Imaginary Locomotives

[62613]

5 hours ago, Niels said:

It is not a poppet valve gear but four low-mass piston valves per cylinder.

Try to find  the drawing in first link.

 

Cossart balance rod

Awful lot of stuff going round and round!

[Niels]

5 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Awful lot of stuff going round and round!

Two extra balance rods.

Benefit is very much less uncomfort and destruction of crew,locomotive,train and permanent way.

A K1 can then do anything better than a B1 and is 10 tons lower mass and cost.

[Guest]

Alternate version of the Class 47, fitted with Orange Square multiple equipment and Class 50-style roof-mounted head code boxes. I first got the idea from looking at their Cuban-export counterparts (the T975) and the Class 57/6 conversions and here is the end result (using drawings from elsewhere). Though to be honest, I'm not really sure about this idea, so I don't mind any criticism:

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Guest

[papagolfjuliet]

On 25/10/2023 at 13:34, Johnson044 said:

Here are some extracts from The Chronicles of Boulton's Siding, with some known history, a drawing of the loco after IW Boulton had rebuilt her and a photo - Ophir is the loco on the right.

 

What wonderfully simple, almost toylike engines to model. Hornby Caley Pug less cab, a bit of plasticard, and a cut down Tri-ang Nellie chassis and or even a Tri-ang clockwork chassis for something marvellously old-fashioned...

[rockershovel]

On 10/11/2023 at 18:53, Niels said:

There are  pictures in a Q1 book  ISBN 0954485912 page 16 and 17?

 

Caprotti then?

Italian inside Caprotti

 

or

 

Stephenson

Outside Stephenson

 

or

Walschaerts

Waelschaerts outside to inside

 

 

That Italian loco... I don't know what it is about Italian steam locomotives, but the national genius for style and design seems to have entirely left the arena. 

 

 

[Niels]

10 hours ago, rockershovel said:

That Italian loco... I don't know what it is about Italian steam locomotives, but the national genius for style and design seems to have entirely left the arena. 

 

 

The picture was meant to show that Caprotti on Q1 was possible and would have been more user friendly.

Franco Crosti was ugly everywhere.

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, Niels said:

The picture was meant to show that Caprotti on Q1 was possible and would have been more user friendly.

Franco Crosti was ugly everywhere.

Well, yes... but the whole thing, rods flapping around, no running board,...

[Niels]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Well, yes... but the whole thing, rods flapping around, no running board,...

The italians tried to improve performance.

A4,MN ,BoB&WC used tinplate to hide lousy engineering (valve drive).

Edited November 13, 2023 by Niels

[rodent279]

8 minutes ago, Niels said:

The italians tried to improve performance.

A4,MN ,BoB&WC used tinplate to hide lousy engineering (valve drive).

Ooh, controversial! You're braver than me!

[rockershovel]

5 hours ago, Niels said:

The italians tried to improve performance.

A4,MN ,BoB&WC used tinplate to hide lousy engineering (valve drive).

Inside cylinders with outside valve gear never really rang any bells. It remained on the margins of European design, flattering to deceive for many years - the LNWR once experimented with it - but to no real effect. 

 

Exotic boiler designs were another European chimera which never really justified themselves. 

 

Chapelon was a real genius, a true innovator and his keynote designs look rather magnificent. 

[Niels]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Inside cylinders with outside valve gear never really rang any bells. It remained on the margins of European design, flattering to deceive for many years - the LNWR once experimented with it - but to no real effect. 

 

Exotic boiler designs were another European chimera which never really justified themselves. 

 

Chapelon was a real genius, a true innovator and his keynote designs look rather magnificent. 

Inside cylinders with  mostly outside valve gear pulled worlds fastest commercial  steam train in Belgium.

https://www.altaplana.be/en/dictionary/12.004

 

GWR surpassed everybody in crazyness,building fourcylinder locomotives with two inside valve-gears in 1950.

 

GWR also sired a lot of exotic/expensive  boilers  with corners and tapers everywhere and never proven superior to anything.

 

But Your evaluation of Chapelon will be true in all eternity.

Lovely

Edited November 14, 2023 by Niels

[Guest]

On 06/07/2018 at 11:59, Clive Mortimore said:

These have had less work done on them than the EE locos.

 

D71xx, BR Type 3 1500hp. A BR version of the class 33, a cross between class 24 and 25/3 bodies with Sr type headcode in the middle window.

 

D72xx, BR Type 3 1700hp. BR's own answer to the class 37 with a uprated 8 cylinder Sulzer engine.

 

D79xx, BR type 2 1250hp A1A-A1A for lightly laid lines.

 

D12xx, BR type 4. BR's own answer to a lighter Type 4 had the Brush 4 not been produced.

 

D14xx, BRCW Type 4. This is what Lion could have looked like had the design team not stepped in.

 

D666, NBL Diesel Electric Type 4.

 

D92xx, Bayer Peacock Type 5. This one of many proposals for high powered diesel hydraulic locos. 

 

D73xx, Brush Type 2, a Bo-Bo loco with a 6 cylinder Sulzer engine, an alternative to the BR and BRCW class 25s and 27s.

 

D77xx another Brush Type 2 with a Sulzer engine.

 

Finally D9621 and D9838 again

Hey there Clive, I know that this is now a few years old but is there any chance you could repost this? Since the original images can't be shown.

