What's on your S Scale Workbench?

[Rosedale]

Brilliant Jim. I still have some of these wheels that Jim made in the SSMRS stores. They are very nice and I used a set on my NER Machine wagon which I sprung - Jim's parallel axles and bearings being ideal for springing. 

 

On a related note I now have the Willis 'Prickly Pear' sprung/compensated W Irons in stock in the Parts, likely to be £4.00 - £4.50 a set though due to the increased etching costs. 

[flubrush]

While I'm on a roll,  I thought I would put something on here about my sprung wagon underframes.  My wheel manufacturing was actually to provide wheels for these underframes.

 

The problem with springing wagons is that you need a fair amount of weight in the wagons to get the springs to work well.  With covered vans,  there's no problem in adding weight within the upper works,  but with any kind of open wagon,  you're stuck with whatever weight you can get into the underframe.   So I chose to make the underframe from brass section and I made up the parts by CNC machining them from brass sheet.

 

 

Here are the parts having been cut out with one set removed.   The reason for making them this way is that I can get sizes exactly to scale without having to mess about altering nearest size metric stock to suit.

 

 

Here are the solebars and headstocks of one underframe with a 10 thou nickel silver floor to fit in them.  There's a small rebate machined round the top inside of the solebars and headstocks to accommodate the floor.

 

 

I made up a small jig to ensure that the joint between a solebar and headstock was at right angles when soldered.   The other pair were also soldered in the jig then the two pairs are soldered together all square.

 

 

The completed underrame base with its floor.

 

 

Floors were soldered into the underframes...

 

 

...and the "W" irons are soldered in,  butting them up against the protrusion on the inner sides of the solebars,  and this sets the wheelbase for the wagon.

 

 

The springs are then fitted to the "W" irons...

 

 

...007" plain steel guitar strings - by far the best material for wire springs since they uncoil to be dead straight.

 

 

The bearing carriers,  wheels and axles are then fitted and this can be a bit of a fiddle getting the springs in the correct place.  But I'm getting better at it. :-)

 

 

I'm also fitting single ended S&W couplings,  and there's additional lead sheet ballast in the trough of the "W" irons.

 

 

And here's a rake of the underframes with couplings,  ready for some Caledonian van bodies and a brake van.      The buffer stocks are my 3D prints and I'm using the 12" buffers from Parts.   They are sprung using springs from Model Signal Engineering.

 

These underframes come in at around 38 - 40 grams in weight and that is just about right for the 0.007" springs with the bearings sitting about half way up the total 1mm movement.   If bodies get a bit heavier then there's 0.0075" and 0.008" guitar strings to deal with them.

 

 

 

I also did an underframe for the RCH wagon kit. :-)

 

One thing with this method is that the brass underframe sucks up heat and there's no way that a wimp of a soldering iron will be any use.  My 45W iron can just about do something if you hang around for a while,  but my 100W Weller,  my RSU and my small gas torch are more likely to be used.   Soldering to the nickel silver floor is a bit easier with lower wattage irons.

 

The other matter is attaching detail to the solebars and I'll do that by making the solebar sides,  probably in styrene,  with all the detail,  then gluing them to the brass underframe.  I've actually allowed for this in the width over the brass solebars.

 

Jim.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by flubrush

[Timber]

7 hours ago, flubrush said:

 

 

I have also been looking for a source of 2mm rod to make some more axles and it's not an easy material to source.  Susie pointed me to some EN1PB rod sold by MK Metals and I got some of that.  It machines beautifully,  but it is a bit rusty (pre-weathered :-) ) and is only 1.9mm diameter.   I also sourced some 2mm rod from far Eastern suppliers,  marketed as axles for model cars.  Here's a typical supplier

 

 

 

Jim.

Jim

 

I have a load of 2mm (1.98mm to be precise) axles.....I got them made in China....I can post you some.

 

But these are pin point so may not meet your requirements....

 

Maybe easier looking on Amazon and ebay for 2mm Dowel pins......you can get 100 2mm*45mm dowels for £11.00 (enough to make 50 wagons :-))

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Timber

[flubrush]

2 hours ago, Timber said:

Jim

 

I have a load of 2mm (1.98mm to be precise) axles.....I got them made in China....I can post you some.

 

But these are pin point so may not meet your requirements....

