Cholsey & Moulsford (Change for Wallingford)

[Nick Gough]

48 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

I'm amazed you can still gain access to Platform 1 (Down Main).  At most stations in the Thames Valley the DM platforms are closed to public access as is the UM side of the islands behind robust fences.  That even applies at Slough now!

There is a gate in the subway, at Cholsey, that's normally shut but never locked (when I've visited).

At the weekend it was wide open!

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

There were a number of things I wanted to check at the station.

 

The buffer stop for the branch bay is set back from the end wall of the main station building:

But how far?

 

Well - it's 15 feet to the rear of the buffer beam:

The adjacent spear fencing is made up of two & half standard 6' lengths plus three intermediate 2" square posts.

At last I know exactly where to position @checkrail's spare buffer kit that he kindly let me have.

 

The left hand chimney:

Is positioned above the corner of the waiting room and gentlemen's lavatories. 

According to the plans it only served a fireplace in the parcel's office on the ground floor.

 

The platform level plan suggests that the flue passed through the wall at first floor level, but with a small projection into the waiting room:

Is this correct?

Yes - it does:

 

The chimney breast on the other side of the waiting room is still there though the fireplace is sealed:

 

And I wanted to confirm that the chimney actually sits at the junction of the two outside walls, where two slopes of the roof meet:

 

Yes - with plenty of lead flashing.

Nick don't forget that the stop block has been moved back away from the station building and the fence is a modern addition.

[Nick Gough]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Nick don't forget that the stop block has been moved back away from the station building and the fence is a modern addition.

Thanks Mike - that nearly caught me out!

 

Would the stop block have been right up against the building originally?

 

I had seen photos with the spear fence, from the last years of the branch, and assumed it was always there.

[MrWolf]

The cutout in the concrete pad had me thinking it may have cleared the end of the stop block perhaps? It would be interesting to see if there is another cutout in the concrete under the pile of leaves to the right.

[Nick Gough]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

The cutout in the concrete pad had me thinking it may have cleared the end of the stop block perhaps? It would be interesting to see if there is another cutout in the concrete under the pile of leaves to the right.

That does sound logical.

There appears to be a cutout on both sides in this photo:

[Nick Gough]

It looks like someone else didn't know that the spear fencing was installed later:

 

There's a couple of other points on this painting:

 

The angled bricks on top of the plinth should be stone blocks:

 

The painting scheme for the window doesn't match the one at Kidderminster:

 

That is - no horizontal 'dark stone' line below the top pair of glass panes.

 

Of course Kidderminster is a preserved reproduction, so either version might be correct?

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Thanks Mike - that nearly caught me out!

 

Would the stop block have been right up against the building originally?

 

I had seen photos with the spear fence, from the last years of the branch, and assumed it was always there.

 I suspect that it probably had the sleepers against the concrete area you have a photo of.  The beam of the stop block is clearly - in old photos - not against the wall of the building but from what can be made out of its position that would fit with teh sleeprs being against that concrete.

 

Some photos indicate there was a short wooden fence, or possibly it was a gate?, off the end of the building but quite short, definitely not extending as far as theh present fence.  It's worth looking on the 'net as i found several photos showoing the earlier (presumably original) position of the stop block.  There is one photo  I found which shows very clearly a lamp (of the stop block type) on a post on the platform edge presumably slightly short of the stop block itself.

 

Added  is the oldest view I have of Cholsey & Moulsfird station - on a postcard posted in Wallingford on the morning of 16 April 1911 and it shows - and might be visible on enlarging the pic below but I have a much larger original scan of it  - the short section of unclimbable  (aka 'spear') tron fence which appears in that painting however it is only a single section of fence and not two as shown in the painting

 

Unfortunately I did not take a photo of the stop block on either of my visits to Cholsey in  April and December 1964

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[RJS1977]

On 18/07/2023 at 09:36, Nick Gough said:

Anybody got a spare can of paint or three?

 

I believe it is on the "to do" list - both Mark Hopwood and Peter Hendy changed trains at Cholsey when they came to open the canopy at Wallingford station two years ago and were both horrified to see the condition of Cholsey station.

 

(Unfortunately the C&WR ticket office door was repainted by GWR contractors a few years ago when it shouldn't have been! One of our volunteers - a GWR employee - got permission to paint the door in heritage GWR colours. A few months later, GWR's contractors came along and repainted all the doors in GWR green - including ours!)

