Trewisin Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Hi Richard. THose P4s Look grand .I have used railtecs decals on a few items myself and they are good. I think the artform for the 15tonners look really fine lets hope that the etches come out better. I am lookinf forwards to seeing a complete wagon in the future .As i said in my past blog im looking for about 10 wagons, some will have the old BACKWORTH logos and I would like to to acouple in dark blue a the rest in red oxide NCB . Best regards. RAY. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 Well, gosh. Two B6 turnouts, both of which (appear to) work perfectly. I confess I've been holding off laying actual track on an actual layout as my first two attempts were less than perfect, to the point (!) that I thought I just didn't have the knack for track. I may try and scavenge the bases and crossings from my unsuccessful attempts and do them again. Except they're PVA'd to a test plank, so any suggestions as to how to un-PVA them gratefully received. If at first you don't succeed... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted March 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Geordie Exile said: . hot water and or steam and a sharp wallpaper stripper a little at a time Nick B 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hi, Richard I think your braver than me .Great stuff if your point works are as good as the pictures I reacon you will be on to a winner with the wagons when the etches return. Keep up the good work.Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 The exterior strapping for one side of a P4. Each P4 has, as is traditional, two sides. And two interiors. Is there something inherently nuts in what we do for 'enjoyment'? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 17 hours ago, Geordie Exile said: Is there something inherently nuts in what we do for 'enjoyment'? Of course there is! We're all in our own wee world, but it's OK, they know us there! Jim 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 It's arrived. My first (how many of my posts contain those two words?!) wagon etch. It doesn't look as though I've left anything important in the post-etching soup. I'm busy on another batch of Fencehouse P4s at the moment, so it'll have to wait until at least, erm, the weekend 9 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Hi Richard. Thats simply magic. The first etch kits for RCH 16 ton special order wagons for Backworth colleries. I wondered why youve been quiet for a while, youve been bashing away at god knows how many old P4 kits. Are tou going to have the old BR 21tonners on your layout .? Just to keep you up dated , Ian Smiths layout Modbury 2 mm f/s has just appeared on u tube worth a look, Hes done a very fine job. No doubt you will be having an attempt to assemble your new wagons in the next few days ,look forwards to seein them . regards. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 PS Richard are they opening a new pub on the ols site of Fenwick called the Three anchors. noted on your etch. I also like the other small details railings and stairs. Ray . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 The anchors are for my missus who crafts - I had spaces to fill. I like the idea of a pub, but I'd call it The Windin' Hoose! I've got a dozen of the 21tonners to do. I started another 4 P4s to keep me going until the Backworth hoppers arrived - just the brake levers, stanchions and handrails to do, then I'll hold off painting them while I make a start on the lovely shiny new stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham R Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, Geordie Exile said: The anchors are for my missus who crafts ... Mighty cunning ... now you can charge the whole cost to the household account ... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Graham R said: Mighty cunning ... now you can charge the whole cost to the household account ... Think she'd notice - and a phrase which rhymes with anchor might ensue! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Hi Rchard, The only pub I can remember out Fenwick way was the Bee Hive a very popular pub on a sunday for lunches. That was over br Earsden if my memory serves me correct. Aw well well just have to crack on they say up north. The weather is starting to look a bit btighter here now and hoping it will warm up as well so I can get into my shed and start on my latest arrivals ww11 vehicles another transport project of mine in 2mm .Regards for now Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Geordie Exile Posted March 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2021 Not that I was excited or anything, but from etch to paint shop in three days is probably a bit of a record for me. Here are a few pics and comments on the trials and tribulations of putting my first self-designed wagon etch together. First things first. I spent an hour or so just staring at the etch, trying to spot anything that wasn't quite right. It didn't take long! - the fold lines on the main body only extended half way. My mistake completely as I changed the design of the ends half way through the process, and forgot to extend the fold lines. - none of the 0.3mm holes had etched through, nor had the notches for the brake gear. I need to get my head round what size hole on