 

 

How did you get on specifying your needs to China?   And how were their prices. :-)  Paul may be interested for parts acquisition. :-)

 

I'm quite happy at turning up my parallel journal axles on the Cowells.  I've done it up till now just using a knife tool in the toolpost and working off the dials.  But I have a mind to try and make a tool to work from the tailstock.  I think I remember the late Colin Binnie describing one in Your Model Railways so I will have to have a thumb through my old mags to see if i can find the article.

 

Or I might get the Chinese to do them. :-)

 

Jim.

[Timber]

10 hours ago, flubrush said:

 

How did you get on specifying your needs to China?   And how were their prices. :-)  Paul may be interested for parts acquisition. :-)

 

Jim.

 

I used these guys...

 

https://szdakunlun.en.alibaba.com/index.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.88.17

 

after postage and tax they came in at 30p each.   If you look under their products they specialise in model railway wheels.....I did try them for tyres but they want very large quantities to get to a good price....

 

Proceed with caution, I have never had a bad experience on Alibaba but it is a more complex transaction than ebay.

[flubrush]

5 hours ago, Timber said:

 

I used these guys...

 

https://szdakunlun.en.alibaba.com/index.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.88.17

 

after postage and tax they came in at 30p each.   If you look under their products they specialise in model railway wheels.....I did try them for tyres but they want very large quantities to get to a good price....

 

Proceed with caution, I have never had a bad experience on Alibaba but it is a more complex transaction than ebay.

 

I had a quick look but couldn't quite work out the difference between some of their wheel alternatives. :-)    But their prices are good and a minimum order quantity of 1000 is understandable although I noted that some products had 500 or 100 minimum quantities.  I don't think I'll make use of them since I've got the time,  and I've got to make the Cowells pay for itself. :-)

 

I wonder if Barry might be interested in an article for the Gazette on how you negotiated your way around your order and whether a working knowledge of Cantonese or Mandarin was required. :-)

 

Jim.

[ScottW]

On 23/06/2023 at 20:07, Beechnut said:

Even less progress today, just the boiler which started life as an 11/4” diameter valve spindle!

 

 

 

Brendan

 

How did you find turning up your boiler? I have in the past thought about doing this but imagine it to be one massive heat sink if you intend soldering to it. What diameter is the the boiler and what thickness did you bore it out too? Did you drill out the centre or bore it? I assume you intend to glue/screw the chimney & dome on? And boiler bands?

 

So many questions. Cheers. 👍

[Beechnut]

Hi Scott

 

The boiler is .810” diameter with a wall thickness varying between.015” and .020”. It’s drilled to .375” and bored. The smokebox is a bit thicker with a wall thickness around.040”. Soldering won’t be a problem as I’ll probably use CA for things chimney and dome. The smokebox wrapper, and my GW rivet press arrived today, will be soldered but I’ll tin it and use a gas torch.

Boiler bands, same method as wrapper.

The last loco I built, a tender 3F, I rolled the boiler using .015”, hard to get a perfect circle using rolls. TBH brass would probably be a better material for boilers, and I find it takes paint better. It helps if you have some in stock!

Going back to the rivets, the last two locos I built, the J69 and the 3F were mostly scratch built and for the rivet detail I used Archers S scale rivets. I found it hard to make the carrier film disappear hence the purchase of the rivet press. I’ve done some test rivets today and it work’s very well. With my old method the metal always stretched causing problems, hence the decals.

 

I have done some more work on the J67 today, boiler drilled for clacks, frames painted ready for wheels. And talking of wheels, in the past I’ve made fixtures and used the lathe for pressing and quartering but his time I’m going to use the lathe and the coupling rods. It sounds like it’ll work in my head and will save having to make tooling.

 

[apl31]

I couldn’t resist starting the Furness tank etch, and it has gone together surprisingly well. I made a few errors and there are parts I would design differently, but for a first attempt at etching I’m happy. I don’t intend to rework design, not least because in colouring in artwork for etching I have deleted some of the original outline drawing.

The photo shows the etched parts with a few additional parts – wooden buffer beams, resin buffer, clock pins to represent the tapered handrails and some additional reversing lever detail. The model breaks down into separate parts for painting – chassis, footplate (grey primed), bunker, smokebox. The outer sandwich and cab side plate overlays will be painted separately and glued on.

