The Larass branch of the MGWR - Irish 2mm finescale 10.5mm gauge

[Argos]

Having had an enjoyable and inspirational trip to the Diamond Jubilee exhibition I felt I should make the effort to update this topic.

 

I am rather embarrassed to admit, that despite the two year extension, I still didn't manage to get my Dromahair module ready for display.

I made a couple a couple of basic mistakes when building the module that were going to be a pain to correct and my heart wasn't really in it as I was putting effort into something that had no long term future.

 

What the challenge did do was inspire me onto to a larger Irish based model (which surely was the ultimate aim of the challenge?).

 

I want to replace my Airship base layout that sits in the front room (my office since Covid, still in use as such a few days a week). That layout was a good first layout but suffers from a few errors in construction. I was contemplating scrapping it but my wife persuaded me to save it so it might see the light of day finished and running with Caley stock as intended.

 

The space vacated is actually a L shape into the chimney recess. after a bit of doodling I came up with a plan based on Cahirciveen on the Farrenfore to Valencia Harbour line in County Kerry (a GSWR branch).

 

My interests lie further north incorporating the MGWR and SLNCR so I've relocated to an imagined line built to serve a tourist development on the coast near Sligo. In the process the layout has been transformed into a terminus, a turntable acts as the engine release and access to the engine shed, a feature common to a couple of MGWR stations.

 

The attractions of Cahirciveen are obvious, the sweep of the line round the bay with the engine shed cut into the hill side along with modest but shuntable goods facilities and a carriage shed.

 

 

This particular photo is snipped form this online article:

https://docplayer.net/122870130-Chapter-15-archaeology-architectural-and-cultural-heritage.html

 

As for the relocation, I Looked around the Sligo area on Google Earth and I notice a couple of beaches on Ballysadare Bay around what is now call Strandhill. A bit of nosing around Wikipedia it appears the Standhill area was developed in the 1890 to exploit the beachside location. No doubt the presence of Knocknarea hill crowned with Queen Medb's (Mythical Queen of Connacht) grave added to the attractions.

I've assumed in a search for a locality to build one of their hotels to generate more traffic the MGWR got there first, with some meagre support from the permanently cash strapped SLNCR.

 

The period maps show no real villages of any note so I've chosen a 6 mile route that skirts around Knocknarea with a couple of intermediate stations and a junction onto the Sligo station approach mainline at Magheraboy.

The name Strandhill doesn't really work for me, fortunately there appears to be an earlier name of Larass (An Leathros) which suites better.

The first intermediate station heading from the terminus back to Sligo will be named after the local beach at Culleenamore. This station will also help generate traffic as a regular horse race was held on the beach from the 1850s.

 

So with the back story sorted I've developed the track plan in Templot:

 

 

The keen eyed will notice I've revered the crossover that access the goods yard. This made more sense to me having converted the station into a terminus.

 

I've also produced a signalling schematic to help with thoughts on operation.

 

The ground signal by the turntable is interesting and based on the one at Athboy (midway down the page linked below)

 

 https://athboy100.com/2016/05/17/the-athboy-railway-station/

 

Since then the plan has been printed out and mocked up.

 

 

The area containing the pointwork has been printed separately and mounted on a board ready for construction to start:

 

 

and frames for the Larass station board have been built, I just need to sort the final piece of ply covering.

So, that brings the story up to date.

This post is a precis of three pages of posts over on the Irish Railway Modeller website (https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8592-the-sligo-to-larass-branch-of-the-mgwr-with-a-bit-of-help-from-the-slncr/page/4/) in case you are board enough to want to read more!

 

I try and focus on the Irish Railway modelling aspects over there and the 2mm modelling aspects here rather than just duplicate post. I know some people read both forums so I try and avoid straight duplication.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Argos

[Robert Shrives]

A brilliant design, in a few days you have done more in 10.5 than I have in too many years...   I really look forward to this progressing. 