 

We are currently (and have been since the pandemic!) waiting for Network Rail to finish redecorating the inside of our ticket office so we can reopen it.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 I suspect that it probably had the sleepers against the concrete area you have a photo of.  The beam of the stop block is clearly - in old photos - not against the wall of the building but from what can be made out of its position that would fit with teh sleeprs being against that concrete.

 

Some photos indicate there was a short wooden fence, or possibly it was a gate?, off the end of the building but quite short, definitely not extending as far as theh present fence.  It's worth looking on the 'net as i found several photos showoing the earlier (presumably original) position of the stop block.  There is one photo  I found which shows very clearly a lamp (of the stop block type) on a post on the platform edge presumably slightly short of the stop block itself.

 

Added  is the oldest view I have of Cholsey & Moulsfird station - on a postcard posted in Wallingford on the morning of 16 April 1911 and it shows - and might be visible on enlarging the pic below but I have a much larger original scan of it  - the short section of unclimbable  (aka 'spear') tron fence which appears in that painting however it is only a single section of fence and not two as shown in the painting

 

Unfortunately I did not take a photo of the stop block on either of my visits to Cholsey in  April and December 1964

 

I've seen a few photos (not of Cholsey) showing a short length of fence along the terminal platform edge, which I have assumed to be to stop folk falling down behind the beam of the stop block. That's what I'm planning to do at Pentowan, anyway...

[RJS1977]

On 18/07/2023 at 19:05, The Stationmaster said:

Nick don't forget that the stop block has been moved back away from the station building and the fence is a modern addition.

 

I was going to say that that AIUI track in the bay was lifted when the connection from the branch was removed in 1981, and was relaid by C&WR (with the run-round loop being installed later), so there is no guarantee that the buffer stop is in the same place as originally. 

[Nick Gough]

15 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 I suspect that it probably had the sleepers against the concrete area you have a photo of.  The beam of the stop block is clearly - in old photos - not against the wall of the building but from what can be made out of its position that would fit with teh sleeprs being against that concrete.

 

Some photos indicate there was a short wooden fence, or possibly it was a gate?, off the end of the building but quite short, definitely not extending as far as theh present fence.  It's worth looking on the 'net as i found several photos showoing the earlier (presumably original) position of the stop block.  There is one photo  I found which shows very clearly a lamp (of the stop block type) on a post on the platform edge presumably slightly short of the stop block itself.

 

Added  is the oldest view I have of Cholsey & Moulsfird station - on a postcard posted in Wallingford on the morning of 16 April 1911 and it shows - and might be visible on enlarging the pic below but I have a much larger original scan of it  - the short section of unclimbable  (aka 'spear') tron fence which appears in that painting however it is only a single section of fence and not two as shown in the painting

 

Unfortunately I did not take a photo of the stop block on either of my visits to Cholsey in  April and December 1964

 

 

Thanks Mike - I can zoom in and see the fence in this view (behind a large trunk?). Could the large white area, immediately to its right, be a poster board?

 

I think this is the photo you mean with the lamp?

 

 

It looks to me that the post might be a fence post - the bracket behind the lamp looks like it could be supporting a fence panel, with a tiny piece of the first 'spear' shewing in the bottom right corner?

 

Compared with what's there now:

The post is different (plain square tube) but it has, what looks to me, to be a lamp bracket in a similar position to the lamp in the old photo?

 

These are a couple of scanned slide photos I took in 1986/7:

Although they are not that clear I think the fence posts look more like the one in the old photo.

Also the platform paving slabs seen here have since been replaced:

 

The thought occurs - presumably the old fence removed at the time of the re-surfacing?

Were the fence panels (or new ones) put back afterwards, but with new (standard square steel tube) posts, rather than the originals, and with  the old fittings?

Thus giving the appearance that the fence is a modern installation.

 

 

[Nick Gough]

9 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I believe it is on the "to do" list - both Mark Hopwood and Peter Hendy changed trains at Cholsey when they came to open the canopy at Wallingford station two years ago and were both horrified to see the condition of Cholsey station.

 

(Unfortunately the C&WR ticket office door was repainted by GWR contractors a few years ago when it shouldn't have been! One of our volunteers - a GWR employee - got permission to paint the door in heritage GWR colours. A few months later, GWR's contractors came along and repainted all the doors in GWR green - including ours!)

 

We are currently (and have been since the pandemic!) waiting for Network Rail to finish redecorating the inside of our ticket office so we can reopen it.