 

Thank you! :)

Edited November 18, 2023 by Guest

[Budgie]

On 14/11/2023 at 03:08, Niels said:

GWR surpassed everybody in crazyness,building fourcylinder locomotives with two inside valve-gears in 1950.

 

How did they do that? They no longer existed in 1950.

[rodent279]

Suspect either the author meant 1905, when North Star appeared, or that a larger version of essentially the same engines were still being built in 1950.

[JimC]

The choice of inside valve gear on the GWR four cylinder locomotives had some advantages too. I don't think there is actually room for rockers behind the cylinders. A significant advantage of having the gear inside was that it gave much more flexibility in layout without the wheels to consider.  If measurements and sketches I made a few years ago were correct then it would actually be impossible to have outside valve gear driving the inside cylinders of the Star and Castle without considerable changes to the locomotive layout and/or valve gear setup.

[The Johnster]

The last of the Castles, 7037 Great Western, which had been ordered by the GWR so might in that sense be considered to be a GWR locomotive, was built in 1950 by the Western Region of BR at Swindon Works.  The WR wanted to build more Castles to replace the remaining Stars, which were withdrawn over the next few years, but the Board insisted (rightly) on providing the BR standard 7MT design, the Britannia class, which were introduced in 1951.  The batch from 70014 to 70029 were build for the WR and named after GW broad gauge engines in an attempt to mollify the region.  The first of them, 70014 Iron Duke, was sent new to Old Oak Common, but coincidentally this was at a time when the Southern Region's Merchant Navy class were being withdrawn for modifications and Old Oak contrived to lend the loco to Stewart's Lane and 'forgot' to ask for it back; it remained there for many years as understudy to 70004 William Shakespeare on the 'Golden Arrow' turn. 

 

After this minor victory, the Board made sure that the other Britannias all went to the region, where they were very poorly recieved (the drivers didn't like the left hand drive and the firemen had to shovel a ton more of coal than they had to with a Castle).  Canton shed however had a lot of use for a 2-cylinder uphill slogger, a task the Brits were very good at, and took to them; this resulted in the Newport Area Manager stating at a meeting in 1955 that if the other Areas didn't want them he'd be happy to take on as many as they could spare; the entire class was immediately transferred to Canton and the other sheds got the Castles they wanted in return.  Canton kept the Brits until 1960, at which time they got the locos they'd been asking for since 1927, the Kings.

 

Similarly, the WR requested more 2884s instead of 9Fs, and more 5101s instead of Standard 3MT tanks.  The last locos built to GW order were the 16xx in 1954, though some 94xx were built in that year as well.

[NZRedBaron]

So, I'm sure that many here are familiar with Gresley's 4-8-2 heavy express passenger engine proposal, yes?

 

How might one go bodging one together, do you think?

[Flying Fox 34F]

Do you want to bodge together a full-size one or 4mm scale?  
If the latter, I built one out of 1 1/2 Hornby A3’s, back in 2014.  Images may still be on the LNER Forum website.  The coupled wheelbase ends up 3mm too long compared to the Doncaster drawing, but it looks the part.  It’s currently in storage with all my other models and equipment!

 

(Sigh)

 

Paul

[Flying Fox 34F]

Your in luck NZ Red Baron,  I managed to track down an image of my Mountain.

 

Paul

[John Besley]

1 hour ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

Your in luck NZ Red Baron,  I managed to track down an image of my Mountain.

 

Paul

 

Clever... really needs a double chimney as the smokebox looks too long

[The Johnster]

I think the firebox needs extending as well, which would make it a 4-8-4 to keep the rear drivers ahead of it.  Another boiler ring to make sense of the smokebox and the wasted area ahead of it.  We are into mechanical stoker territory here, gentlemen, and possibly bogie tender as well.

[rockershovel]

Surely all the details are established? The "Hush-hush" 4-6-4 had its frames shortened by 18" and was fitted with a boiler (presumably including the firebox, under the circumstances) based on the 2-8-2 "Wolf of Badenoch". The firebox was extended 7.5" but subsequently shortened again. 

 

Which all suggests the most common, photoshop variant of the Gresley 4-8-2 - an A3 with an extra boiler band and double chimney - is not far out.

 

For the really pernickety, add about 3mm to the firebox at the leading end, and prepare for a long evening with the fretsaw making sense of the splashers!

[Flying Fox 34F]

Some interesting responses to my rendition of a Neverwazz Gresley Mountain.

According to the diagram, the boiler is basically an A3 uprated, coupled to a P2 Firebox, which extends further back into the cab, (pity the crew on what’s left of the footplate).  
The smoke box on my model is 2mm longer than designed, due to the coupled wheelbase length as mentioned above.  I agree it looks wrong with a single chimney, but the LNER would have to pay the Patent fee for another locomotive with a Kylchap double blast pipe and chimney.

 

Paul

[Clive Mortimore]

On 17/11/2023 at 19:13, R. Knowles said:

Hey there Clive, I know that this is now a few years old but is there any chance you could repost this? Since the original images can't be shown.

 

Thank you! :)

Hi ya

 

They have been restored and so have the English Electric ones from the previous post.

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi ya

 

They have been restored and so have the English Electric ones from the previous post.

 

Okay cheers for that! 👍 :)