Robert 

[DavidLong]

I do like this, Angus. Look forward to seeing it progress.

 

David

[VRBroadgauge]

It makes me a happy man to see some 10.5mm gauge in another part of the world. There's a whiff of Australia in some of those photos of Ireland that makes me want to know more about it.

The 5'3" gauge in my part of the world that I'm modelling is what I would call a pioneer line - sharp curves down to 8 chain radius and a plethora of 1:30 grades. There was only 6" of river gravel ballast on the line and very light rail. I don't want to hijack your post Angus so I'll put a few pics up on mine.

Love your work. Look forward to seeing more of it.

Bruce

[Argos]

On 28/06/2022 at 08:01, Robert Shrives said:

in a few days you have done more in 10.5 than I have in too many years

 

Hi Robert,

appearances can be deceptive it took me over 6 weeks to that few days work (and was only a few days works!) 

I've a few other non-railway projects on the go at the moment so struggling to get modelling time.

 

[Argos]

5 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

There's a whiff of Australia in some of those photos of Ireland that makes me want to know more about it.

 

Hi Bruce,

In think there is some commonality in that quite a lot of Irish locomotives were sourced from Beyer Peacock who I believe were also quite active in the Australian loco market?

[VRBroadgauge]

4 hours ago, Argos said:

 

Hi Bruce,

In think there is some commonality in that quite a lot of Irish locomotives were sourced from Beyer Peacock who I believe were also quite active in the Australian loco market?

Correct. I'm currently building an 0-6-0 beastie from 1874. Beyer Peacock built the pattern engine and then Phoenix foundry in Ballarat did the rest. The smoke-box was modified and a cowcatcher added in later versions. There's only one remaining in the museum in Melbourne but it has the wrong tender.

Victorian Railways had a lot of British designs and some from the US (Baldwin).

[Argos]

So, at the end of June last year I was all ready to start the point work. Months of procrastination, prevarication and other words probably beginning with P later and I've finally started.

The in-between months haven't been squandered though, I finally got around to buying the 2mm scale associations book on track. 

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/nms/index.html

 

I really should have bought this book earlier as it has helped identify errors in my previous track builds. I've always managed to get the track working, but never as smoothly as I would like.

I'm hoping, with my now increased understanding, I'll finish up with better looking and better performing track. I've also been a bit more finicky with my quality control. Bin and restart actually saves a lot more time in the long run than bodge and try make good.....

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Argos

[Argos]

More progress with the pointwork. All plain rails and crossings are now complete.

A wagon rolls through the crossing unhindered in both directions which bodes well, however experience suggests waiting for the switch rails to be installed before celebrating success.

 

 

Next up is to build a jig to ensure consistency when filing the switch rails.

I've made life hard for myself in the Templot planning stage by playing around with switch lengths and types to fit pointwork in the space allowed. This means I've a mixture of 9,10 and 12 foot heel switches to file up.

[Donw]

9 hours ago, Argos said:

More progress with the pointwork. All plain rails and crossings are now complete.

A wagon rolls through the crossing unhindered in both directions which bodes well, however experience suggests waiting for the switch rails to be installed before celebrating success.

 

 

Next up is to build a jig to ensure consistency when filing the switch rails.

I've made life hard for myself in the Templot planning stage by playing around with switch lengths and types to fit pointwork in the space allowed. This means I've a mixture of 9,10 and 12 foot heel switches to file up.

 

Geoff Jones design is a good jig.  There is one available from the Association or make your own the design should be in track.  Otherwise a mark on the rail at the end of the planning length suffices. using association rail with a rail head width of 0.5mm  the planning lengths for 9, and 12 switches are 12mm and 16mm. I haven't come across 10ft switches so am unsure of the planning angle .

 

Don

[Argos]

1 minute ago, Donw said:

 

Geoff Jones design is a good jig.  There is one available from the Association or make your own the design should be in track.  Otherwise a mark on the rail at the end of the planning length suffices. using association rail with a rail head width of 0.5mm  the planning lengths for 9, and 12 switches are 12mm and 16mm. I haven't come across 10ft switches so am unsure of the planning angle .

