DR5013 Digikeijs Reverse Loop Module

[model-trains]

Hi guys

 

I am just seeking a little help/guidance with installing the DR5013 Digikeijs DigiReverseLoop module

 

I have two loops in parallel, but will naturally be separate, each with it's own DR5013, so here I just ask is the following correct for one loop?

 

The first image I have taken from the manual

 

 

 

This image is based on part of my layout with DR4088LN and DR5013 included

 

 

Please ignore the coloured track other than, everything left of the IRJ's is wired as brown, everything right of the IRJ's is wired as blue.

 

There is power from the DCC Bus to the DR54088's which has not been shown on here

 

Would you say the suggestion is correct or have I missed something?

 

[model-trains]

I think I see an error the wires to the DR5013 are the wrong way round

 

To make it clearer I have changed the magenta wire to dark green, the red and magenta on screen looked similar.

 

The DCC Bus if from the Digikeijs DR5000 Controller

 

Hopefully it will be nearer, does this seem right?

Or have I got something else wrong? Or missed something? 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by model-trains

[WIMorrison]

Looks ok to me

[model-trains]

On 22/12/2019 at 16:13, model-trains said:

Hi

 

I like to have multiple feeds on a length of track in a block, if I was to have 3 pairs of wires in the loop section, would it be fine to take all 3 blue and 3 yellow wires to a cable connector, then connect the cable connector direct o the DR5013. That would keep the reverse loop feeds the same in the loop section and there should be no conflicts when the reverse feed changes. Hope I am making sense.

 

On 22/12/2019 at 16:13, model-trains said:

 

 

 

[Grovenor]

Yes.

[WIMorrison]

That will work as I said before but given they way you are using it with the return look why not use the features of the DR5013 which will change the turnout for you and also change the polarity without using the short method which you are currently set up to use.

 

There are cheaper methods to active the auto reverse using the short method than using a DR5013 - which will also provide feedback over Loconet. Seems silly to spend ~£100 and not use the capabilities that are built into the unit when you have a classic case which is was designed to support.

[model-trains]

I have 4 DR5013's ready, inner loop and outer loop at both ends.

 

I have simplified the turns from board-1 to board-2 by removing 4 points, his also lengthened the blocks which is also better. So the two tracks on the straight run at the station are 1.8 and 1.9 long, the reverse loop sections are now increased to 1.8 and 2.0m.

 

Standard block length at station to Feedback(s)

IRJ________________F____________________IRJ______________F___________________IRJ

IRJ________________N____________________________________N___________________IRJ

 

Reverse Loop block section to DR5013

IRJ________________RLa____________________IRJ______________RLb___________________IRJ

IRJ________________RLc____________________________________RLd___________________IRJ

 

Wires in Reverse Loop,

RLa and RLb together

RLc and RLd  together 

 

Can I still split the Reverse Loop section with IRJ in middle, as I do on standard block lengths? Or do I have to leave the middle IRJ out?

 

[WIMorrison]

Punt in IRJs or leave them out - your choice - as long as you have IRJs on both rails at both ends

 

[model-trains]

Regarding the loops

 

IRJ__________S__________S_________S_________S___________IRJ

 

I have 4 feeds in the reverse loop length, each join at a cable connector then wired to DR5013.   

 

These are 4 supplies within each block, no feedbacks, I take it I don't need feedback on the mimic track?

 

So the mimic track will just show onscreen

 

IRJ__________________BLOCK NAME___________________IRJ

 

Block Name also including description, length, free track and electrified

 

Am I on the right track? 

[WIMorrison]

As we dont know what program you are running for the mimic board we cant say whether that is correct (or not), however regarding feedbacks - that is what the DR5013 provides for you.

[model-trains]

I have 4x DR5013 Reverse loop modules, 2 for each end.

 

2 are connected and wired as per the diagram.

 

When I double click the DR5013 icon, it confirms it is in demo mode?

 

How do I set these up, do I have to disconnect them and register each one, one by one?

 

I am using iTrain 5.0.5

Digikeijs Command Central DR5000

Digikeijs Feed back Modules DR4088LN

Digikeijs Reverse Loop modules DR5013

 

[WIMorrison]

iTrain cannot see a DR5013 and has no knowledge of the polarity changing that it performs. You can use the DR5013 as a feedback by putting the feedback address into then DR5013 and using that same address in iTrain as the address for the feedback. You then use this feedback in the block and iTrain treats the block like any other block.

 

You access the internals of the DR5013 to make the change of address etc using the DigiKeijs program that you download and install on your PC which you then connect to the DR5013.

[model-trains]

Thanks Iain

 

Am I best to add 2 feedbacks and 1 block name with length etc, like a normal block?

 

/______F_______Block_____F_____/

 

Running the 2x F to the DR5013 terminal?

 

At present if I start a loco in block before loop block, it shows an orange line from previous block, through rev.loop block and into next block after the loop, but loco doesn't show progress from one block to another?

 

[WIMorrison]

To use the DR5013 as you want it is track bus in and 2 wires to the track. 
 

you do however have to configure the DR5013 to operate in the mode that you want and also configure the feedback address which reports back via Loconet connected to the DR5013

[model-trains]

A little nearer I think but...

 

The first reverse loop is on the inner track of the bottom loop.

 

When the loco is in the reverse loop block the feedback shows as a red box.

