Creating and saving layouts in z21

[Richard Booth]

Hello, I have just joined rmweb.  I am building a mixed DC and DCC layout and using z21 (Fleischmann/Roco boxes and app) to control the DCC.  I want to create a layout within z21 and save it, but if I do 'select layout' and then 'Empty Layout' in an attempt to get started, z21 (v. 2.6.9) app just aborts.  I tried Google for help on this, but found nothing useful, hence I am here.

 

I hope it will be easy for someone to help me on this.

 

Thanks, Richard.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Richard Booth
The old title was unhelpful

[BoD]

Hello Richard and welcome.  I can’t help with your issue but you may get more responses if you edit your first post and change the title to something more descriptive of the problem

[Richard Booth]

BoD: thanks, I had misunderstood the meaning of "title" (silly me, late at night), so I've done as you suggested.

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

Are you using the Android app or IOS app?

I have just tried this on my iphone and ipad and there are a few differences to what you are reporting.

 

First the App version is 1.21., not 2.6.9?

From the main screen the button is "Layouts" not select layouts. If I press that  then at the bottom there is a Import button and a "+" button to add a layout. I press "+" and  then select empty layout and when I press the back arrow "<" the new layout appears in the app.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[WIMorrison]

Can you post a screenshot of the app you are using as there are 2 versions and going by the info you provide you may be talking about the old Z21 Mobile app not the newer Z21 app.

 

They operate completely differently hence the need to know which app you are talking about

[jpendle]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Can you post a screenshot of the app you are using as there are 2 versions and going by the info you provide you may be talking about the old Z21 Mobile app not the newer Z21 app.

 

They operate completely differently hence the need to know which app you are talking about

I had a look at both on my phone and the old app does not have an "Empty Layout" button when creating a new layout, so I assumed the new app. Neither app on IOS ia at 2.6.9 though.

 

John P

[Matt C]

Ok I think you are using the old Andriod App. When you click on 'choose Railroad layout you get a list, The top item is indeed 'empty layout' but the same as you when I click on it the App crashes. The new App works fine so my suggestion would be to go to the App store and download the new App (black Icon with white Z21 written on it, not old Icon with blue/light blue background and a red loco on) then try again  with that App

[Matt C]

Ok I've just had a play around with both versions of the Android App. In the old App I CANT create a new layout, In the new App I can.  I can Export the newly created layout from the new App, delete from the App and re import it. It imports and opens fine BUT if I try importing it from the new App, into the old App I get a message to say the import failed due to a corrupt file.  So has Rocco changed something in the new version that means its no longer backward compatible with the old App ?  Not sure why that would stop a layout being created in the OLD version though. Anyone else seeing this ?  Not tried on Ipad yet as its out in the railway shed

 

Version of old App is 2.6.9

Edited October 7, 2019 by Mattc6911
Version number added

[Richard Booth]

Hey thanks guys; I downloaded the z21 app back in January or February - do you know when the "new" one came out?  Anyway I'll try upgrading.  I expect I may lose my locos from it, but there are only 3 of them.

 

[Richard Booth]

OK, I've got the white on black Z21 app now, version 1.2.1(4547).  It hasn't picked up my 3 old locos, but given me 12 random ones (which can go in the bin).  Time for a play.

 

I'm impressed with this site.

 

[WIMorrison]

21 minutes ago, Richard Booth said:

Hey thanks guys; I downloaded the z21 app back in January or February - do you know when the "new" one came out?  Anyway I'll try upgrading.  I expect I may lose my locos from it, but there are only 3 of them.

 

about 2  years ago

Edited October 7, 2019 by WIMorrison

[Richard Booth]

I suppose I must have downloaded the inferior version back at the beginning of the year.

 

The good news with the new app is that on my Android phone I have been able to set up locos, points and uncouplers with it, then under Layouts tap Export, and was able to send it to our Nexus tablet, and to prove it worked ran trains from there.

 

The bad news is that with the old app I could import a .png photo (of my layout design) to the layout, using the Camera icon, but with the new app I don't see any way to do that.  Do I have to construct it approximately with the app's objects for curves and straights etc?

[WIMorrison]

'fraid so

[Richard Booth]

OK, and oh dear - I spent quite a bit of effort just to get that image from my laptop to my phone.  But thanks for being so quick to confirm it.  And anyway I can afford to be a bit less accurate and more "representational" with the Z21 layout picture.

 

[Phil S]

I'm still hoping that the ability to import a background image will reappear ... If only to assist in laying out an overall scheme tidily and efficiently. ( Adding in the animated points and track on top of scenery and platforms etc).

 

Note that, although their examples always showed photos of parts of the layout, they can equally be ANY jpg image ... Such as from a drawing package  allowing easy drawing and labelling of the layout .... (Eg edited pictures)

 

But having said that, the newest version CAN produce some reasonable looking track results ... But it is a bit tedious producing 180degree rotated viewpoint versions as there is no overall rotate/move control ( that I have discovered ).