 

Don

 

Thanks Don, 

 

My aim is the replicate the association jig, details of which are in the Association's track book. I'm just awaiting the delivery of some brass bar. 

The plaining angles can found in the switch detail in Templot, the 10 foot switch being the same angle as the 9 foot ones (I think, might be the 12 foot ones, I am away from my notes) 

[richbrummitt]

12 hours ago, Argos said:

More progress with the pointwork. All plain rails and crossings are now complete.

A wagon rolls through the crossing unhindered in both directions which bodes well, however experience suggests waiting for the switch rails to be installed before celebrating success.

 

 

Next up is to build a jig to ensure consistency when filing the switch rails.

I've made life hard for myself in the Templot planning stage by playing around with switch lengths and types to fit pointwork in the space allowed. This means I've a mixture of 9,10 and 12 foot heel switches to file up.

 

Interesting layout that you just couldn’t make from purchase and plonk track even if your weren’t at a super-niche gauge. Sounds like you’ve cracked it though: Usually it is the crossing that will cause trouble and not the switch. In my experience at least.
 

Most pictures got nuked from my layout thread. The jig I built up from scrap etch for ‘planing’ switch rails has a guard on to preserve the foot of the rail on the inside. It is easy enough to do. You will have handed rails so maybe two jigs (there are two apertures for rail in mine). 

[Argos]

Hi Richard, 

 

Actually my experience is different. Which speaks volumes on the quality of my previous track building. 

On my Glencruitten layout I got the crossings working reliably if a little bumpy but not the switches. 

This was down to not understanding the relationship of the plaining and the set with inevitable consequences. 

Reading the Association's track book was a real light bulb moment. 

 

Interestingly, I had read some of the other published books on track building but hadn't picked up on this. 

[Argos]

More progress has finally been made now I've built up my switch rail filing jig. It took a couple of orders to get the right materials due to measurement errors on my part.

 

All switch rails filed up nicely, I gave up using the recommended wooden block with grit paper and just used masking tape over the teeth to blank off the end section of a long file. that worked much better.

 

 

Rolling various wagons and chassis through the pointwork reveals only one area with an issue. The lead into the Carriage siding has aa wheel drop issue creating a slight bump. Given this is only going to be used by multi axle stock (six wheeled and bogie carriages) which should reduce the issue I'm inclined to leave well alone. I'll probably regret that though!

 

 

I know the below base board turnout units are available but I've never been convinced by this approach and prefer the tried and test moving sleeper method. The problem is in 2mm scale the PCB moving sleeper is narrow so significantly weakened by the hole for the point motor level. The result is that I had several tie bars break.

The solution came following a conversation with Keith Armes. His method was to use a piece of thin double sided PCB (0.25mm) laminated to a piece of thin strip brass. The PCB can still be gapped to provide electrical isolation and the brass strip adds strength for the point motor level.

 

These are now ready for installation, albeit I have to remake one as I've managed to de-laminate one of the PCBs, probably by using too much heat.

 

All that is left then will be to cut and fit the check rails.... the bank holiday weekend beckons!

[Caley Jim]

On 26/04/2023 at 08:43, Argos said:

 

 

 The lead into the Carriage siding has aa wheel drop issue creating a slight bump. 

I know the below base board turnout units are available but I've never been convinced by this approach and prefer the tried and test moving sleeper method. The problem is in 2mm scale the PCB moving sleeper is narrow so significantly weakened by the hole for the point motor level. 

(sorry, I can't seem to delete photos on my phone) Track in sidings was never perfect, so as long as things run through OK I wouldn't worry about it. 

Another issue with this type of tou is the switches becoming detached from the stretcher bar because of the flexing stress. I either reinforce the joint with a bit of brass shim bent into an 'L' or connect the two via a 'Z' shaped piece of p/b wire, which takes up the flex. 