   The main error was when producing “U” shaped parts for a frame spacer and smokebox former, they were too wide when folded up, requiring a bit cutting and filing. I forgot to transfer some common holes and slots on different layers, but I had one for reference. With hindsight I should not have added the side angle iron detail to the sandwich plate overlay and added top angle strips beneath the footplate, it looks a little “heavy”. It would have been much easier to add some sections of angle iron as required. My intention with to cab was to have etch detail for the inside then add strapping detail to the outside, however I prefer the etch detail on the outside. Unfortunately, there is a cut out for brake wheel which would be on wrong side. I may still do it and mirror cut out, the cab back shape is a guess anyway.

I am undecided how to make the firebox at present, with its brass beading on each end. The chassis needs more detailing and Im undecided how I’m motorising, pickups etc.. Ive 3D printed some detail parts including the spring hangers which were a nightmare to make in brass strip. Reading Ross Pochins articles in RM he had problems too, so I don’t feel too bad.

[ScottW]

On 28/06/2023 at 18:58, Beechnut said:

Hi Scott

 

The boiler is .810” diameter with a wall thickness varying between.015” and .020”. It’s drilled to .375” and bored. The smokebox is a bit thicker with a wall thickness around.040”. Soldering won’t be a problem as I’ll probably use CA for things chimney and dome. The smokebox wrapper, and my GW rivet press arrived today, will be soldered but I’ll tin it and use a gas torch.

Boiler bands, same method as wrapper.

The last loco I built, a tender 3F, I rolled the boiler using .015”, hard to get a perfect circle using rolls. TBH brass would probably be a better material for boilers, and I find it takes paint better. It helps if you have some in stock!

Going back to the rivets, the last two locos I built, the J69 and the 3F were mostly scratch built and for the rivet detail I used Archers S scale rivets. I found it hard to make the carrier film disappear hence the purchase of the rivet press. I’ve done some test rivets today and it work’s very well. With my old method the metal always stretched causing problems, hence the decals.

 

I have done some more work on the J67 today, boiler drilled for clacks, frames painted ready for wheels. And talking of wheels, in the past I’ve made fixtures and used the lathe for pressing and quartering but his time I’m going to use the lathe and the coupling rods. It sounds like it’ll work in my head and will save having to make tooling.

 

 

Thanks, Brendan for the explanation. Very insightful.

 

I once used a piece of copper tube, used in plumbing, for a boiler. Never again!! It was an absolute nightmare to solder onto. I didn't appreciate just how quickly the heat would dissipate and heat the whole thing up. The boiler bands kept popping off as soon as I touched the tube with the soldering iron, eventually I gave on them and opted to add them later during the painting stage. I found I had to treat it like a piece of whitemetal - low melt solder and don't linger with soldering iron.

 

One technique I have heard, when rolling your own boiler, is to roll the tube whilst it's inside an oversized piece of tubing. Obviously you would need to roll the tube to roughly the right diameter before inserting it into the tube, but this is supposed to help eliminate the short 'flat' sections you get when using rolling bars.

 

The 3F looks superb. 🙌

[Beechnut]

The 3F has a rolled boiler, my normal method, the turned example is a departure. When rolling I calculate the circumference, cut the NS to size and roll. Don’t get flats using this method. I used turned brass this time to give my drills an easy life.

 

Brendan

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Beechnut

[Beechnut]

A little bit of progress on the J67 today, the dreaded wheeling and quartering. So far I’ve only assembled the the rearmost drivers. I’m going to quarter the wheels using the coupling rods, a departure for me as I usually use a custom made fixture in the lathe. I’ll still use the lathe, purely as a press.

 

 

[Beechnut]

I can report that the quartering method, using the coupling rods worked. I made sure the rods were a nice fit on the crankpins, as little clearance as possible but free to rotate.

All the wheels are secured with Loctite 603 as well as being a press fit.

 

 

[ScottW]

Brendan,

 

Do I take it you quartered the rear driving wheels first, then lightly pressed the remaing wheels on their axles and tweaked them, back & fourth, to get them aligned with the holes in the connecting rods before pressing them fully home?

Edited July 7, 2023 by ScottW

[Beechnut]

Scott

I fitted the rear drivers first, easy enough to set at 90degree RH lead. The wheels are a press fit on the axles plus I use Loctite 603, so once they’re on they’re on! So when it comes to quartering it’s one shot which has to be correct. 
Previously I’ve made a fixture for the lathe for quartering, but as I’m a lazy so and so it thought I try and avoid that by using the coupling rods. Amazingly it worked ok! 
One wheel is already pressed onto the axle and the axles are machined to a length that also sets the correct back to back although I do check with the gauge.