The multiple page approach  and 'locked' display modes are useful.   So far, we tend to use the tablet (10.6") as the track display with Multimaus for loco control .... 

[Richard Booth]

A week or so later, and I have done some good stuff, and now have a layout with 15 points and 16 uncouplers, but have some further questions and observations.

 

First, I agree with Phil's comment on rotating 180 degrees, though I did find the "snapping to angle" feature helped with that (is that what he meant by locked display?).

 

Second, is there actually any documentation anywhere, or is the principle with apps that you just explore and see what you can do?

 

Third, import and export is now weird.  You can export to another device, though I found that only worked on my Z21 network and not on my main Wifi (a port issue perhaps?).  Or you can export to "shared" which I have used to backup the layout to Dropbox.  But for import, available when trying to create a new layout, you can only import from SD card.  So other than the device option, there is no reversible route!

 

Fourth, some of my points are sharing addresses, by virtue of the output wires going to both, so both will change together.  So I was really disappointed when Z21 app did not notice this and change them together!  Of course, you can create a "route" to do this, but that's just an extra hassle.

 

I hope that Phil might see this and have some comments.

 

 

 

[WIMorrison]

export and import via email, that way you have another copy as a backup.

 

what do mean about same addresses? Youc angive every turnout on the layout the same address and have them all switch at the same time, though that isn't adviseable. If you want 2 turnouts to chanage as one then simply give them both the same address.

 

The Z21 app doesnt 'notice' anything, it merely does what you tell it and assumes that the same has happened on the layout, t here is no feedback.

[Richard Booth]

Iain, when I do + in Layoutmanagement, I see 'Demo layout', 'Empty layout', and 'Import from SD card', but nothing about email.

 

I did give two turnouts the same address.  The problem is that when I go into run mode, and click on one turnout, it changes, but the other one doesn't change in the Z21 app, whereas on the real layout it will (I think, I haven't actually tested it yet as the layout is under construction).

 

BTW I love your animated Mobius strip!

 

[WIMorrison]

When you open the email attachment on your tablet/phone choose to open it with the Z21 app.

 

If you want them both to change on the mimic at the same time then you are correct and you will need to create 2 x routes, one for straight and one for branched.

[Phil S]

Since the app will automatically update to reflect ANY point changes made by other devices such as multimauses and other tablets ...... Once it is LIVE on the Z21 then I think you will find it corrects itself by changing all representations.  ..... 

In Rocomotion I have this work ...even off line ( in offline mode) ...and I would expect to have the same action. .. ( as I would also like to drop in my background graphic again too !!!).   I will try to test this later today ...and MultiCentralPro as a slave into the Z21.  )

 

 

For the 17m G scale layout I currently have set in the Z21 app it only had 1 crossover release road and I chose to keep them separate in case another train was blocking the 2nd point  ( and the entire layout was running off the Z21 track power supply with LGB 2-wire 'half turn' point motors.. So 1 at a time was minimising current).   Only 3 stations with 17 points and 3 powered uncouplers. 

 

Rotating 180: 

Although individually the click stop rotate is useful it does not automatically produce neat alignments matching the point exit angle.  The 180 I meant was to rotate the 'whole' diagram or selection of it (group objects missing)  so that the view from the other side is easily produced.  ... For my other layouts with over 30 or 100 points (and then signals) this is something I'm not looking forward to .... They use Rocomotion diagrams at present. 

 

(Roco may expect you to simply rotate the tablet with auto rotation disabled .... But text would them be upside down 8-( )

 

The z21 display lock is very useful ....as it means I have the option of drawing it all in one page and then zooming it to show only 1 section and then 'locking' it ... So it can be touched freely..... In the 17m g scale example we had tablets at each end, and zoomed to their station ....equally you can use the z21 pages.   But we operated with LAN multimauses for locos and tablets for points ( until they went flat and we reverted to points on multimauses ) 

 

( 12-24V input to 5V DC efficient buck converters are available , and have now been bought, to power / recharge the tablets from the layout when needed without extra tension leads or power supplies )

 

'Off Topic': I used to use a 24" iyama touch screen for my layouts ... But that expensive and HEAVY model is no longer supported by current windows ... So my alternatives have been the Android tablets with Zz21 or now a 12.5" Linx 12X64 touchscreen tablet/laptop (5V 2A) and a 'drop on' shelf support attached to the layout's frame which allows me to continue running Rocomotion (as well as RISCOS under emulation).

( and 'duplicate' lightweight 40" led screens for viewing the track plan across the loft and controlling it from wireless multimauses )

[WIMorrison]

The app responds to changes issued by other events because the Z21 is seeing the command packet for the turnout to switch and the Z21 reports this to the app therefore the turnout changes on the app.

 

I can however confirm that when  connected to a Z21 2 x turnouts with the same number will change synchronously on the switchboard reflecting the state of the layout.