 

The stairwells at Buggleskelly Cholsey could do with some TLC as well:

 

 

[Mike_Walker]

Even the dog doesn't look impressed!  😁

[The Stationmaster]

Her's an enlargement off my oroginal scan of the postac card and nor t the compressed version I posted.  I haven't gota clue what the very ornated thung is at the end of the building and the things that look like handrails are equally inexplicable but might be fixed t  the large pale area?

 

Note the end of the fence desb n't havea lamo bracket  and I reckoon that it is probably a bit shorter than the preseent fence. The large wooden box witha sloping top looks like a large toolbox but might have been used for tools. and maybe oil cans possibly?

 

 

 

[Nick Gough]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Her's an enlargement off my oroginal scan of the postac card and nor t the compressed version I posted.  I haven't gota clue what the very ornated thung is at the end of the building and the things that look like handrails are equally inexplicable but might be fixed t  the large pale area?

 

Note the end of the fence desb n't havea lamo bracket  and I reckoon that it is probably a bit shorter than the preseent fence. The large wooden box witha sloping top looks like a large toolbox but might have been used for tools. and maybe oil cans possibly?

 

 

 

 

Thank you for posting this. It shows some fascinating details. I have this photo in the Wallingford branch book, but it's not possible to blow it up this clearly.

 

Regarding the ornate object - I think this might be a Victorian self-weighing machine - penny-in-the-slot type:

https://collection.maas.museum/object/54861

The two handrails could be for getting on and off this?

 

It also looks like there is another (chocolate?) machine between this and the two ladies.

[Tallpaul69]

Hi All,

I have been following this discussion with interest as it has a bearing on how I might arrange the buffer stop area on the bay platform at Bradenham. 

In my ignorance of such matters, I had been planning to maximise the length of my bay by having a stop block attached to the building wall at the end of the bay rather than  a full blown buffer stop as shown at Cholsey, but maybe the GWR & GC rules did not allow this?

 

Any thoughts welcome!

Cheers

Paul  

[MrWolf]

The weighing machine looks like a version of this Salter example:

 

https://www.kiwinorth.co.nz/salter-public-weighing-scale

 

[RJS1977]

Incidentally, the right hand (western) chimney only goes down as far as platform level, and the fireplace (in the C&WR ticket office) is on the diagonal across the corner of the room.

[Nick Gough]

21 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi All,

I have been following this discussion with interest as it has a bearing on how I might arrange the buffer stop area on the bay platform at Bradenham. 

In my ignorance of such matters, I had been planning to maximise the length of my bay by having a stop block attached to the building wall at the end of the bay rather than  a full blown buffer stop as shown at Cholsey, but maybe the GWR & GC rules did not allow this?

 

Any thoughts welcome!

Cheers

Paul  

 

I think it would be unlikely that the the beam of the stop block would be attached to the wall of the building since there would not be anything to restrain a possible collision, and incursion into the building.

 

A quick look through my photo collection suggests that many bay lines end with a short section of platform intervening before the building. Under the surface, this would allow for a large lump of concrete (or similar) or for the rear diagonal bracing rails, normally seen at the back of a stop block, to be buried within.

 

These were platforms 2 & 3 (the Berks & Hants bays) at Reading General before re-building:

The original platform 3 stop block has been replaced and moved - as seen in the next photo. Looking from behind the screen you can see the gap from the building:

This also allows access to platforms 1 and 2:

 

There was also a similar arrangement for bay platform 7:

In the island between the Up Main and Down Relief platforms.

 

There is/was a similar gap at Slough for the Windsor bay:

(Including a small forest)

 

For Bradenham I would suggest Princes Risborough and High Wycombe are the places to look at - the only stations with bays on the GW&GC. Both of these have had new stop blocks in recent years - moved away from the dead end, but both were built with a space between them and the buildings:

 

High Wycombe:

 

Princes Risborough:

 

If you want to maximise the length of your bay you could consider Kingswear, where the bay is to the rear of the building so the stop block position wouldn't be an issue:

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Nick Gough
Photo in wrong place

[Nick Gough]

17 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

Incidentally, the right hand (western) chimney only goes down as far as platform level, and the fireplace (in the C&WR ticket office) is on the diagonal across the corner of the room.

I have never seen inside this room. Is the fireplace blocked off like in the waiting rooms? I don't suppose there is anything of interest left in the room?

 

It's interesting that it had a fireplace though it is marked on the architects plan as 'Stores'. 

In practice I believe that it was, at least for a few years, used as the station master's office.

[The Stationmaster]

On 21/07/2023 at 16:25, Nick Gough said:

 

I think it would be unlikely that the the beam of the stop block would be attached to the wall of the building since there would not be anything to restrain a possible collision, and incursion into the building.

