DCC Concepts Zen Black Decoders

[CCGWR]

Hi Everyone,

 

After finally getting the latest issue of Hornby Magazine today and reading the article on the DCC Concepts Zen Decoders and associated braking modules I became very tempted but I can't find anywhere that sells them, even on the DCC Concepts site, which has the Zen Black Manual but none of the associated hardware. Does anyone know where I could obtain them?

 

Regards Connor

[Nigelcliffe]

A quick read of the DCC Concepts manual, and they appear to have implemented Asymmetric Diode Braking, sometimes called "ABC", or "Lenz Diode Braking".    As used by Lenz, Zimo, ESU, CT, and numerous others.

 

If you want a braking module off the shelf, then a Lenz BM1 will do.   If you want to make your own for 30p (could be less if you shop wisely!), then you need five (or maybe six, depends on decoder brands) fast-recovery rectifier diodes with enough current handling for your any loco in the brake zone (1A should be enough for most, but 3A or 5A would be super-safe).   That will give you automated stop for any decoder supporting Asymmetric Diode Braking.  Add a bypass switch if you want to turn the brake module off manually. 

 

The slow-approach method DCC Concepts appear to have adopted is very different to that used by Lenz, Zimo and ESU.  So, don't expect decoders from the Lenz/Zimo/ESU camp work with the slow-approach adopted by DCC Concepts.   And a DCC Concepts decoder will ignore a Lenz slow-approach module.  
The Lenz/Zimo/ESU method uses a circuit to generate an varying amount of asymmetry in the DCC signal (one pulse symmetric, next asymmetric, next symmetric, etc..).  The DCC Concepts approach appears to be to "reverse" the asymmetry (ie. apply the signal which would normally be used to stop a loco travelling in the other direction).   So, DCC Concepts slow-approach module would be either ignored, or would stop locos going in the reverse direction when using a Lenz, ESU or Zimo decoder.      This has consequences for operation which I'm reasonably certain must happen when using the Zen-Black decoder, but as I don't have one to test I don't want to get into that yet. 

 

Its possible that DCC Concepts might have implemented the shuttle feature better than Lenz, so that might be a reason to use the decoder.

 

 

- Nigel

 

[Kiwi]

5 hours ago, CCGWR said:

......I became very tempted but I can't find anywhere that sells them, even on the DCC Concepts site, which has the Zen Black Manual but none of the associated hardware. Does anyone know where I could obtain them?

 

It looks like their marketing is a little ahead of availability. No one stocks them yet as far as I can tell. Even their latest newsletter doesn’t mention availability. 

[WIMorrison]

They had the first production sample at Ally Pally - just

[CCGWR]

7 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

They had the first production sample at Ally Pally - just

 

Cheers, it seems they may be a while yet then.

[CCGWR]

15 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

A quick read of the DCC Concepts manual, and they appear to have implemented Asymmetric Diode Braking, sometimes called "ABC", or "Lenz Diode Braking".    As used by Lenz, Zimo, ESU, CT, and numerous others.

 

If you want a braking module off the shelf, then a Lenz BM1 will do.   If you want to make your own for 30p (could be less if you shop wisely!), then you need five (or maybe six, depends on decoder brands) fast-recovery rectifier diodes with enough current handling for your any loco in the brake zone (1A should be enough for most, but 3A or 5A would be super-safe).   That will give you automated stop for any decoder supporting Asymmetric Diode Braking.  Add a bypass switch if you want to turn the brake module off manually. 

 

The slow-approach method DCC Concepts appear to have adopted is very different to that used by Lenz, Zimo and ESU.  So, don't expect decoders from the Lenz/Zimo/ESU camp work with the slow-approach adopted by DCC Concepts.   And a DCC Concepts decoder will ignore a Lenz slow-approach module.  
The Lenz/Zimo/ESU method uses a circuit to generate an varying amount of asymmetry in the DCC signal (one pulse symmetric, next asymmetric, next symmetric, etc..).  The DCC Concepts approach appears to be to "reverse" the asymmetry (ie. apply the signal which would normally be used to stop a loco travelling in the other direction).   So, DCC Concepts slow-approach module would be either ignored, or would stop locos going in the reverse direction when using a Lenz, ESU or Zimo decoder.      This has consequences for operation which I'm reasonably certain must happen when using the Zen-Black decoder, but as I don't have one to test I don't want to get into that yet. 

 

Its possible that DCC Concepts might have implemented the shuttle feature better than Lenz, so that might be a reason to use the decoder.

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

Thanks Nigel. I have looked at the Lenz option as I have a Lenz system. I haven't looked at the Zimo and ESU systems but I know with the Lenz BM1 and other Lenz modules you still need a Lenz Decoder in the loco to run the system. I think I will hold out to the DCC Concepts system mostly due to the extra point changing feature with a Cobalt motor.

 

Regards Connor

[Nigelcliffe]

3 hours ago, CCGWR said:

 

Thanks Nigel. I have looked at the Lenz option as I have a Lenz system. I haven't looked at the Zimo and ESU systems but I know with the Lenz BM1 and other Lenz modules you still need a Lenz Decoder in the loco to run the system. I think I will hold out to the DCC Concepts system mostly due to the extra point changing feature with a Cobalt motor.

 

Regards Connor

 

The point motor changing in DCC Concepts manual is trivial, it will work with a Lenz BM1, or a home brew DIY device.  Diagram below.  

If the contacts on the switch are made, then the brake module is bypassed, and normal DCC arrives in the "brake zone", so trains don't stop.  If the switch is open, then the DCC signal goes via the brake module. 

 

 

The Lenz modules do not need Lenz decoders;  ABC stop is common to all the decoders which support it:  Lenz, Zimo, ESU, DCC Concepts new model, some CT, and others.   ABC slow-approach varies by maker as per my comments. 

 

The parts which are maker specific is the auto-shuttle stuff, though that is, primarily in the decoder, not the track-side device.  Lenz and DCC Concepts offer that in their decoders.

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[CCGWR]

2 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

The point motor changing in DCC Concepts manual is trivial, it will work with a Lenz BM1, or a home brew DIY device.  Diagram below.  

If the contacts on the switch are made, then the brake module is bypassed, and normal DCC arrives in the "brake zone", so trains don't stop.  If the switch is open, then the DCC signal goes via the brake module. 

 

 

The Lenz modules do not need Lenz decoders;  ABC stop is common to all the decoders which support it:  Lenz, Zimo, ESU, DCC Concepts new model, some CT, and others.   ABC slow-approach varies by maker as per my comments. 

 

The parts which are maker specific is the auto-shuttle stuff, though that is, primarily in the decoder, not the track-side device.  Lenz and DCC Concepts offer that in their decoders.

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

Thanks Again Nigel, it seems Hornby Magazine was a little vague or my understanding was. I now understand what the role of the point motor is in both the Lenz and DCC Concepts systems- to bypass the brake module. I thought reading the article that for example that a train could enter track 'a', stop, the point would change and then a train in track 'b' would start and vice versa. I shall keep looking into things. Thanks for the pointers.

 

Regards Connor