Hornby R3483/Class 08 shunting performance?

[thx712517]

Hello all, 

 

I'm looking for a shunting locomotive that excels at low speed creeping for my Inglenook. I'm interested in Hornby's R3484, an 08/13 diesel and I'm assuming that the five-pole motor and small diameter wheels will make it a good creeper on a DC layout. 

 

Is that born out in the real world? Are they heavy as-built, or is there a way to add more weight for more confident performance? 

Edited September 6, 2019 by thx712517
Clarity

[royaloak]

Can we assume the R3484 is a class 08 or is it some sort of steam engine?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Sorry, mistaken identity, no idea how a Sentinel performs.

Edited September 6, 2019 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
finger trouble

[thx712517]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Can we assume the R3484 is a class 08 or is it some sort of steam engine?

 

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Sorry, mistaken identity, no idea how a Sentinel performs.

I edited my post. I apologize for the confusion. The R3484 I'm interested in is a Class 08. I was mistaken in thinking it was a Class 13. I had searched the Hornby number and found a database showing when it was built (2016+, so recent) ND it was labeled as a Class 13 there. I'm over in the United States so my knowledge of British locos is always in need of improving, and shipping overseas has me looking for as much info as possible before buying. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by thx712517
Learning

[Dunsignalling]

* [There's precious little room for any extra weight in Hornby Sentinels, though they generally perform well at their prototypical task.

 

Shifting  a half-dozen or so wagons around the typical shunting-puzzle type layout won't present any difficulty. Mine is OK with up to about ten, but loading up a new one to that is probably inadvisable - thorough running-in is an essential investment for future good performance.

 

Always assuming, though, that your points have live frogs, they aren't at all happy travelling slowly over the dead sort.] *

 

John

 

Just read your update, the loco you mention is an 08 with the pre-D3xxx numbering in the 13xxx series. A Class 13 is actually a tandem pair of 08s (one with the cab removed) modified for use in hump yards.

 

These models are reasonably hefty as standard and will shift a couple of dozen wagons with little trouble so it should do for your purpose as-is, comments re running-in apply just as much to these as it would to one of the tiddlers.  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

Slow running should be fine, and it will have more than enough power for an Inglenook.  Make sure loco wheels, pickups, and track are clean and if you are using dead frog turnouts (set track and some Peco Streamline) make sure your turnouts are laid level and smooth to the adjoining track, and keep an eye on crud or carbon deposits that build up between the switch and stock rails where the current is transmitted.  Despite advice to use live frogs, my layout has dead Peco Streamline medium radius to simplify wiring, and runs very reliably with a variety of Bachmann and Hornby 6-coupled chassis.

 

If you are using setrack, the up side is that the dead frogs are shorter and less likely to cause trouble, but the curvature is sharper and will be pushing pickups and wheel sideplay to the design limits, perhaps beyond.  Make sure that flangeways are clear of debris and stray ballast.

 

FWIW, I think my Baccy chassis' are a bit better at slow running than Hornby's, but there isn't much in it. i remember the real 13633/D3633 at Cardiff East Dock...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

... I think my Baccy chassis' are a bit better at slow running than Hornby's, but there isn't much in it. i remember the real 13633/D3633 at Cardiff East Dock...

Seconded. It's the sprung centre axle in my opinion. For dead slow and reliable starts in DC operation the better choice.

Otherwise the Hornby mechanism pretty much replicated the Bachmann drive line spec, large five pole motor, flywheel, 40:1 gear ratio; once running at any speed indistinguishable, both will coast through any loss of pick up.

[The Johnster]

Seconded right back atcha 34; both mechs are first class performers but my general impression is that blue box has the edge.  But a good red box will beat a poor blue box; there is an overlap.  Difficult to quantify but my general impression is  also that Baccy mechs are less prone to picking up dirt on wheel treads and pickups as well, and that Hornby has the edge in tractive power especially when the models are new; Baccy wheels need to run in and roughen up a little to develop the loco's full potential.  But both are IMHO a safe pair of hands deze daze in terms of detail and performance.  

 

Slow running is more important to me than brute pulling power on a BLT with small trains, as is smooth starting and stopping and running at realistic speeds and rates of acceleration and deceleration.  My weakest link in this respect is a Hornby 2721, recent production, which took a massive amount of fettling to get it to run well and which is still banned from freight work and shunting because the slow running is not quite up to the mark.  It is, nevertheless, a very good performer; it's just that current standards or RTR running are very high indeed, and it is hampered a bit by 30 to 1 gearing.  A 42xx shows what H can achieve when they put their minds to it.  Let's be fair, the 2721 is fundamentally a Railroad model.

 

I managed a couple of whole sentences without a semi-colon; let joy be unconfined...

[TravisM]

Can I just ask, are you using DCC or good ole DC?  If your using DCC, for good running on 0-6-0 (or 0-4-0) chassis, I’d use a stay alive unit to alleviate problematic running through point work.

[thx712517]

7 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Can I just ask, are you using DCC or good ole DC?  If your using DCC, for good running on 0-6-0 (or 0-4-0) chassis, I’d use a stay alive unit to alleviate problematic running through point work.

DC on Kato Unitrack for the moment. Since I'm in the US using HO scale track, I don't have a chance to test locos beforehand and international shipping is a bit expensive. I had a poor experience with a Bachmann BR Class 03 that's normally known as a good runner, so I'm trying to find something absolutely solid. 