 

 

Jim 

[VRBroadgauge]

I like your track work Angus.

I take it from the extended sleepers at the points you're modelling the point levers. How are you doing that?

I'll probably etch mine (like just about everything else I do).

[Argos]

11 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

I like your track work Angus.

I take it from the extended sleepers at the points you're modelling the point levers. How are you doing that?

I'll probably etch mine (like just about everything else I do).

 

In all honesty I haven't worked that out yet.

There are various etches of the straight lever type around but as far as I am aware the ball ended kick-over type aren't available.

 

I've had a couple of false starts at learning Fusion 360 with a view to 3D printing, maybe that will be the route, or some sort of scratch built concoction, I only need two (one of the points on the picture needs the sleepers trimming as it would controlled by the signal box).

[VRBroadgauge]

15 hours ago, Argos said:

 

In all honesty I haven't worked that out yet.

There are various etches of the straight lever type around but as far as I am aware the ball ended kick-over type aren't available.

 

I've had a couple of false starts at learning Fusion 360 with a view to 3D printing, maybe that will be the route, or some sort of scratch built concoction, I only need two (one of the points on the picture needs the sleepers trimming as it would controlled by the signal box).

Do you have a drawing of said ball ended kick-over type? Are you able to post it here?

 

[Caley Jim]

5 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

Do you have a drawing of said ball ended kick-over type? Are you able to post it here?

 

I have an etch for the McNee type the CR used

 

Sorry, I'm not at home just now so can't crop the picture. 

 

Jim 

[Argos]

11 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

Do you have a drawing of said ball ended kick-over type? Are you able to post it here?

 

 

I don't unfortunately, mind you I haven't tried to track one down yet either.

 

The levers I'm referring to are the Sommerson type (the models below are taken from the Roxey Mouldings website where they sell the old Southwark Bridge Models range in 4 and 7mm scale):

 

The type can be seen of this picture at Loughrea on the MGWR (note the sleepers extending under the parallel track running rail!:

 

 

and again at Kilfree junction:

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Argos

[Caley Jim]

That's not unlike the McNee, except the weight is the other way round, parallel with the lever. 

 

Jim 

[2mm Andy]

If I remember correctly, Ivan Smith at Southwark Bridge Models did get some etches produced in 2mm scale for some of his range of kits/bits (point rodding stools, bicycles, etc.). It might be worth sending an email to Dave Hammersley at Roxey to see if there were any 2mm point lever etches amongst the bits he acquired after Ivan's death.

 

Andy

Edited April 30, 2023 by 2mm Andy

[VRBroadgauge]

If you can track down a drawing of said lever (my reference library is mainly oz prototypes) I'd be happy to make you some Angus. I've got a long list of etches that I'm doing for my 10.5mm system and I can sneak these beasties onto some free space that inevitably occurs on the sheets that I have. I've been doing a few things for others in the Association.

Plus it'd be nice to contribute to the layout of another 10.5mm modeller. :)

[Argos]

8 hours ago, VRBroadgauge said:

If you can track down a drawing of said lever (my reference library is mainly oz prototypes) I'd be happy to make you some Angus. I've got a long list of etches that I'm doing for my 10.5mm system and I can sneak these beasties onto some free space that inevitably occurs on the sheets that I have. I've been doing a few things for others in the Association.

Plus it'd be nice to contribute to the layout of another 10.5mm modeller. :)

 

Thanks VRBroadguage that's very kind of you,

In conversations with Caley Jim we suspect his McNee point throw etches will fit the bill with a modicum of alteration.

[Caley Jim]

It should just be a simple matter of taking the weight off the lever (it's made by sandwiching the lever between two discs which fold over from either side) and adding two discs with central holes in them which can be sweated together and slid over the lever. As I've said to Angus, I'm in hospital at the moment after an op, but should be home later this week. I too have a sheet I'm trying to fill! 

 

Jim 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Caley Jim
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