Eurostar trains unable to change route at Ashford?

[Herr Dienstleiter]

My wife's journey home was lengthened by two hours last week because a non-stop Eurostar had to be reversed to Ebbsfleet when the drive realised that he was about to go through Ashford International instead of over the avoiding line viaduct. The Javelin my wife was travelling on also had to reverse back to Ebbsfleet to make room for the Eurostar's shunt.

 

I don't understand why the Eurostar could not have just gone through Ashford - slowly no doubt - and rejoined the correct route at the eastern highspeed junction. What am I missing here?

[Fat Controller]

If it was a Velaro (as it probably was), these have had 'issues' with either signalling or power supplies at Ahford International' I'm not sure of the exact nature of the problem, but suffice to say they are barred for the moment. Some works were carried out recently, but this hasn't resolved things sufficently to rescind the ban.

[Herr Dienstleiter]

Thank you ... does that mean that the Ashford stopping Eurostars are the older units?

[caradoc]

Another question; Why would the Eurostar have to return all the way to Ebbsfleet; Would it not simply be able to return clear of the junction at Ashford and then go forward on the avoiding line ? 

 

[phil-b259]

53 minutes ago, caradoc said:

Another question; Why would the Eurostar have to return all the way to Ebbsfleet; Would it not simply be able to return clear of the junction at Ashford and then go forward on the avoiding line ? 

 

 

Possibly because it had passengers waiting at Ashford who needed to board it. In such a situation it might well be that they had to go back to the domestic side o the station, catch the next Javelin service up to Ebsfleet and join the Eurostar service there.

 

Unfortunately ever since HS1 opened right through to St Pancras the management of Eurostar have tried their hardest to ditch Ashford as a stopping point - it has never lived up to the pre-channel tunnel hype and also requires trains that are compatible (to a degree) with the NR classic infrastructure used to access the international platforms at Ashford. As such the services that do call there are few and far between - so simply telling folk at Ashford to 'wait for the next train' is not an option.

 

Please note that as the majority of Eurostar services are formed of Valero units, plus the requirement for mandatory seat reservations - getting the original train to simply skip Ashford and divert the following service through there to pick up waiting passengers wouldn't be possible either.

Edited June 25, 2019 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

41 minutes ago, Herr Dienstleiter said:

Thank you ... does that mean that the Ashford stopping Eurostars are the older units?

 

Yup. class 373s only at present - of which there are not that many still in service, Eurostar having increased the original Valero (class 374) order to displace the majority of the 373 fleet rather than refurbish them all.

 

Currently I believe that the 373s being retained are only because services calling at Ashford, services to the Alps in Winter and services to he south of France in summer still need to be formed of the older stock

[caradoc]

phil-b259, from the OP the Eurostar was not booked to call at Ashford.

[Fat Controller]

5 hours ago, Herr Dienstleiter said:

Thank you ... does that mean that the Ashford stopping Eurostars are the older units?

Yes. 

[roythebus]

My cousin is a fleet engineer at Stratford and he says they're keeping a number of the old units for some considerable time. The new units have platform clearance problems at AFK.

[Christopher125]

21 hours ago, roythebus said:

The new units have platform clearance problems at AFK.

 

That surely can't be right, 374s did briefly work services through Ashford IIRC and there was even a press launch with Grayling on one of the platforms before they were suspended.

 

Kent News have recently reported that it was a 'power spike' damaging equipment on the new trains, and it won't be resolved until next year: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/power-spike-prevents-trains-stopping-at-station-206311/

[Fat Controller]

More likely, a power 'spike' from the unit affecting the fixed equipment around the station....

[lapford34102]

Hi Brian,

Just a thought but why didn't they use the Lenham freight loops for the "turnback".

 

Stu

[Fat Controller]

29 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

Hi Brian,

Just a thought but why didn't they use the Lenham freight loops for the "turnback".

 

Stu

Probably far too obvious....They do seem to have taken their time sorting this one out, though.

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

Hi Brian,

Just a thought but why didn't they use the Lenham freight loops for the "turnback".

 

Stu

 

Or, as I queried earlier, turn back at the London end junction for Ashford station - Surely the signalling on the CTRL is sophisticated enough to allow this ?

[The Stationmaster]

39 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Or, as I queried earlier, turn back at the London end junction for Ashford station - Surely the signalling on the CTRL is sophisticated enough to allow this ?

CTRL is fully reversible (or bi-directional) as far as signalling is concerned although what I don't know about is how easy it is to 'reverse' the signalling for a train already in a signal section.  But I would have hardly considered it to be a serious problem as it is quite possible on other TVM signalled lines.

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

CTRL is fully reversible (or bi-directional) as far as signalling is concerned although what I don't know about is how easy it is to 'reverse' the signalling for a train already in a signal section.  But I would have hardly considered it to be a serious problem as it is quite possible on other TVM signalled lines.

Depending how far the train has gone, then either a REFO (refoulement- setting back) or CHEX (Changement d'extremities; driver changing ends) should be able to be given: I've seen enough of the former to know that it is a relatively quick procedure, once every one has found the requisite numbered form. Both do require a route to be set to the rear of the train, but the spacing of trains shouldn't be that close for this to constitute a problem.