason for that is because I had the old smart booster which was 3amps not 5amps like the new one.

The Powercab runs my small N-gauge layout, I have a spare Powercab power panel which is connected to a rolling road which I use to program any locos.

 

The new SB3a also upgrades the throttle to give the option of having 6 locos in the recall stack and not the two, which is all you have on the Powercab.

You've sumed up why its a good system......buy the Powercab and just upgrade when money permits, everything can be used on an expanding system.

You will still be able to run 3 locos on the standard 2amp power supply with the Powercab, I have done all with sound operating., dont plug a 3amp supply into it, if there is a short you will kill the Powercab!!!

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[beejack]

Ian

Thanks for all the advice.

 

Sorry for the slow responses, I've been resurrecting my old PC.

Can't ever remember it being so slow, 900mhz and 256mb memory with onboard graphics used to be fast once. Now it seems even the kettle's quicker!

 

I going look at getting the powercab next month and I will see if finances will stretch to the USB interface as well.

 

Going to the Bristol model railex on Saturday so might end up waiting a bit longer if something catches my eye.

 

Brian

[pauln]

Ian

Thanks for all the advice.

 

Sorry for the slow responses, I've been resurrecting my old PC.

Can't ever remember it being so slow, 900mhz and 256mb memory with onboard graphics used to be fast once. Now it seems even the kettle's quicker!

 

I going look at getting the powercab next month and I will see if finances will stretch to the USB interface as well.

 

Going to the Bristol model railex on Saturday so might end up waiting a bit longer if something catches my eye.

 

Brian

 

I use an Elite with JMRI. The Elite cost me about £90 from Ebay so a cost effective way of getting a controller and PC interface. JMRI throttle runs ok as does Panel Pro (and even WiThrottle on an Ipod touch) but it can eventually all get confused and start timing out if you throw it too many commands - multiple point changes for example. That may however just be my PC set-up. My Elite now has a defective control knob so may have to look to new solution. Finally as others have said selecting functions on the Elite is a pain in the butt.

[Nigelcliffe]

I use an Elite with JMRI. The Elite cost me about £90 from Ebay so a cost effective way of getting a controller and PC interface. JMRI throttle runs ok as does Panel Pro (and even WiThrottle on an Ipod touch) but it can eventually all get confused and start timing out if you throw it too many commands - multiple point changes for example. That may however just be my PC set-up.

 

Its as likely to be the code (and lack of information from Elite to PC) as the PC. If you want to try to improve things, contact the developers via the JMRI-Users Yahoo group. They will ask you to collect some data whilst using things and that may pin-point where things go wrong.

 

But, more reliable operation with a PC is more likely from a different command station.

[kevindickerson]

beejack,

 

Why don't you think about the a digitrax Zephyr, its a three amp system, which will take two analogue controllers as additional handset, and with a power supply should set you back around £150 mark.

 

You can pick up the digitrax utility throttles for around £60, and a decent PC interface again around £60.

 

So you could do the same as the with the NCE for £330 or if you have a couple of old analogue handsets then you can do it for £210.

 

Plus you get a separate programming track, which I don't think you will get with NCE solution.

 

Regards

Kevin

[Nigelcliffe]

Only minor complaint of the Zephyr is that functions are limited to F0 through F8 on the Zephyr keypad.

If an external throttle is used, then the functions passed to the track are those of the new throttle. eg. UT4 utility throttle goes to F12, or DT402 "two locos, lots of buttons" throttle goes to F28, Software throttles in JMRI go to F28.

 

The function key limit on the Zephyr keypad may be annoying with some sound locos which use higher function numbers.

In all other respects, the Zephyr is an excellent command station.

 

 

 

- Nigel (a happy user of a Zephyr).

[beejack]

Mmm...

 

Not too keen on the Zephyr. I had looked at it previously and although I do like the throttle and direction controls, it's a little bulky and I do like the looks of the powercab. Also reading through the manuals I warmed to the powercab more than the Zephyr

 

To be honest the Powercab has always been my favourite, but with having a Select already I was thinking of utilising what I have and save money, so it made me start to think of the Elite especially as JRMI software was compatible.

 

I'm glad I started this thread as I now think I would have regretted buying an Elite once I had used it for a while.

 

Brian

[MrHuge]

I use an Elite with RockRail and with JMRI , but not at the same time obviously. I can usually safely control 4 locomotives using a combination of the Elite controllers and the software cabs on each of the systems. I agree with the remarks about the limitations of the Elite, in it's crude method of function buttons and limited functions, but the software cabs give me access to all the functions I will ever need.

 

Predominantly I use RockRail as it has an easier graphic interface for track planning and I can control all my points/routes with a simple click of the mouse, you can even use the mouse as a control cab. I use JMRI for programming my decoders due to its large library of decoders, I use decoders from Hornby, Lenz, TCS NCE ESU.

 

I do not use any automation or block control, as I tend to run what I want, where I want, when I want.

 

The Hornby Elite is not the best system available, I also have a Lenz and ZTC system, but it gives you a built in USB interface that will let you get started on semi computer control at a cheap price, I paid £80 for mine from Digitrains a couple of years ago. Its not perfect but it works for me and does what I need it to do.

 

 

Hugh