 

When I move the loco onto the outer loop, this doesn't happen?

 

The DR5013's are set up as Module 1 and module 2

 

The inner loop is RLB101 - with address 101

 

The outer loop is RLB102 - with address 102

 

Other than the addresses being different the only other difference is Module  and module 2.

 

Struggling here?

 

Although the issues are Digikeijs set up of reverse loops, would it help to add a layout file on iTrain?

 

[WIMorrison]

you need to work out whether the issue is with wiring, DCC/Loconet or with iTrain.

 

Ignore iTrain and confirm that the feedbacks show correctly in the DR5000 as activating as 101 for one block and 102 for the other block. Then confirm that you can drive a train using the DR5000 though block 101 from the previous block to the next block and the same for block 102 and that 101 and 102 show as occupied at the correct time.

 

If this proves to operate completely correctly then pose a question on the iTrain forum complete with the track plan and we can look at any iTrain issues there.

[model-trains]

Wiring error found, thanks for your help.  

[model-trains]

iTrain appears to work fine on the schematic layout.

 

I have plotted all wires and traced them and cannot find the problem. It is so frustrating, this one issue is holding everything up.

 

Tomorrow there is only one thing to do, disconnect all wires one end and rewire again, one by one, within the reverse loops, DR5013's in and out, and DCC Bus connections.

 

Wish me luck guys. I gotta find the problem. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by model-trains

[WIMorrison]

check that you actually have insulated joiners that have no continuity across the join at each end of the reversing section of track - dont just check visibly, or even think 'well i put them in, actually check electrically

[model-trains]

Hi Iain

 

Done all that, even placed small piece of Imasking tape at each one and visually followed each track length end to end.

 

Plotted ever dropper from above, then double checked every dropper dimension below, logged them in excel and then checked them again.

 

It has to be something simple, something so stupid, stripping reverse loop wires back and starting again seems to make sense now, I am just going over the same ground, over and over again, that doesn't help fault finding either, I  will swap the dr5013s round when I rewire them.

 

I have plotted and checked all other droppers also and didn't find a fault. Hopefully the problem will disappear on the rewire of the rev/loops and I don't have to strip them back also.

 

Fingers crossed.

[WIMorrison]

but have you checked the isolation electrically using a continuity meter?

[model-trains]

15 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

but have you checked the isolation electrically using a continuity meter?

 

Nope, I purchased a Voltcraft VC820 from Rapid at start but I have never used it, not sure what settings it should be on.

 

All loop system wires now disconnected and hanging from dropper positions, later today I will add them back one by one. Where I have 5 in one reverse loop block and 4 in the other, I will only add one at a time and test each time.

 

Thanks for your help

[WIMorrison]

The most important tool in a railway modellers toolbox is a multimeter as that is the way you find wiring errors and faults on the layout.

 

You have a meter and should have learned years ago how to use it - now it is imperative that you do to be able to trace the fault properly. You can’t see electricity, you can’t see breaks inside cables, you cannot see broken down or failing insulation but a multimeter will enable you to see those faults.

 

a quick look on YouTube will shows many, many excellent videos on how to use them - I suggest that you need to spend some time looking at them rather than ‘fault finding’ without using it which hasn’t proved successful for quite a while

[model-trains]

I will do that Iain

 

Not getting anywhere, I have removed ALL wires to the Reverse Loops.

 

Checked every one, one by one and only replaced 1 pair of wires for each loop.

 

Put loco on RLB101 outer loop, iTrain screen correctly shows, loco in block, block highlighted red and first Feedback light on. Screen and layout match at this stage.

 

Loco leaves block RLB101 and enters block SF-P1 

- RLB remains Red (error)

- SF-P1 is purple (error)

- Feedbacks F18 & F17 in SF-P1 block work fine on screen

 

Reverse the loco from SF-P1 to RLB101

Everything screen and layout set correctly.

Loco run in SF-P1 and RLB and feedback are flashing (error)

Loco leaves SF-P1 enters Rev Loop Block RLB101

- SF-P1 clears (correct)

- SF-P1 feedbacks worked (correct)

RLB101 block is Red (correct)

RLB Feedback Block is Red (correct)

 

When I tried it again the results were similar but o the return journey the SF-P1 block didn't release (error)

 

Very strange, the loco works fine, there is power to the track I used a track tester for that first.

 

I am only using the two blocks and the rest is not connected to board 2

 

I tried RLB102 inner also and although the loco ran fine there were more errors similar to those on the outer loop.

 

In theory I am not testing the reverse loop at this point, as I am only using two block and trying to get iTrain on screen to match what is happening on the track.

 

I did wonder whether to take off and re-check the DR5013's

 

Paul

 

[WIMorrison]

Paul

 

i have suggested before and I suggest it again that you do not try to fix problem on the layout using iTrain as the diagnostic tool.

 

you must get the layout running correctly with locos going everywhere when running them manually, including you reversing loops. 
 

once you have the track running correctly then you can connect iTrain into the mix and get it to attach to the feedbacks.

 

currently you ‘seem’ to have a wiring or track connection problem and you cannot hope to make anything work that layers on top of this when you have such a fundamental issue.

 

start walking before you start running, currently you are trying to do everything at once and consequently cannot see the faults because too many things are potential sources of errors - simplify the problem, take automation away and just get the track working correctly first.