 

 

The original platform 3 stop block has been replaced and moved - as seen in the next photo. Looking from behind the screen you can see the gap from the building:

 This also allows access to platforms 1 and 2:

 

 

 

 

The Platform 1 stop block seen in the photo above is in its later position after the platform end had been infilled thus shortening the usable platform length.  I believe that this was done to allow access through the new gates seen in the background.  I think this was probably done at about the time the Fish Dock at the other end of the Down Main Platform was removed in order to create Platform 4A which effectively removed the Post Office access at that end.

 

The photo of Platform 7 shows it after the original buffer screen had been removed and also after the bracing between the two lots of awnings had also been rbeen renewed.  I think the removal of the buffer screen on No.7 might well have followed the incident involvcing a DMU over-running the stop block on No.6 bay and riding over the top of it before coming to rest.

 

 The latter was an inherent danger when standard stop blocks were built into bay platform end walls because it allowed anything running into the block to climb up over it (the same happened in the bay at Twyford).  However that might have been preferable to an even worse shock to the train than  running head on into a vertical platform wall

Edited July 22, 2023 by The Stationmaster
typos

[Tallpaul69]

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

I think it would be unlikely that the the beam of the stop block would be attached to the wall of the building since there would not be anything to restrain a possible collision, and incursion into the building.

 

A quick look through my photo collection suggests that many bay lines end with a short section of platform intervening before the building. Under the surface, this would allow for a large lump of concrete (or similar) or for the rear diagonal bracing rails, normally seen at the back of a stop block, to be buried within.

 

These were platforms 2 & 3 (the Berks & Hants bays) at Reading General before re-building:

The original platform 3 stop block has been replaced and moved - as seen in the next photo. Looking from behind the screen you can see the gap from the building:

This also allows access to platforms 1 and 2:

 

There was also a similar arrangement for bay platform 7:

In the island between the Up Main and Down Relief platforms.

 

There is/was a similar gap at Slough for the Windsor bay:

(Including a small forest)

 

For Bradenham I would suggest Princes Risborough and High Wycombe are the places to look at - the only stations with bays on the GW&GC. Both of these have had new stop blocks in recent years - moved away from the dead end, but both were built with a space between them and the buildings:

 

High Wycombe:

 

Princes Risborough:

 

If you want to maximise the length of your bay you could consider Kingswear, where the bay is to the rear of the building so the stop block position wouldn't be an issue:

 

Thanks Nick,

I think Reading platform 2 is the effect I am after, I just didn't describe it very well:-

I meant the wall at the end of the bay rather than the wall of the building! My building wall will be several scale feet from the end of the bay!

Cheers, Paul

[RJS1977]

5 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

I have never seen inside this room. Is the fireplace blocked off like in the waiting rooms? I don't suppose there is anything of interest left in the room?

 

It's interesting that it had a fireplace though it is marked on the architects plan as 'Stores'. 

In practice I believe that it was, at least for a few years, used as the station master's office.

 

The fireplace is blocked, but unlike the waiting rooms there is (or was, last time I was in there - pre-pandemic!) still a fireplace surround and mantelpiece.  Other than that, nothing really of interest - there was a cupboard to the right of the door as you enter (that we kept tickets and things in), a couple of tables, two chairs (all decidedly non-heritage), a fridge, and a microwave.  Incidentally, the fridge had previously been in the (old) cafe at our station in Wallingford (at that time in the Cambrian coach) and was moved to Cholsey by train as taking it by road would have involved carrying it up the stairs (and the train was going anyway!). There was also a telephone directly connected to Reading Panel for us to use in the event that one of our trains derailed and fouled the Up Relief.

 

We did have plans to fit the room out properly as a heritage-style ticket office (the volunteer who painted the door had managed to source a ticket window for us to use) but we had to wait for NR/GWR to fix a leak in the roof first, then the room needed to be redecorated, which we're still waiting for before we can reopen it, let alone "heritage" it. 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

 

There are some of the short lengths of fence I was alluding to earlier.

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

There are some of the short lengths of fence I was alluding to earlier.

All later additions =definitely post 1960s and probably '70s'80s as well.  Although in some cases they replaced 'wrap around' screens, of varying sizes,  behind the stop blocks.

 

While Platform 2 retains the original stop block Platform 3 at Reading had the original stop block removed when it was extended to take Voyagers and a new friction type stop block was installed to replace it - some of it can be seen in a couple of the photos.