So, the method, fit the rear coupling rods, the rods are articulated on the centre crankpin, triple thickness and a nice fit on the pin. Prior to pressing set the rods parallel to the frame, apply Loctite and press.

The press tool and anvil are machined just over 1/8” because remember the crankpins are fitted so to keep things square clearance is limited.

I’m always trying to think of a home brewed quartering method, the best I’ve come up with is to file a flat on the axle end. The wheel/axle needs to be a good fit but able to rotate. Set the quartering and fill the void with JB Weld, or your favourite epoxy.

Brendan

[flubrush]

I use a hand reamer to finish off the axle bores in driving wheels.  The hand reamer has a slow taper on the end and I only enter the reamer from the rear of the wheels until the full diameter is only cut for about 1mm and the rest of the bore toward the front of the wheel is still the taper of the reamer.   This means that axles can be fitted into the 1mm parallel section then the wheels can have a gentle press for the axle to start catching the taper.   You can now tweek the quartering until all is running well then the wheels can be fully pressed onto the taper.   It's also an easy way to get a nice press fit.   Before I did wheels this way it used to be real fiddle to get a nice push fit in a wheel bore that didn't need a four inch vice and a pipe extension on the handle. :-)

 

Jim

 

[Beechnut]

Jim

 

Thats exactly as I do. The reamer I use has a tapered section about 1/2” before the full 1/8” diameter. I have the tapered section marked in red felt pen so I know where I am when reaming. And like you I aim for the axle to enter the wheel to around half its depth which allows the wheel to be mounted and rotated for correct quartering.

 

Brendan

[Beechnut]

Motor connected and test run. It does run nicely and negotiates the test track points with no problems.

 

 

[flubrush]

Just to continue the wagon axle topic of a week or two ago,  I was pointed to another supplier on the Model Engineer forum...

 

http://www.m-machine-metals.co.uk/downloads/Metals catalogue.pdf

 

...and on Page 66 of their catalogue is 2mm diameter EN1A steel rod.   I haven't bought any of this product but the supplier has a good reputation on the ME forum so hopefully it is actually 2mm diameter and not 1.9mm diameter as is the rod from MK Metals.

 

Jim.

Edited July 8, 2023 by flubrush

[apl31]

Jim,

Thanks for the information on M Machine, unfortunately for me this is a week late. I spent a frustrating time last weekend stopping off at  various metal suppliers between Newcastle and Darlington  (where my son lives and where I now know M Machine is). They were either shut or didnt have what I wanted. I know, as my wife pointed out many times, I should have checked beforehand.

I will now commit M Machine to memory.

[Beechnut]

Having got a well running chassis sorted attention turns to the upperworks. The flat bits are easy, the curved bits not quite so easy, and then there’s the turned bits. So after making the smokebox wrapper using the recently acquired GW Models rivet press, the focus turned to the chimney. 
The first job is to study the drawing (MRJ35 resized to 1:64) and note the dimensions, these aren’t stated so it’s a case of measuring the drawing. The first part of the process, for me anyway, is to fly cut the the smokebox radius on the chimney base, followed by the radius leading into the chimney. For the former the work is held in the toolpost and the chuck for the latter. Then the taper up to the top radius, Turn up a mandrel (forgot to mention I’ve drilled the work 1/8”) and mount the the chimney followed by turning the rim and the top. Then open up the bore to something that looks right! I have photographed these processes if anyone is interested but I’ll just post the finished article.

 

 

[apl31]

Very good. Do those first 2 operations fly cutting and turning base produce final shape or do curves need to be blended?

[Beechnut]

Hi apl

 

The base is a compound curve so tricky to turn so that’s where a selection of needle file comes in. I’m not a museum standard modeller, as long as it somewhat resembles the prototype that’s good enough, for me anyway. 
Today it was the base for the safety valves, no Ross Pops straight on top of the firebox like the J69 but the original setup a la R24. Again the fly cutter was used but for the boiler diameter this time, files for the compound curve and then part off. Not forgetting pausing the part off to file a radius.

 

 

 

 

[Rosedale]

Very impressive Brendan, good clean, square work. And very enjoyable I bet!

[Beechnut]

Thanks Paul, enjoyable in a perverse sort of way. I’ve got Emwell at a show today and tomorrow, that I didn’t know I was going to till yesterday! Clay Mills Pumping Station if anybody is passing.

 

Brendan