[TravisM]

4 minutes ago, thx712517 said:

DC on Kato Unitrack for the moment. Since I'm in the US using HO scale track, I don't have a chance to test locos beforehand and international shipping is a bit expensive. I had a poor experience with a Bachmann BR Class 03 that's normally known as a good runner, so I'm trying to find something absolutely solid. 

 

Kato track is pretty much bulletproof, so I wouldn’t thought you’d have much issues with slow running, just remember to keep the rails, pick-ups and wheels clean.

[thx712517]

18 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

 

Kato track is pretty much bulletproof, so I wouldn’t thought you’d have much issues with slow running, just remember to keep the rails, pick-ups and wheels clean.

It's looking like my Class 03 may have some sort of construction issue. Lumpy/surging low speed, and after thorough cleaning and lubing little improvement. Also a bit of a burnt electrical smell after running in for a while. I've emailed Olivia's Trains about doing a partial exchange, waiting to hear back from them on it. I've had good luck with Hornby steam engines but I've never run a Hornby diesel before. I've also got a Bachmann GWR 64xx that took a good bit of fiddling to get running smoothly, so I'm a bit Bachmann-shy at the moment. 

[Dunsignalling]

Bachmann locos generally work very well on shunting planks, but they need a lot of running in before being allowed anywhere near one if you want to optimise their performance.

 

The period specified in the instructions is just a start; the best shunting performance they can produce needs much more; x4 at least, and running up and down a length of track isn't the ideal way to do it. You really need access to a rolling road or a continuous layout/test track. Ideally the latter so as to be able to run the loco under load.

 

In my experience, Hornby locos seem to bed-in much more quickly but, whatever you choose, prolonged low-speed use on shunting duties does cause running quality to drop-off over time. Any loco will function much better if given an occasional canter as per the recommended routine for running-in, whenever you clean/service it.

 

John

Edited September 7, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

10 hours ago, thx712517 said:

... I've also got a Bachmann GWR 64xx that took a good bit of fiddling to get running smoothly, so I'm a bit Bachmann-shy at the moment. 

Sadly, Bachmann UK got no credit I could detect for including a sprung driven axle when possible on rigid chassis locos, and they dropped it (forever?) from new introductions after about 2010 (I think the last was the Peppercorn A2). As a result the 64xx (later introduction) isn't as reliable as the 57xx (one of the first of their 'Blue Riband' products). To this day the best steam mech in their range is the WD 2-8-0. Sprung driven axle either side of the gear axle, with a little fettling you can relieve almost all load from the gear axle, and it is a 'never fails' job for current collection.

[royaloak]

As others have already stated, the Hornby class 08 would be perfect for your needs, they also tend to be good runners even at a crawl, the Bachmann 08 would also suffice but is not normally quite as good as the Hornby offering although there isnt much between them and a goof Bachmann one would be better than a bad Hornby one.

 

The class 08 numbering series went 13xxx, D3xxx then class 08xxx.

 

The class 13xxx was basically 2 08s coupled together with one of them having had its cab removed and being remotely controlled by the other loco.

Edited September 7, 2019 by royaloak

[maico]

I've got a mixture of Ho Unitrack and Trix C-track. The Trix turnouts are all live frog as are the electric Kato standard turnouts and work well with everything.

The Kato wide angle turnouts though have very long plastic frogs that cause stalls on vintage 2 rail Hornby Dublo and some modern short wheelbase locos. Seems a real design error. Fleischmann Profi track and Peco Streamline turnouts also work better.

For some reason Kato don't even make curved turnouts or double slips in Ho which really limits the system compared to their extensive N gauge track IMHO

Edited September 7, 2019 by maico

[Clive Mortimore]

I have a good collection of Bachmann and Hornby class 08s, they all have problems with running if you don't keep the wheels and the pick ups clean. Earlier Bachmann models have terrible pick up problems. One Hornby model had to be returned as it gave off a high pitch whine. A couple of others have thrown a outside crank off.  I like both the Bachmann and Hornby models because when they run well they are good.

 

I still use one of my earlier Bachmann class 03s for testing new track and when I set up my exhibition layout, it runs well and shows up any problems with the track.

 

I have a variety of other makes of shunters, including some kits and some scratchbuilt ones. Not all are as good as the Hornby or Bachmann 08s, the Heljan 05 isn't too bad. Some of my scratchbuilt locos run as well as the RTR ones, not all do but they all run better than the kit built ones.

 

Models of short wheelbase locos will always have running issues if the track is unclean, and not level.

[D9020 Nimbus]

23 hours ago, maico said:

I've got a mixture of Ho Unitrack and Trix C-track. The Trix turnouts are all live frog as are the electric Kato standard turnouts and work well with everything.

The Kato wide angle turnouts though have very long plastic frogs that cause stalls on vintage 2 rail Hornby Dublo and some modern short wheelbase locos. Seems a real design error. Fleischmann Profi track and Peco Streamline turnouts also work better.

For some reason Kato don't even make curved turnouts or double slips in Ho which really limits the system compared to their extensive N gauge track IMHO

Unless something has changed recently, they don't do curved turnouts or double slips in N either.

[maico]

23 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Unless something has changed recently, they don't do curved turnouts or double slips in N either.

I stand corrected, I wonder why ?

[thx712517]

I've gone ahead and ordered the Class 08 in question as of this afternoon. I can't wait to get it and I'm praying it works as well as others have said. I was thoroughly humiliated at work today in a meeting in front of the entire building by some nasty coworkers and I need a win.