Mk3 TGS usage

[ianmacc]

Hi. I have a Lima mk3 TGS in blue ‘inter city’ livery. Were these only used in HST sets or were they used in loco hauled sets too? I was wondering as it should say ‘inter city 125’ strictly speaking if that’s the case? 

I am hoping it’s useful for loco hauled services rather than liveried incorrectly but I cannot recall seeing them and would it negate the need for a proper guards van?

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by ianmacc
Clarified reason for question

[keefer]

HST only, I'm afraid. IIRC Lima left the '125' off all of the Mk3 coaches so they could 'represent' loco-hauled stock (there are a lot of detail differences between LH and HST types). This was OK for the TSO, FO and RUB but the TGS was only ever HST.

Edited August 3, 2019 by keefer
To add info

[D6975]

Three loco hauled Mk3b BFOs were built, 17173-5.  These were not exactly the same bodyshell as a TGS but were very similar.  Originally used on the WCML, they eventually found their way to the Great Western Night Riviera sets.

[ianmacc]

21 minutes ago, keefer said:

HST only, I'm afraid. 

Thanks for the quick response. One for the sales pile...

[ianmacc]

3 hours ago, D6975 said:

Three loco hauled Mk3b BFOs were built, 17173-5.  These were not exactly the same bodyshell as a TGS but were very similar.  Originally used on the WCML, they eventually found their way to the Great Western Night Riviera sets.

Thanks. This is numbered in the 44xxx series so is definitely HST. 

[Ken.W]

As has been said, yes, the TGS were always definately HST only.

The non-standard ETS system (415v 3-phase ac) would prevent their use as loco hauled stock.

They also lacked buffers (other than the van end of TGSs converted for the sets that used a 91 on one end).

Also, the TGS, rather than TBS designation is as they also lack any hand / parking brake, this is only provided by the power cars on the sets.

[298]

On 04/08/2019 at 21:10, Ken.W said:

As has been said, yes, the TGS were always definately HST only.

The non-standard ETS system (415v 3-phase ac) would prevent their use as loco hauled stock.

They also lacked buffers (other than the van end of TGSs converted for the sets that used a 91 on one end).

Also, the TGS, rather than TBS designation is as they also lack any hand / parking brake, this is only provided by the power cars on the sets.

 

I believe quite a few Mk3 TGS coaches received buffers on the Western in the 1980s as sets were often knocked out with a Generator car on and loco hauled. This would have required conventional couplings on either end of the set, and it makes more sense do designate the guards end of the TGS as one end and use the Generator van next to the FO as the converter at the other end.

[keefer]

I thought they just used a barrier coach (mk2 brake coach)?  The generator van used (ex-BG  ADB 975325) would act as barrier on the other end, as you say. The buffers were retracted to couple to the HST rake, with buffers extended and draw-hook available to couple to the loco.

The barriers were B4 bogied (genny van B5) which would allow them to be hauled at 100mph, this was enough as they would usually be hauled by cl.47 or 50 locos.

 

 

Edit: found a mention in other threads: 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124278-western-region-carriage-formationsworkings-intoout-of-london-mid-late-1980s/&do=findComment&comment=2779946

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83483-br-ic125-barrier-coach-formations/&do=findComment&comment=1383131

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by keefer