the drawing produces what size hole in the etch. - I had more tabs on the outside of the etch frame than I expected, and realised I hadn't hidden the tab layer when I produced the (reversed) artwork for the rear of the etch. A 0.3mm drill bit can fettle the holes, but the notches were useless. - all of my tabs are too wide. I'd gone with PPD's spec of 1mm, but could easily have halved this. More to cut, more to file, more chance for distortion. I started writing these down so I'd remember to fix them in v2. On to the build: the main chassis folded out nicely. The unique (?) open-ended design of these hoppers meant part of the frame is visible, but the way the coupling mounts fold down and out of the way means they're quite unobtrusive. It turned out that the notches for the brake gear were not only useless - they were in completely the wrong place! If I'd used them, the brakes would have been behind the wheels. So I filed off the tabs and held them in place with a spacer before soldering them: This method actually turned out much easier than trying to hold them vertical while soldering, as long as the spacer doesn't end up soldered. Like I did on the first one. The eagle-eyed reader will spot the spacer says "Fence Houses Model Foundry" - bits of the fret from the P4s I'd just done fitted perfectly around the top-hat bearings (thank you, Bob Jones!). I am seriously considering making this my standard way of fitting brake gear, with notches/tabs to get the alignment right, and a bespoke spacer that'll fit around the bearings. Here's a Haynes Manual (remember those?) exploded diagram of the method: Laminating the middle and cosmetic solebar was standard, but when I offered them up to the chassis they were 0.25mm too long at each end! More notes on the snagging list, and a little bit of filing sharp fettled that: I love how much detail etching can give - the bolt heads and other bits are so sharp, it's a shame to paint them! And the (not pictured) buffer beams have a folded element at each end that hides the mistake. Next the body. As I said, the fold lines were incomplete, so much scrawking and dremmeling ensued. The sides have a 45degree fold at the bottom, and I hadn't dared etch a fold line in as it was opposite a plank line and I was concerned it would etch through. I needn't have worried, so that's been added to the list too. More scrawking and dremmeling. Then the dilemma of when to add the strapping. I'd just etched lots of strapping the right length, with a view to supergluing them on. I decided to make the body first, which I did. The interior walls fitted really pleasingly inside the exterior, with easy 45degree folds. In hindsight, I should have fitted the interior strapping before soldering the body together, as it was quite fiddly to get them in and straight. And the next version will have lines etched on to show where to put the strapping. I'd put a dimple on the corner plates to show where the diagonal strapping started, but it'll be much easier to etch lines on the body itself for all of them. The corner plates themselves were fiddly, but I knew they were going to be. They incorporate an angle at the bottom, so the etch has a vee notched out of it to take this into account. First step was to fold them vertically into a right angle, then bend the bottoms inwards (after more fiddling and filing to get them to the correct angle). But the end result is acceptable: This picture also shows the stanchions, which have come out very nicely. I'd hedged my bets on the etch and included stanchions made up of 4 laminated layers a la the Fence House P4, but I also included a foldable version with boltheads etched on. I tried these first, marking the fold lines with a knife, folding them first with pliers then pinching them onto the edge of a metal ruler, and I'm delighted with the outcome. The open end is quite a feature. But before I get too smug, take a look from above: I can't imagine massive holes at all floor edges are prototypical. The next version will therefore include a drop-in floor to disguise the holes left by the coupling mounts and the solebar spacer tabs. Ho hum. And the internal lateral crossbeam was far too short, so this model now has a plasticard version! Finally, brake levers and hand rails, the latter of which I didn't bother etching as I've found that 0.3mm wire is more robust and less square, if a little bulkier. And this is the finished version: (and I've just spotted that an axle box has fallen off! B*gger. Fortunately, I included two spares on the etch!) I have thoroughly enjoyed creating this from scratch, in spite of all the things I got wrong. I've ended up with a snag list of 20 individual items for improvement or correction, but that was the point of doing it. My best hope was for a static model and enough learning to get the next version right, but with lots of guddling about, filing, drilling, scrawking and extemporaneous remodelling, I've got a wagon that, while not perfect, I'll be happy to see on my (future, still in my head) layout. Thanks for reading! Richard 13 1 1 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Richard, Congratulations on your first kit. It’s really quite satisfying to produce something that not only goes together (albeit with a few relatively minor issues) but also produces a useable model. The only full kits I’ve done are my 6 wheeled coaches and they too have minor glitches. Hopefully when I finally finish off my next artwork of permanent way wagons I’ll be as successful as you have been. Ian 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Great job, Richard. I know exactly how you feel and you have every right to be pleased with yourself. Trial etches are all about finding out the mistakes in the artwork and getting them sorted for the 'production' run. It took two sets of trial etches to get the fish van underframes I did for @Graham R and Simon before I got it right, though part of that was down to the fact that I was unfamiliar with the prototype. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Hi Richard , Thats a very nice model . At least you can say that you are the first to build a 2mm model of the RCH wagon for Backworth colleries even if you did have a few design problems. (no doubt RCH had the same faults when they built them.)If you are worried about the gaps in the hopper floor put some coal in it on a plasticard base it will make it look a 100% better. Best regards Ray. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 @Geordie Exile A valiant effort on a challenging prototype for a first go. I still forget 'features' and even complete components after several attempts at etching over the past 10 years. Very well done. I once worked with a collegue that told me that everything should be done twice because you only know what to do once you have already done it, and then it can be done properly. I think that definitely carries through with etch design. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 As part of the hopper test etch, I added some sheaves and walkways to enhance (I hoped) the heapstead. The previous sheaves were 3D-printed from Shapeways which were certainly finer than anything I could manage, but the etched versions are much more delicate again. The spindle needs a lick of paint, and I'll add some spacers between the sheaves: I also etched some safety rails for the steps up to the sheaves, and a ladder and roof walkway to access those steps. Possible the most delicate thing I've ever had to solder, and I'm now terrified that I'll squish them, but they've come out quite nicely: ...and once again the close-up shows the worst as well as the best! A squirt of matt varnish should take the shine off that rendered wall. Richard 13 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Hi Richard, Thats really looking good. I like the pit head it looks great. Ray. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 Gosh, I got me a rake. There's no escaping it, I need to start laying track. 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Great stuff, Richard. that pit head gear really looks the part. Only comment - those etched railings really show up the ones round the top! The wagons too look the business. I can see a bulk order going to PPD! The thing will be to work out the most economical way to do it depending on the best way to fit them on a sheet to get the most economical number on and then get multiple sheets. Calculating on the basis of one set of films and then multiple sheets from them, I generally find that for 2 sheets from the one set of films the cost per etched kit is about 60% of one sheet. For 3 sheets it drops to around 50% and after that there's much less of a difference as the initial tooling cost is a much lower proportion of the overall cost. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Caley Jim said: Only comment - those etched railings really show up the ones round the top! Yeah, yeah, I know! I'll correct (well, amend!) the hopper artwork and resubmit, so some replacement railings may well be added! The washery has similar railings which I might replace too. Mick's after some sheaves, so they'll be on the next one as well. Oh, and there's no access from ground level to the first set of ladders on the headstock... I'm going to end up with an A3 sheet just full of stuff to improve what I've already built. As for the origami, I'm pretty happy with how tightly one hopper's squeezed now, so working out the final (ha!) production run is just a question of tesselating rectangles. R 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, Geordie Exile said: As for the origami, I'm pretty happy with how tightly one hopper's squeezed now, so working out the final (ha!) production run is just a question of tesselating rectangles. I was thinking more in terms of how many you put on a sheet and then how many sheets you get done from these films. For example if you want 30, will it be cheaper to get 3 sheets of 10, or two sheets of 15 done? As far as I can tell, the repeat cost for etching from the same films is the much same whatever the size (within limits). Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewisin Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Morning Richard. You have been busy this week,Yes they do look great I think you may have got something there. Can i have a set of sheaves as well as about 10 wagons when you go into production. If the hand rails come on the etch that will be a bonus.I hadnt realised that you were going into a fell production run ,i thought it was supposed to be just a tesr run. I also like what Caley Jim said .Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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